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The Problem Isn't Ngannou or His Agent

Mainstream/corporate media still break major news in NFL, MLB, and NBA. I don't think they cover UFC or MMA much, if at all, because it's still largely perceived as a fringe sport.
what major breaking news hasn't been sufficiently covered by mainstream media?

As for golf and tennis players, they don't risk life-long injury and death every time they compete. That's something that a lot of us fans take for granted; fighters legitimately risk death every time they compete. The risk is mitigated of course, but it would not take much for a fighter to die in there. They're all adults and they're making a choice, but it's insulting to think that a guy could die in there for a few thousand dollars.
there are combat athletes risking their health all across the earth every week for alot less than ufc fighters make.

but the main point was that those sports pay out a small % of revenue and it's not covered extensively by the medial.

Lastly, about your last point, I halfway agree. There's nothing illegal or necessarily wrong with how they treat fighters, although I personally think it's greedy and short-sighted. I just believe that it's better for the long-term health and success of the sport if fighters were treated as world-class professional athletes.
the reality is they are not all world class professional athletes. the world class athletes differentiate themselves over time in the cage. many of them are completely replaceable parts. that's just the way it's structured. every card is 12 deep in fights. not all of them are meant to stay in the ufc.

it's just hard to say there's a solid return on investment by paying alot more than they need to right now. and that's the thing that matters. but hey, maybe it would pay for itself over time through quality of product and thus more viewers. i just don't see it. and frankly, people don't inherently appreciate a more talented roster if it doesn't inherently result in better fights.
 
This is just my own (long form) opinion, mixed with personal experiences, so I'll start with that disclaimer.

Over the years, Dana has always found an avenue to downplay a fighter's worth when it comes time to negotiate. The truth is secondary. The Diaz brothers "don't move the needle", for example.

In the case of Francis, I believe it has very little to do with the fighter himself, other than him being told what he's actually worth by people outside of the UFC's influence that do know what he's actually worth, and more to do with Dana & Co's long and rocky history with said people.

Francis is represented by Creative Artists Agency (CAA). For those of you that don't know, CAA has represented a lot of top UFC fighters over the years, starting long before the WME buyout.

Also, CAA and WME have been bitter rivals since the formation of CAA, by five former WME agents, in 1975.

Some of the most notable names on CAA's MMA roster have included, but are not limited to: Cain Velasquez, Rory MacDonald, Georges St. Pierre (and his coach, Firas Zahabi), the Shevchenko's, Joanna Jedrzejczyk, TJ Dillashaw, Kevin Lee, and Tim Kennedy.

Since the beginning of CAA's dealings with UFC, there have been quite a few bumps in the road when it comes time to negotiate a new contract for a lot of CAA's most popular fighters. The biggest example obviously being GSP, and a constant one since they began representing him all the way back in 2008.

Dana recently stated that he places the majority of blame on Ngannou's agent and agency in not easily being able to come to terms on a new deal. His claim is that "this is what happens when you get a guy that's repped by an agency that isn't soley an MMA agency; they have no idea what they're talking about".

However, he doesn't seem to feel the same way about the roster of UFC fighters repped by WME's own talent division, whom had only one fighter on their roster prior to purchasing UFC - Ronda Rousey, signed shortly after her first UFC fight in 2013.

Not to mention that he's dismissing the fact that, although CAA represents all forms of entertainers (as does WME), they have been representing UFC/MMA fighters (prospects, title contenders, and champions) for more than a decade. At this point, CAA is very familiar with the business side of MMA and UFC, and very much know what they are talking about.

In all fairness, Dana has dealt with plenty of agencies outside (and within) the MMA bubble that are content to just ride the current. So, those agents and managers helped set his expectations.

For example, I was lined up to film and distribute a documentary series that featured, individually, some of the cast members from season one of The Ultimate Fighter, well known UFC fighters, as well a number of non-UFC fighters. It was set to begin production shortly after the TUF 1 finale.

The first TUF cast member I had on board was Stephan Bonnar. When Stephan and I first began talking about it, money wasn't really on his mind; he had just been awarded a "six figure contract" and was simply interested in the concept of my proposed series. He was going to be fairly compensated, and he knew that.

A couple months after Stephan and I started talking, he was approached by and signed a deal with a major sports agency - Sports Entertainment Group (SEG). Stephan gave his agent my contact info, and I received a call shortly after.

Stephan had already told me how much he was being paid to fight, so I wasn't surprised when the agent was looking for similar numbers for Stephan's involvement in my series. He was the first MMA fighter that they had signed, and he was going into his first UFC contract, so the agent didn't have much else to base his expectations on. He was content to just ride the current.

I was fine with the numbers from the agent. In fact, they were actually less than what Stephan would've been paid by me for his involvement in the series. Based on my own conversations with UFC, to secure various permissions and licenses for my series - which did eventually get worked out - they barely wiggle, let alone budge. That was when UFC was just getting back on the map, I can't even imagine what those conversations would be like now.

Anyway, I digress, I'm not here to talk about the series, that's just an example to point out, from my own personal experience, the types of "MMA agents" that Dana is comparing CAA to. And although SEG fit that bill, they no longer rep MMA fighters, and haven't for a long time.

Either way, he likes the ones that are willing to just go with the flow to ensure a consistently solid relationship with UFC itself, but CAA has never been that way, and isn't willing to just accept whatever offer hits the table.

Now, one could argue that CAA playing hardball has a negative impact on their fighters, but with the exceptions of a few non-CAA fighters like Ronda, Conor, Anderson, and Jon, one could also argue that it has lead to quite a few of CAA's fighters having rather successful MMA careers (opportunities).


TLDR - The majority of heated negotiations and fall outs with top fighters that the UFC has had over the years have revolved around Dana's 13 plus year pissing match with CAA, further escalated by WME's purchase of UFC; mostly due to CAA being concerned more with their clients' best interests than those of UFC and WME. Which is exactly what anyone, in any industry, should fully expect from the agency that represents them.

Big thanks to anyone that read the whole thing.

Fun Fact: For all of you that are unsure why Dana is giving Jake Paul so much attention - Jake's "Warlock" manager that Dana mentioned recently is UFC's former Chief Financial Officer (2011-2016), and both Jake and his brother, Logan, are clients of WME's talent division. Logan was signed to CAA prior to joining his brother on WME's roster - It's all relative.
Great fucking post, props, man.
 
Don't know if this has been posted in this thread before (or another thread) but I just read this :

https://www.mmamania.com/2022/1/2/2...a-new-ufc-contract-would-have-to-allow-boxing

Ngannou is absolutely delusional on multiple levels.

1) there is no chance UFC sign him to a new contract where they allow him to do boxing.
2) he has close to zero chance against boxers of the level of Wilder or Fury. He has NO boxing record at all (I just checked on boxrec.com)

He is just plain greedy, and this (to me at least) confirms it.
- If you wanna box then RETIRE from MMA and try to work your way up in boxing. I don't think he'll get very far, and certainly there's no reason why he should step into his first boxing match against people of the caliber of Wilder or Fury. Go fight 5 good pro HW boxers and we'll see how you do. MMA and boxing are different.
 
The fight can happen now, they were trying to build interest for that fight and do a cross over fight but UFC wouldn't allow it. Ngannou is calling them out now because he's going to boxing or having boxing fights included in his contract if UFC agrees to that. If they don't he's switching to boxing. Boxing numbers aren't super high because the focus usually is only on the main event. It's not like UFC where they stack the card. 350k are great numbers for boxing events. They already make multi millions for numbers like that and lower.

Yeah they make millions for those numbers (not exactly big tho) because the boxer(s) is actually promoting the fight, they just went with a network for their fight, unlike with the UFC where they are paid by the UFC instead of the other way around it.

Ngannou could go into boxing but (AFAIK) he still needs to win 2 more fights to be able to take a boxing fight, losing his next fight i guess works the same contractually-wise, but after a loss the interest will die hard, Fury and him have been exchanging callouts for a while anyway, specially when the fight wasnt real, and still isnt to be clear, i doubt the UFC will allow it, but i said the same thing with Conor vs Floyd too so i could be dead wrong about this, but with Conor vs Floyd there was the MASSIVE PPV draw that both of them brought to the table, Fury has sold around 1 million, Ngannou has not, not even close

- If you wanna box then RETIRE from MMA and try to work your way up in boxing. I don't think he'll get very far, ad certainly there's no reason why he should step into his first boxing match against people of the caliber of WIlder or Fury. Go fight 5 good pro HW boxers and we'll see how you do.

Retiring isnt the same as being free, he owes the UFC 1 fight and if he wins that one, i think extends it by another one, so fight out his contract and then he can go into boxing.
 
You ruined your credibility in your 2nd line. Dana never said that the Diaz bros don't move the needle. He said that Nick does, but Nate doesn't. And that was true at the time.

Not going to bother reading the rest.
 
giphy.webp
It was actually a decent read bro.

But so is your clip. Those lady dancers are the most graceful on the planet. Like they are on wheels…
 
They did it to themselves when they refused to follow the attempt of a "fighters union" in 2016 impulsed by GSP, Tim Kennedy, Dillasnake, Cowboy and Cain.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2016/11...e-four-other-ufc-stars-announce-launch-of-mma
You mean the alleged fights union that for some reason, involved piece of shit human Bjorn Rebney, who was a promoter notorious for fucking over fighters? There have been attempts to organize fighters, that ain't one of them. Not to mention the stupidity of having two very prominent Trump supporters, even though Trump had the UFC's back against fighters during that time.
 
It's a free market, the pay should drop until there aren't so many fighters.
This is your mistake, assuming mma operates as a free market. It doesn't, it's one of the most dysfunctional legal markets you will find these days. The near unheard of levels of market concentration in mma should be a dead give away.
 
If you wanna box then RETIRE from MMA and try to work your way up in boxing.

Retiring during a UFC promotional contract simply freezes your contract. It will not grant him a release or the ability to sign elsewhere. You are stuck.

Many people don't realize this. What Ngannou is trying to do is fight out his contract, and the UFC are playing dirty to make that difficult. They also will exercise their 'champ clause' provisions to automatically renew him for additional fight(s) despite having completed the date of the term and number of bouts he signed for. It has been widely criticized and may very well be unenforceable, but athletes with a short window for their career cannot afford to fight a multi billion dollar company in court for their freedom.


I don't think he'll get very far, and certainly there's no reason why he should step into his first boxing match against people of the caliber of Wilder or Fury. Go fight 5 good pro HW boxers and we'll see how you do. MMA and boxing are different.


This is Ngannou's business. Who cares if hes got good or bad chances, its what he wants to do. He should not be stuck in an predatory / perpetual contract and should be free to fight out his current deal without unreasonable tolling and contract extensions. Let alone retaliation.
 
Francis getting old.
Be 40 years old before he gets out and does other things.

Tough one for both sides
He's not old at all by HW standards, but I believe his style isn't one that will keep him at championship level for more than 3 years. The freakish athleticism that accompanies his power and makes him so dangerous will go.
 
If a fighter gets into the middle of a power struggle between two agencies the question is why do they choose the rival in the first place? It doesn't make practical sense to be in that position.

The other side is getting a worse contract if represented by the same agency the UFC is owned by, so maybe a 3rd option is better.
CAA was doing business with UFC long before WME ever came into it. CAA is one of the best agencies out there, WME only tops them because they've been around longer, since 1898, originally as the William Morris Agency (WMA), but both are cut from the same cloth. Both groups were trained from the exact blueprint that William Morris originated. They both have extremely good agents and world class connections in every aspect of entertainment.

Dana and CAA have always butted heads simply because they don't let the UFC walk on them like other reps do. WME coming into the mix just added fuel to the fire because they encourage it, due to their own history with CAA, which has absolutely nothing to do with the fight business.

Unfortunatey, on WMA's side, they went to shit when they merged with Endeavor Talent Agency in 2009, and the Endeavor guys essentially got control of operations as part of the merger.

Regardless of the shady ethics that WME currently employs, it completely amazes me that any UFC fighter was willing to sign for representation from WME after they bought UFC. Such a huge and obvious conflict of interest. They can promise the world in entertainment, and deliver on those promises, but you're still going to get a shit fight contract. Not to mention the 10-20 percent commission they are taking from all of your revenue streams. Insanity.

All things considered, if I was a fighter in the UFC, I would 100% want agents like this representing me. Not so much WME at this point, but only because they own UFC; realistically, they do have some of the best agents on the planet.

A lot of these guys coming in are repped by the equivalent of their girlfriend's little brother, who has absolutely zero background in the entertainment or fight industry, and the verbiage in a contract would look like a foreign language to them, but they'll sign anyway because it's the UFC. The UFC walks all over those "agents" and "managers".

GSP signed with CAA way back in the day because he knew that the UFC was taking advantage of him, and wanted a powerful entity on his side that was truly on his side. Plus it opened a lot of doors for his post-fight career. Unfortunately, a lot of fighters, including GSP, are already locked into some pretty wild terms before getting proper representation, so the reps can't really undo the damage that already exists, they can only try to mitigate future damages.

So, if you look at his history with the UFC, compared to most of the former champs, and how things have and are playing out for them, Georges is the only fighter that won the war, and a large part of that can be attributed to his relationship with CAA.
 
He's not old at all by HW standards, but I believe his style isn't one that will keep him at championship level for more than 3 years. The freakish athleticism that accompanies his power and makes him so dangerous will go.

I remember there being some questions about his Birth Certificate but not sure what folks were saying cause at the time I found it absolutely rediculous..

Any word on what people were speculating?

He may have another 5 years up his sleeve <Lmaoo>
 
That was also used for Nate after the Conor fight when there was obvious public/casual interest in Diaz after that fight. They were using old metrics and not the new current interests for him. Diaz was smart to hold out and he got paid his worth and he did prove to be a needle mover even without Conor.
Nate has only headlined with Masdival and Conor. 2 massive ppv draws at the time.

Without those 2 he hasn't even been a co mainer. I think Nate is super popular by social media standards but, like O'Malley, most of his followers aren't buying ppv.
 
I stopped reading at "Diaz brothers don't move the needle." That's super disingenuous.
1. The quote was "Nate Diaz isn't a needle mover."
2. At that time Nate Diaz wasn't moving any needles.
3. The quote came after the lowest rated Fox card ever which was headlined by Diaz vs Benson for LW title and Diaz got wrecked 50-43 on 2 judge's scorecards.

Dana does enough stuff to get flamed all by himself. No need to spin things negatively when he actually tells the truth.
Fair enough, I see your point on that and I apologize for taking a bit of liberty on that one, but I do stand by my overall post points, and still question the needle mover narrative. Nate was definitely moving something, with the fight with Benson being the fifth time he had headlined a card; that one being his second in a row, which was the second time he headlined two in a row.

If you would like to check out the rest of the post, that definitely wasn't a sign of what to expect throughout.
 
I don't think Logan, Jake, and Warlock being associated with WME has anything to do with Dana's comments. Dana is being Dana, and Jake Paul is being Jake Paul. He's been talking shit about Dana since the beginning and Jake Paul is starting to hurt UFC's brand. Yes WME may be owners, but Dana is UFC not WME. Also the Paul's and Warlocks are just clients of WME, they are not WME. Things can and still will get personal regardless of those associations.
Sure, but if WME wasn't benefiting from his banter with Jake, or thought it was hurting the brand, they can and would put a stop to it. Dana loves the UFC and takes it all very personally, but he doesn't have control over the UFC, or what WME will or won't allow.
 
I remember there being some questions about his Birth Certificate but not sure what folks were saying cause at the time I found it absolutely rediculous..

Any word on what people were speculating?

He may have another 5 years up his sleeve <Lmaoo>
I haven't heard anything about that, but that would be hilarious if he was almost 40.
 
You ruined your credibility in your 2nd line. Dana never said that the Diaz bros don't move the needle. He said that Nick does, but Nate doesn't. And that was true at the time.

Not going to bother reading the rest.
You think a guy that had headlined 5 cards at that point doesn't move a needle? I was wrong for including Nick, and I apologize for that. If you're basing the content of an entire post off of one line, how many posts do you actually read in their entirety on here?
 
You think a guy that had headlined 5 cards at that point doesn't move a needle? I was wrong for including Nick, and I apologize for that. If you're basing the content of an entire post off of one line, how many posts do you actually read in their entirety on here?

Not including TUF, Nate headlined 5 of his first 17 UFC fights.

Also not including TUF, Ryan Bader headlined 4 of his 19 UFC fights.

I guess you think Bader was a needle mover?

Must be why they let him go to Bellator despite him winning his last fight... in a headliner. Because he was such a needle mover.
 
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