The real reason Jones appears to be slowing down

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by djason1988, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. djason1988 Brown Belt

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    Jones is the same as he's always been, and even steadily made significant improvements to his game. Instead, we need to look at his opposition.

    When Jones was coming up, he was a genetic freak with crazy length and reflexes plus a solid wrestling background. At the time, lhw was ran by a declining "old guard" consisting of dudes in their mid-late 30's, all with tons of mileage and injuries.

    His only win against another elite young gun before the title was Bader, and it's safe to say at this point that Bader wouldn't really hit his stride for many years, and honestly may still not UFC caliber.

    After getting the belt, his first young up-and-comer was Gus, and that was a heavily contentious fight where Jones took more damage than his opponent.

    After that, he started going through his personal troubles and fought once a year for the next 5 years: glover (who was almost 40), cormier (a close fight against another late 30's who he had substantial height and reach on), OSP (who's never been elite and was a tune up fight), and Cormier again (who is obviously even older now, and Jones popped for steroids).

    Afterwards, he faces the ghost of Gustaffson and them two MW (one of which arguably beat him) before Reyes.

    Fact is, Jones has rarely had to fight another young athletic fighter, and the couple times he has, he was proven very mortal. He's just simply not that skilled in the technical realm (at least compared to other champs), relying on his physical advantages to win fights.

    Edit: a lot of people are mentioning age as a factor.

    Jones is 32.

    For reference, ferguson is 36, khabib is 31, adesanya is 30, stipe is 37, usman is 32, mcgregor is 31, Cejudo is 33, and the list goes on.

    These guys have all been training in some form of combat sport most their lives. Jones is right in that peak zone.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  2. TheJohnnyWalkerEra Black Belt

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    I think it's pretty obvious that he's taking less PEDs
     
  3. djason1988 Brown Belt

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    I will say I was surprised at how much stronger Reyes appeared to be in the clinch. That said, it isn't like Jones has significantly slowed any.
     
  4. Hirashin This is not a profession Banned

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    Mileage and usada. He lost a lot of weapons from his arsenal too.
     
  5. djason1988 Brown Belt

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    I disagree about mileage, he fought once a year for 5 years, and rarely got hit. He's still fairly young by the sports standards and very much in his physical prime. Also don't recall him having any serious injuries in training. If he was in wars or getting ko'd, I could see it, but that just isn't the case.
     
  6. TheToqueville Banned Banned

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    Yeah, I mean its not like people get older or anything, right TS?


    Or battle damage after 13 years of fighting legends would add up or anything.


    Keep crying about the GOAT, but I can promise you your'e not fooling anyone. That hate is real, and you're a perfect example.
     
  7. legkicktko Only the Strong Survive

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    USADA reading this thread like...
    [​IMG]
     
  8. ConorFacts Banned Banned

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    Wrestling Background, 10 years Training for Champion round fight, alcohol & cocaine
     
  9. moogie101 Brown Belt

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    These new guys are worse than who Jones was destroying. The real answer is he's getting older, mma is a tough game and if course he's now off the peds, sorry obviously I meant he's on a vegan diet. Lol
     
  10. The-AxeMurderer Silver Belt

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    The ref gave Jon a very early warning for eye pokes.

    Probably shook Jon to the core.
     
  11. GrantB13 Black Belt

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    He doesn't use half of his old techniques anymore. He's become just a point fighter for the most part.
     
  12. djason1988 Brown Belt

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    I just edited my post with Jones age (32), compared to the ages of several other elite fighters and champs, all between 30 and 38, most with a lifetime of combat sports behind them. Jones is in his prime unless he's harboring major injuries that have gone undisclosed.
     
  13. AnotherOldGuy Black Belt

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    5% of Olympic gold medalists are over the age of 30.
    10% of NBA MVP's are over the age of 30.

    Basically, 90% of humans start to lose athletic ability over the age of 30. Yes, there are exceptions (see 5% of Olympic gold medalists, 10% of NBA MVP's), but they're rare. And you see this in much more competitive sports than MMA (the NBA for instance, if great athletes like that start to slow down over the age of 30 then its hard not to conclude its a factor).

    Beyond that, Jones' style is based on quick and proper reactions, on good reflexes. Its the same as Muhammad Ali (possibly the most gifted fighter ever), as Roy Jones Jr, as Fedor. And reflexes are the first thing to go (actually starting to slow noticeably after the age of 25).

    Jones is getting old. Of course he's slowing down. That doesn't detract from how great he was in his prime.
     
  14. Filibuster White Belt

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    The picogram is finally leaving his system.
     
  15. djason1988 Brown Belt

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    MMA is different due to the time needed to accrue the vast array of skills. Literally every other elite in MMA is in their 30's.
     
  16. ConorFacts Banned Banned

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    this says a lot About MMAs Talent pool or Combat Sports in General.
     
  17. AnotherOldGuy Black Belt

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    Actually it comes down to the old rule of 10 years of top level competition. That's the time in which to accrue the skills without wearing out physically and mentally. For some that means starting earlier and slowing down earlier, others start later and slow down later. How many of the guys you list in their mid-30's have been in top level MMA for more than 10 years? In fact, how many of them have been training MMA even at low levels for more than 10 years?

    As for skills, the array of skills is no higher in MMA than in many sports (hockey for instance, you not only have to have the shooting, puckhandling, skating, teamplay skills, but you have to do it on ice). Its just that for many sports (hockey for instance) they start training as kids. No one is going to start skating and playing hockey at age 20 and then make it into the NHL.

    In fact, MMA's skill set is arguably less than a lot of major sports. Quite a few guys start MMA at the age of 20 and still learn enough skills to make it into the UFC and even become champ. How many guys start playing basketball at age 20 and make it into the NBA? Or start playing baseball at 20 and make it into MLB? Start playing soccer at age 20 and make it to the premier league?

    Team sports have another advantage for older players -- their role can change as they slow down, switching from speed play to play-making. Or even as a role model on the bench. The New York Rangers won the Stanley Cup in part because of what 41 year old Mark Messier did from the bench and in the dressing room between periods - several players credited him with holding them together when it looked like they were going to be eliminated. They'd look down the bench, see Messier looking unconcerned, and relax enough to come back and win.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  18. Relentless chase The one and only

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    Ugh, Glover was 34 bud and was beasting up until Jones fought him, Glover, other than Rumble was IMHO, one of the most feared LHW's coming up. Had a Chin, KO power, and was fast.

    Also age doesn't matter with DC, he's just a different kinda beast.

    You Jones haters are so petty tbh.
     
  19. BenRichards Brown Belt

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    In his mid to late 20s his ability to snap out his spinning elbow while feints on a single leg were razor sharp. Flat out he's not as quick or limber anymore to do that. His days of trips, sweeps, open TDs are behind him. That means the days of hellbows from top position too. It happens. His knees and back are catching up to him

    Despite my sometimes detracting comments towards jones and his legacy, I'll be quick to admit that even without those tools he still has some of the best fight IQ I've seen. He never outpaces himself nor does he allow opponents to corner him.

    It is true though that his opponents in his early run rarely shared his physical attributes if any at all. The second he ran into gus we finally got a look at what happens when he fights someone similar. He won but he looked vulnerable. I said dom would give him hell for this very reason. Guys like Reyes, rakic, and walker are increasing in the division. Guys that fit the mold of what jon created in lhw. He is very much on the wrong side of father time as the benefits that he enjoyed early in his career are now the benefits of his opponents
     
  20. bigconan Gold Belt

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    I don't think it's just one thing...but anyone who says it's not jones' himself that is slowing but just his level of competition is increasing, would be wrong...jones is simply not doing the things he used to do...his variety of striking has gone down big time...he was once a very unorthodox and inventive striker...now, he is rudimentary in his striking...he doesn't throw hardly any punches and when he does, they are slow. he's a plodding type of fighter now. the explosiveness of his strikes is gone. his strength in wrestling is gone.
     

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