THE REPORT, buttoned up (SCO Thread v. 33)

[glenwo2]

What I think is getting lost in this tribal times of ya verse them is that people are so entrenched in their team that no one is looking at the future.

I thought 2020 is in the future? People seem to be focused on that, you know?

People only care about winning today.

Of course they do. Qui-Gon Jinn's Motto of "Concentrate on the Here and Now" isn't just a Star Wars movie line.

It's all about winning against the opposition party right now.

Conservatives blow the Russian deal off because it helped their guy.

Uhh noooo.....they "blow the Russian deal off" because THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION.

Good fucking lord, man....

And when the Russians want to back Bernie and release GOP information you’ll all be right with us demanding an investigation

IF there was actual evidence, sure.

But if it was just words (he said, he said, she said...) with no proof, I wouldn't "be right with us demanding an investigation".

 

[cincymma79]

Do you believe this?
"Depending on how you count, roughly a dozen separate instances of obstruction of justice are contained in the Mueller report. The president dangled pardons in front of witnesses to encourage them to lie to the special counsel, and directly ordered people to lie to throw the special counsel off the scent."
J. W. Verret
Professor of law at George Mason University Antonin Scalia Law School

Deez nuts
Stfu
This isn’t it
Stop being a douche
Guy I saw at Walmart

 

[glenwo2]

Trump will die in prison.

He will die of laughter first....

if he ever saw your post. <45>

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I'm talking about the people that wouldn't testify and used the excuse of a perjury trap. Did they have to worry about Mueller asking them roundabout questions trying to elicit lies or were there plenty of straight to the point questions they couldn't answer honestly without incriminating themselves?

Which people are you referring to?

 

[Ophydian]

I thought 2020 is in the future? People seem to be focused on that, you know?




Of course they do. Qui-Gon Jinn's Motto of "Concentrate on the Here and Now" isn't just a Star Wars movie line.

It's all about winning against the opposition party right now.



Uhh noooo.....they "blow the Russian deal off" because THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION.

Good fucking lord, man....



IF there was actual evidence, sure.

But if it was just words (he said, he said, she said...) with no proof, I wouldn't "be right with us demanding an investigation".

I thought 2020 is in the future? People seem to be focused on that, you know?




Of course they do. Qui-Gon Jinn's Motto of "Concentrate on the Here and Now" isn't just a Star Wars movie line.

It's all about winning against the opposition party right now.



Uhh noooo.....they "blow the Russian deal off" because THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION.

Good fucking lord, man....



IF there was actual evidence, sure.

But if it was just words (he said, he said, she said...) with no proof, I wouldn't "be right with us demanding an investigation".

Your response is exactly the short sightedness I am talking about. I say Russia investigation and you are focused on “no collusion”. Thanks Trump. Plain English. The Russians meddled in our election and are going to do so again. Their goal is not to get an R in office but to destabilize our form of democracy. Trump has no desire to put measures into place to stop future instances because it legitimizes the idea Russia helped him win.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

That's the keypoint that's "conveniently" being left out :

Those 10 possible obstruction situations WERE INVESTIGATED ALREADY BY MUELLER!!

And if he can't come to a conclusion of Obstruction, then guess what? There is no obstruction then.

A simple case of Enough Proof or NOT Enough Proof (to prove Obstruction), and Mueller said the latter.

That's not what he said. He specifically said if he could clear Trump he would and that he was not exonerating him. He provided the conclusions of the investigation and is leaving it to others to prosecute/impeach if/when it's appropriate.

 

[Strychnine]

Actually, Graham said that he didn't care what they talked about. Msn putting words in Graham's mouth here.

Anyway, it seems that the complaint by the Left is now is that Trump OBSTRUCTED Mueller from doing his probe / investigation. Which is not true at all and Graham (as much as I'm not a big fan of him) is correctly pointing that out.

Trump could've indeed ended the Probe at ANY TIME by firing Mueller but he didn't so he can't be accused of obstructing the investigation.

As far as McGhan goes, I don't know much about what transpired there but the fact that nothing prevented Mueller from doing his "work" is what the bottom line is, which is Graham's point.

All in all, the only way President Trump will leave office is voting him out or he leaves on his own.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I don't know if she's wrong or right but it's hilarious to hear her say this after I've heard former FBI\CIA the same about her situation.

Not that those FBI/CIA sources are as credible as the Mueller report but maybe you can compare the two when it comes to the conspiracy charges. The obstruction charges are pretty clear and he wasn't indicted because of DoJ regarding sitting Presidents.

 

[glenwo2]

That's not what he said. He specifically said if he could clear Trump he would and that he was not exonerating him. He provided the conclusions of the investigation and is leaving it to others to prosecute/impeach if/when it's appropriate.

Okay....he provided the CONCLUSION that that there was no Collusion. (remember that part?)

So if there was no collusion (or conspiracy, as they like to refer to it also as) with a foreign gov't, there was no alleged crime (Treason) that was committed.

No Crime, then there was nothing being Obstructed.

The Dems have since shifted the Obstruction-attempt to the "Oh! He prevented Mueller from doing his job" when it isn't true.

 

[glenwo2]

Your response is exactly the short sightedness I am talking about. I say Russia investigation and you are focused on “no collusion”. Thanks Trump. Plain English. The Russians meddled in our election and are going to do so again. Their goal is not to get an R in office but to destabilize our form of democracy. Trump has no desire to put measures into place to stop future instances because it legitimizes the idea Russia helped him win.

The fuck!?!?

I'm focused on "no collusion" 'cause FOR 2 FUCKING YEARS, THAT'S ALL I'VE HEARD ABOUT.. SO EXCUSE ME, BUDDY.

 

[glenwo2]

All in all, the only way President Trump will leave office is voting him out or he leaves on his own.

+100000000000000000.

Exactly.

Either he gets voted out by a Democrat ('cause I don't see *any* Republican with a chance in hell of "Primary'ing" him) OR he leaves due to Term-Limits.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Which people are you referring to?

First of all Trump. There were plenty of direct questions about the investigation he could have answered. If he couldn't answer them truthfully without incriminating himself or if he's such a pathological liar he can't sit through an interview without lying doesn't make it a perjury trap.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Okay....he provided the CONCLUSION that that there was no Collusion. (remember that part?)

So if there was no collusion (or conspiracy, as they like to refer to it also as) with a foreign gov't, there was no alleged crime (Treason) that was committed.

No Crime, then there was nothing being Obstructed.

The Dems have since shifted the Obstruction-attempt to the "Oh! He prevented Mueller from doing his job" when it isn't true.

There was an ongoing investigation he attempted to impede on various occasions.

 

[Strychnine]

First of all Trump. There were plenty of direct questions about the investigation he could have answered. If he couldn't answer them truthfully without incriminating himself or if he's such a pathological liar he can't sit through an interview without lying doesn't make it a perjury trap.

This^
If you can't sit down for questioning without lying through it, then that's on you.

 

[glenwo2]

There was an ongoing investigation he attempted to impede on various occasions.

"attempted" being the keyword, though (if it was true).

The Dems, however, are saying he DID Obstruct.

How can they say that someone obstructed when the actual act ultimately never occurred?



I said this before and I'll say it again :

A President has Advisors to save him from making bad choices by putting their foot down in the face of the POTUS.

And if what is stated is true, he was indeed saved from those bad choices.

Otherwise, the case of Obstruction WOULD be true, hands down.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

First of all Trump. There were plenty of direct questions about the investigation he could have answered. If he couldn't answer them truthfully without incriminating himself or if he's such a pathological liar he can't sit through an interview without lying doesn't make it a perjury trap.

Oh OK. Who else? You mentioned people, as if there were several examples.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

This^
If you can't sit down for questioning without lying through it, then that's on you.

Sure. I've previously agreed that nothing in a prosecutor's behavior excuses perjury by a witness and that those who lied to Mueller deserve the jail sentences they received. That is of course not the question, but whether it is a prosecutor's job to create process crimes, which is the only place Mueller found success.

 

[andnowweknow]

Sure. I've previously agreed that nothing in a prosecutor's behavior excuses perjury by a witness and that those who lied to Mueller deserve the jail sentences they received. That is of course not the question, but whether it is a prosecutor's job to create process crimes, which is the only place Mueller found success.

The only place he found success? He laid out an utterly obvious case of obstruction of justice and only didn't indict because of DOJ policy that he could indict a sitting president.

 

[Ophydian]

The fuck!?!?

I'm focused on "no collusion" 'cause FOR 2 FUCKING YEARS, THAT'S ALL I'VE HEARD ABOUT.. SO EXCUSE ME, BUDDY.

But that’s not what I am talking about. You understand Russia meddled in our election in 2016, 18 and looks like 20?

I say Russia
You say No Collusion
She lost get over it

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

The only place he found success? He laid out an utterly obvious case of obstruction of justice and only didn't indict because of DOJ policy that he could indict a sitting president.

No, he didn't and that's why he decided not to recommend an obstruction charge be brought. Had he brought such a charge it would not have gone anywhere.

The Russian collusion case was so poorly founded that it is embarrassing the special investigator was ever given this much power to look into it and that it took so long to realize there was nothing to it. Recently the NYT ran an article speculating that the Steele files were themselves a Russian plant. It's embarrassing, but rather than do some soul searching to figure out why they could have got it all so wrong, people are trying to cling onto flimsy process charges the special investigator himself didn't use to recommend charges.

I recommend going after Trump on the economy, trade, foreign affairs, deregulation and this sort of thing rather than the Mueller Report. There's no there there. But if not, and if you somehow really think Trump obstructed justice or was hiding some untoward cooperation with the Russians that Mueller failed to expose, then I think you should call your Congressional representative and push for impeachment.