• Xenforo Cloud is upgrading us to version 2.3.8 on Monday February 16th, 2026 at 12:00 AM PST. Expect a temporary downtime during this process. More info here

The Problem Isn't Ngannou or His Agent

It's the contracts in a sense, but seeing the success that CAA has had with their clients, it's more to do with the majority of fighters having shitty representation. UFC will significantly up a fighter's pay, it's been done time and time again, they just have to be pushed hard enough. Unfortunately, most fighters aren't yet in a position to push, without a union. And most of the ones that are don't have reps that have the balls to push, instead they're worried about retaliation.

In the bigger picture, sure. But in Ngannou's specific case it's just classic his representation has his interest in heart and the employer, the UFC and their contracts really don't.

But to your point, makes you think those rumors about Ali's shady dealings with the UFC that often aren't in the best interest of his fighters are true.
 
Can the mods just merge it all in a big “I hate Dana” thread, please?

Funny thing is people dont even realize if Dana left today nothing would change. Hunter is really the one doing the deals and WME owns the UFC and has everything fixed, the revenue sharing etc. Nothing is changing, Dana is just the face out front who takes the heat but you could stick anyone in there and thing would be same.
 
giphy.webp
Teach me the dance of your people
 
In the bigger picture, sure. But in Ngannou's specific case it's just classic his representation has his interest in heart and the employer, the UFC and their contracts really don't.

But to your point, makes you think those rumors about Ali's shady dealings with the UFC that often aren't in the best interest of his fighters are true.
It's part of the UFC monopoly big plan. Control over the fighters, control over their management, control or suppression of the other leagues.

A fighter who wants to escape the monopoly and a manager who will help him do that are both a problem to fix for them.
 
They pay 18% of revenue to their athletes, this is indisputable at this point.

Fighters are right to be pissed, but their individual fighting with the UFC won't accomplish anything. Until they unionize or the lawsuit forces some kind of legal change, it's going to stay the same.

If one fighter refuses to fight, U Fight Cheap will find 10 others who will.

They did it to themselves when they refused to follow the attempt of a "fighters union" in 2016 impulsed by GSP, Tim Kennedy, Dillasnake, Cowboy and Cain.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2016/11...e-four-other-ufc-stars-announce-launch-of-mma
 
They did it to themselves when they refused to follow the attempt of a "fighters union" in 2016 impulsed by GSP, Tim Kennedy, Dillasnake, Cowboy and Cain.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2016/11...e-four-other-ufc-stars-announce-launch-of-mma
I mostly agree, but the majority of UFC fighters don't believe they are in a position to stand on the other side of the line. Most of them are worried about retaliation in the form of being released from their contract, which is at the sole discretion of the UFC, for any reason they decide. Then the burden of proving retaliation with a clause like that is on the fighter. Muddy waters, really. But do take note that all of those fighters, minus Cowboy, are/were clients of CAA.

Also, the class action lawsuit filed, in part, by Fitch, Quarry, and Le, wrecked any chances of a unionization until that is resolved. And CAL's are never resolved quickly; that one's been going for years.

Realistically, the union attempt presented by GSP and co wasn't organized enough to even be presented at that time. It felt like they sat down for lunch that day, thought it was a good idea, and took it to the media before dinner. Nobody took it seriously, and they had no leverage to pull the lower tiered fighters to their side, which are the fighters that would benefit the most from a union. They also, for some reason, decided to involve Bjorn Rebney. Nothing about their attempt was going to gain any kind of meaningful traction in that moment.
 
This is just my own (long form) opinion, mixed with personal experiences, so I'll start with that disclaimer.

Over the years, Dana has always found an avenue to downplay a fighter's worth when it comes time to negotiate. The truth is secondary. The Diaz brothers "don't move the needle", for example.

In the case of Francis, I believe it has very little to do with the fighter himself, other than him being told what he's actually worth by people outside of the UFC's influence that do know what he's actually worth, and more to do with Dana & Co's long and rocky history with said people.

Francis is represented by Creative Artists Agency (CAA). For those of you that don't know, CAA has represented a lot of top UFC fighters over the years, starting long before the WME buyout.

Also, CAA and WME have been bitter rivals since the formation of CAA, by five former WME agents, in 1975.

Some of the most notable names on CAA's MMA roster have included, but are not limited to: Cain Velasquez, Rory MacDonald, Georges St. Pierre (and his coach, Firas Zahabi), the Shevchenko's, Joanna Jedrzejczyk, TJ Dillashaw, Kevin Lee, and Tim Kennedy.

Since the beginning of CAA's dealings with UFC, there have been quite a few bumps in the road when it comes time to negotiate a new contract for a lot of CAA's most popular fighters. The biggest example obviously being GSP, and a constant one since they began representing him all the way back in 2008.

Dana recently stated that he places the majority of blame on Ngannou's agent and agency in not easily being able to come to terms on a new deal. His claim is that "this is what happens when you get a guy that's repped by an agency that isn't soley an MMA agency; they have no idea what they're talking about".

However, he doesn't seem to feel the same way about the roster of UFC fighters repped by WME's own talent division, whom had only one fighter on their roster prior to purchasing UFC - Ronda Rousey, signed shortly after her first UFC fight in 2013.

Not to mention that he's dismissing the fact that, although CAA represents all forms of entertainers (as does WME), they have been representing UFC/MMA fighters (prospects, title contenders, and champions) for more than a decade. At this point, CAA is very familiar with the business side of MMA and UFC, and very much know what they are talking about.

In all fairness, Dana has dealt with plenty of agencies outside (and within) the MMA bubble that are content to just ride the current. So, those agents and managers helped set his expectations.

For example, I was lined up to film and distribute a documentary series that featured, individually, some of the cast members from season one of The Ultimate Fighter, well known UFC fighters, as well a number of non-UFC fighters. It was set to begin production shortly after the TUF 1 finale.

The first TUF cast member I had on board was Stephan Bonnar. When Stephan and I first began talking about it, money wasn't really on his mind; he had just been awarded a "six figure contract" and was simply interested in the concept of my proposed series. He was going to be fairly compensated, and he knew that.

A couple months after Stephan and I started talking, he was approached by and signed a deal with a major sports agency - Sports Entertainment Group (SEG). Stephan gave his agent my contact info, and I received a call shortly after.

Stephan had already told me how much he was being paid to fight, so I wasn't surprised when the agent was looking for similar numbers for Stephan's involvement in my series. He was the first MMA fighter that they had signed, and he was going into his first UFC contract, so the agent didn't have much else to base his expectations on. He was content to just ride the current.

I was fine with the numbers from the agent. In fact, they were actually less than what Stephan would've been paid by me for his involvement in the series. Based on my own conversations with UFC, to secure various permissions and licenses for my series - which did eventually get worked out - they barely wiggle, let alone budge. That was when UFC was just getting back on the map, I can't even imagine what those conversations would be like now.

Anyway, I digress, I'm not here to talk about the series, that's just an example to point out, from my own personal experience, the types of "MMA agents" that Dana is comparing CAA to. And although SEG fit that bill, they no longer rep MMA fighters, and haven't for a long time.

Either way, he likes the ones that are willing to just go with the flow to ensure a consistently solid relationship with UFC itself, but CAA has never been that way, and isn't willing to just accept whatever offer hits the table.

Now, one could argue that CAA playing hardball has a negative impact on their fighters, but with the exceptions of a few non-CAA fighters like Ronda, Conor, Anderson, and Jon, one could also argue that it has lead to quite a few of CAA's fighters having rather successful MMA careers (opportunities).


TLDR - The majority of heated negotiations and fall outs with top fighters that the UFC has had over the years have revolved around Dana's 13 plus year pissing match with CAA, further escalated by WME's purchase of UFC; mostly due to CAA being concerned more with their clients' best interests than those of UFC and WME. Which is exactly what anyone, in any industry, should fully expect from the agency that represents them.

Big thanks to anyone that read the whole thing.

Fun Fact: For all of you that are unsure why Dana is giving Jake Paul so much attention - Jake's "Warlock" manager that Dana mentioned recently is UFC's former Chief Financial Officer (2011-2016), and both Jake and his brother, Logan, are clients of WME's talent division. Logan was signed to CAA prior to joining his brother on WME's roster - It's all relative.

Fighter negotiation's are always messy. CAA has some bigger names which makes the contract more complex but the UFC usually sorts them out in the end. Sometimes it feels like both parties drag out the process just for the press it generates.

The UFC has so many fighters now it probably has a take or leave attitude for a lot of fighters in the middle class so once you get a little leverage you want to use it.
 
Fighter negotiation's are always messy. CAA has some bigger names which makes the contract more complex but the UFC usually sorts them out in the end. Sometimes it feels like both parties drag out the process just for the press it generates.

The UFC has so many fighters now it probably has a take or leave attitude for a lot of fighters in the middle class so once you get a little leverage you want to use it.
I agree with most of that. I'm hung up a bit on the press part, but it does happen, and can benefit both sides - at times. But UFC has always leveraged the press aspect by slandering fighters and their reps in an attempt to force pressure on them to shut up and accept the terms.

It's one thing to negotiate in a bit of a heated way, but UFC talking shit about a fighter every time a big contract is ending, instead of just simply basing it on the analytics that they generate and collect every single day got old years ago, and frankly it's just a really shitty thing to do.

When you learn contract negotiation, conventionally speaking, the key component in finalizing a deal is metrics, and that's what most (good) agencies are bringing to the table.

With the exceptions of Ali and Malki, I've never seen an MMA agent/manager push for press regarding a contract dispute, the majority of them would rather not have that type of publicity involved during negotiations. Not to mention that Ali also has no problem whatsoever throwing his own fighters under the bus to protect his own standing with the UFC, along with pushing for a good deal for one fighter, but not even attempting to for another.

I do fully agree that there's a take it or leave it attitude regarding the majority of fighters, and the intention behind it is to sway lower tiered fighters from trying to buck the system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: G10
It's part of the UFC monopoly big plan. Control over the fighters, control over their management, control or suppression of the other leagues.

A fighter who wants to escape the monopoly and a manager who will help him do that are both a problem to fix for them.

Yeah, same old story has has been talked about on here forever.
 
They pay 18% of revenue to their athletes, this is indisputable at this point.

Fighters are right to be pissed, but their individual fighting with the UFC won't accomplish anything. Until they unionize or the lawsuit forces some kind of legal change, it's going to stay the same.

If one fighter refuses to fight, U Fight Cheap will find 10 others who will.

It's supply and demand. It's a free market, the pay should drop until there aren't so many fighters. And if a bunch of people are still willing to fight even with the pay super low, then being a fighter ain't worth crap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: G10
With Tyson Holyfield taking part in legends series, Ngannou has to think of a way out because I’m sure he will be able to market his power in exhibitions even at 50 years old.
Today GSP can’t even do exhibition against de la Hoya.
Schwab ass is still owned by UFC
That Has to be the worst thing about those UFC contracts. It appears they have no expiration date whatsoever. GSP could be 60 years old and it’s my understanding he still would be bound under contract by the UFC if he wanted to do anything in combat sports. It’s pretty sickening.
 
It's supply and demand. It's a free market, the pay should drop until there aren't so many fighters. And if a bunch of people are still willing to fight even with the pay super low, then being a fighter ain't worth crap.
To me this is why the sport has stagnated as far as talent and great athletes. If the money is not there, young athletes simply will not choose to fight. They may love the sport. But if they have options in terms of professional athletics they are not choosing mixed martial arts or the UFC.
 
Nice post TS. My own take on Dana and contracts / managers is that he hates anyone that actually stands up to him and tries to actually get more from Dana then what he was ready to offer.

He will go dirty on anyone really fast it doesn't even matter the name value he did this to Conor for example and lesser names have no chance he will give them hard match ups at the end of a contract, he will hold grudges, he will put them down publicly, he will trash their managements, their coaches / gyms it doesn't matter he will do it all.

So whenever Dana takes a loss I chuckle cause they are rare, for example when he got taken to school by that old boxing manager that Holly Holm had, oh boy did Dana hate on him and like I said that is a major sign that your manager might actually be good, in the case of Holly she had PPV points as a contender vs a UFC cash cow and that is so rare to get, heck they trap some champs with no cut or make them win / defend the belt before they access it but nope Holly's manager made her bank from a contender position.

Then again what can you expect this is the CTE business, this isn't a real sport this is entertainment via violence don't ever get it twisted they can wrap it any way they think its convenient at a certain time but at the end of the day it is just a business.

To be honest I'm not even convinced Dana is that good of a businessman he is charismatic and with low morality and clearly has experience but this guy without the Fertitta's wouldn't have been on the map.

Lastly heads up 'fighter pay' related threads seem to be less cool on sherdog cause they had enough money talk... most don't even realize that the level of competition, professionalism, talent pool etc is directly correlated to the prize level.
 
Lastly heads up 'fighter pay' related threads seem to be less cool on sherdog cause they had enough money talk... most don't even realize that the level of competition, professionalism, talent pool etc is directly correlated to the prize level.

Nah there are just more dumb people here than on reddit mma or even that UFC reddit. Problem is, we can't downvote their silly takes so they tend to all gather here. Like, OP made a pretty informative post and all they can do is shit on it. I don't even think they love Dana and hate fighters as much as their actions suggest, they're just bitter about everything.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,281,582
Messages
58,377,183
Members
176,017
Latest member
KTFOPerformance
Back
Top