THE REPORT, buttoned up (SCO Thread v. 33)

[WarDosAnjos]

Anyone shocked by Russia trying to interfere is actually quite funny seeing as how its been done since WWII ended and the Cold War began, and we have been doing it to them.

Its what nations do to each other. Are you aware of how many times Britain did it from the end of the Revolutionary war until after the Civil War? Almost every election...At the end of the War of 1812, almost the entire Wig Party was put on trial for TREASON for colluding with the British and even working with them helping them invade.

Should we be worried? Of course. And steps should be taken to prevent it...but being shocked by this is more shocking than them doing it.

I'm not shocked. I'm just saying it's a big deal and no one seems to talk about it.

 

[glenwo2]

What a time to be alive

Deja vu.


Could've sworn you posted this in another Mueller thread.

 

[National Acrobat]

"The Russia investigation began after the FBI learned that George Papadopoulos had been approached by a Russian agent..."

What is a FISA warrant?

 

[panamaican]

What should the Trump campaign have done?

I'm not saying they should have done anything. It's just a very letter of the law exculpation.

My biggest issue and concern has always been the willingness of Americans to champion foreign government interference in our elections. I said as much during the campaign and after the campaign. I waited for the report to draw any further conclusions. I'm drawing such conclusions now.

The issue of collusion was relevant in the sense of if the Trump campaign helped plan and coordinate the interference because it would have benefitted them. The information I'm getting is more nuanced, from a legal perspective. People were thinking about an active role in undermining our election. Instead, it's more of a passive observation of the undermining of our election.

It just reinforces my original opinion: It's unfortunate the extent to which people will sell out the sovereignty of our elections for what they perceive as personal gain. That's not specific to the Trump campaign but to everyone who was indifferent to what was going on.

It bothered me then when collusion wasn't even the issue. It bothers me now. It just seems like a lack of moral character. You see someone doing something wrong, you say something. You do something. You don't try to share in it.

But that's my personal moral standards. I'm not looking to change anyone's perspective on right vs. wrong.

 

[Jack V Savage]

1. The report found Donald Trump did not collude with Russia.

2. Russia did interfere with the US election.

That first one is not a finding of the report. And the notion that it was wasted resources to get more information about the extent to which they coordinated their activity. I don't see how that position could possibly be justified, and I'd like to see you try.

 

[MFIC]

How did Russia interfere in the election? Was It through social media or another way?

 

[SBJJ]

Trump is the boss of numerous individuals under his direct employ who he gave instructions to obstruct and it only did not happen as they refused him.

Nope. Nothing resulted in obstruction.

 

[glenwo2]

So I assume we're all reading the report. Just the Introduction is extremely informative.

What stood out to me, so far, is that while the Trump campaign didn't actively conspire with the Russians, they were aware of, and expected to benefit from, the Russians intended course of action.

That is the narrowest exculpation ever, a true "letter of the law" situation. Johnny did not kill his wife or conspire with his lover to kill his wife. However, Johnny knew that his lover was going to kill his wife and expected to benefit from her death and his lover expected that she would also benefit from the death of Johnny's wife. However, Johnny is not guilty of murder or of conspiring to commit murder since Johnny has no duty to proactively interfere, report, stop, etc. his lover from committing that crime.

But an exculpation, nonetheless. Looks like even you agree with Mueller's conclusion.

Anything else going forward by the Dems is just Anti-Trump rhetoric for the 2020 elections.

 

[JSnake]

 

[MikeMcMann]

What is a FISA warrant?

"The Russia investigation began after the FBI learned that George Papadopoulos had been approached by a Russian agent..."

 

[Limbo Pete]

Deja vu.


Could've sworn you posted this in another Mueller thread.

I'm continuously impressed by our ongoing political clusterfuck

 

[Jack V Savage]

How did Russia interfere in the election? Was It through social media or another way?

Through illegally hacking communications, disseminating it, and also through social media campaigns.

 

[glenwo2]

I'm continuously impressed by our ongoing political clusterfuck

What we need now is Brock Lesnar to come out of nowhere, shove Barr aside from the podium and say :

I FINALLY GOT TO THE BOTTOM OF IT, AMERICA!!!

 

[panamaican]

I read the same introduction that you claim to have read. Nowhere does that introduction claim that the Trump campaign was aware of the DNC/DCCC hacking in advance. Nowhere does that introduction claim that the Trump campaign was aware the the IRA would shift its social media trolling to focus on the election come mid-2016.

That's interesting and all but that's not what I said that I'd read...so why would you be looking for that?

The campaign was aware of, and expected to benefit from, the ongoing actions of the Russians. For example, from later in the text,

The presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign" or "Campaign")
showed interest in WikiLeaks ' s releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage
candidate Clinton .

Emphasis added.

Welcoming the potential to cause damage indicates awareness that something is going to happen and of its possible effects. That is advance knowledge of an intended course of action. It's not an involvement in the planning, just knowledge of someone else's intent and a hope to benefit from it.

 

[unimackpass]

This isn't a very good argument.

It’s not a argument, it’s a statement. You’ve got some serious issues that have nothing to do with trump, he just causes you just manifest.

Therapy dude, therapy is the issue, not trump.
Anyone else here would be ashamed to show their face around here after being banned not to mention being proven so wrong. You have no shame and believe your own delusion of being smarter than everyone else so you can't give this up

 

[BarryDillon]

It’s not a argument, it’s a statement. You’ve got some serious issues that have nothing to do with trump, he just causes you just manifest.

Therapy dude, therapy is the issue, not trump.
Anyone else here would be ashamed to show their face around here after being banned not to mention being proven so wrong. You have no shame and believe your own delusion of being smarter than everyone else so you can't give this up

This also isn't any kind of argument.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

I'm not shocked. I'm just saying it's a big deal and no one seems to talk about it.

Going by how you made the statements of their finding that Russia did what they did to be a declaration of WAR when its common practice. This tells me that you were unaware of how it always happens, and that we also do it to them...since, our doing it isnt also a declaration of WAR?

You have to keep in mind though why the media has been doing this for 2 years. It was originally done to distract from the release of Vault 52, which showed the media colluding with the Clinton campaign against Sanders...never before has the media ran with a story for even 1/4th the length of this one without any actual evidence before. You are talking about 100s of news outlets doing it, that is a "concerted effort". To run with a non-story for more than a month...

And yes, they should be focused on the actual story, Russian interference, and actually educate the people that it happens all the time. But the news isnt about truth anymore...and that is the story we, the people should be focusing on even more than the Russia one because our media is deliberately tearing us apart with their propaganda and that is helping Russia more than any single other thing going on.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Nope. Nothing resulted in obstruction.

Your lack of understanding of prior obstruction prosecutions is the reason you are wrong.

I cannot help you though as your ignorance has never stopped you before.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm not saying they should have done anything. It's just a very letter of the law exculpation.

My biggest issue and concern has always been the willingness of Americans to champion foreign government interference in our elections. I said as much during the campaign and after the campaign. I waited for the report to draw any further conclusions. I'm drawing such conclusions now.

The issue of collusion was relevant in the sense of if the Trump campaign helped plan and coordinate the interference because it would have benefitted them. The information I'm getting is more nuanced, from a legal perspective. People were thinking about an active role in undermining our election. Instead, it's more of a passive observation of the undermining of our election.

It just reinforces my original opinion: It's unfortunate the extent to which people will sell out the sovereignty of our elections for what they perceive as personal gain. That's not specific to the Trump campaign but to everyone who was indifferent to what was going on.

It bothered me then when collusion wasn't even the issue. It bothers me now. It just seems like a lack of moral character. You see someone doing something wrong, you say something. You do something. You don't try to share in it.

But that's my personal moral standards. I'm not looking to change anyone's perspective on right vs. wrong.

Somewhat similar situation occurred in 2000 and was handled properly:

https://articles.aplus.com/a/al-gore-illegal-campaign-materials-2000-colbert

 

[panamaican]

But an exculpation, nonetheless. Looks like even you agree with Mueller's conclusion.

Anything else going forward by the Dems is just Anti-Trump rhetoric for the 2020 elections.

I don't agree or disagree with them. I'm reading them, I'm not in a position to evaluate them.

My concern during the election, and I typed many, many words to that effect, was that it was obvious that a foreign government was interfering in our election and it troubled me that Americans were okay with it. I opted to wait for the report before going on any further about what I perceived as a lack of national integrity. The report happens to reinforce that concern of mine.