Law THE POLICE SHOOTING/USE OF FORCE MEGATHREAD: discussions to determine if justified or not

[Super_Nintendo]

why are so many giving the OP a hard time? this is actually an informative thread. thanks for posting.

 

[panem-et-circenses]

I think we should revisit this classic arrest. What do you make of their arresting techniques? @nhbbear @Protectandserve Seems like they have trouble controlling him. Did they handcuff him too late?

 

[Protectandserve]

That dude always cracks me up.

yeah they had absolutely no control over him and no plan to control him. They then tell him he’s under arrest without having taken steps to put him in cuffs. This officers has no idea how to put someone who was just obstructing in cuffs, much less someone fighting them.

Absolute cluster fuck. But I feel like he should be hired to narrate arrests.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

why are so many giving the OP a hard time? this is actually an informative thread. thanks for posting.

- They're just trolling him. Some of those guys arent even anti-cop, they broke the kayfabe on other threads. Dont know how @nhbbear still falls!<45>

 

[nhbbear]

I just like breakin chops in general, but it's fun with @nhbbear because about half the time he doesn't get the joke.

Fuck you, squirrel. I get jokes

 

[nhbbear]

thanks for the candid answer.

I think this is an important issue, because often many shootings that are deemed "controversial" are anything but, and others worthy of scrutiny.

You should follow policeposts on IG. great page and highly informative.

Long before instagram, some guys in the old OT asked me to write some of my coo stories in a thread. Fucking thread had like 75k views so I did a second volume. I didn’t run out of stories, just time. I used to have to sit the desk when I exams a sergeant and I would write them at work. As you can imagine, some of these stories were so fucking girthy and took a long time to write, and eventually, it quit being fun

 

[nhbbear]

He has also blindly defended cops that were obviously in the wrong. So yeah, there’s that.

Sure, I’ve made mistakes and when more information came out, I never hesitated to admit when I was wrong, and I come out and declare that I was wrong. Maybe some I was on the wrong end of, or maybe I was right and you just simply don’t know any better.

But, as I told some of the others, you have 4-5 cases above your head and many more to come. If you have something you would like to say about any of them, please do

 

[Yoricks Wisdom]

Given the incredible surveillance and scrutiny of US daily law enforcement activity, I'd say they're doing pretty good.

Aberrations, both accidental and calculated, are a rarity overall statistically IMO.

When you consider that the US has over 800K uniformed coppers out there, the incidence of malfeasance is low.

I saw a button in the 90s that said "Cop a Feel, Feel a Cop".
wish I had hung onto it. lol

 

[jk7707]

Given the incredible surveillance and scrutiny of US daily law enforcement activity, I'd say they're doing pretty good.

Aberrations, both accidental and calculated, are a rarity overall statistically IMO.

When you consider that the US has over 800K uniformed coppers out there, the incidence of malfeasance is low.

I saw a button in the 90s that said "Cop a Feel, Feel a Cop".
wish I had hung onto it. lol

Are there actual stats for this compared to, say other countries? Body cams have definitely helped, but you literally had city-wide coverups of police committing torture in interrogations happening into the 1990s here.

 

[jefferz]

Sure, I’ve made mistakes and when more information came out, I never hesitated to admit when I was wrong, and I come out and declare that I was wrong. Maybe some I was on the wrong end of, or maybe I was right and you just simply don’t know any better.

But, as I told some of the others, you have 4-5 cases above your head and many more to come. If you have something you would like to say about any of them, please do

Nah, I don't feel like having to spend a bunch of time googling the stories you post to see how you misreport the incident.

 

[Yoricks Wisdom]

.. but you literally had city-wide coverups of police committing torture in interrogations happening into the 1990s here.

tbh, if I had made that assertion, which is bombastic but not without merit, I would have taken the meager time it takes to properly source verifiable accounts of such activity.
its a good point, but examples speak volumes.

 

[deadshot138]

Thread is waste of TS' time. The ACAB idiots will never be convinced a police shooting is justified, the bootlickers will always be convinced a police shooting is justified. It's an issue no one from opposing views will agree on regardless of the facts.

 

[jk7707]

tbh, if I had made that assertion, which is bombastic but not without merit, I would have taken the meager time it takes to properly source verifiable accounts of such activity.
its a good point, but examples speak volumes.

I hear you. There are plenty, but the one that sticks out most to me, is in Chicago, where Jon Burge was literally using torture tactics to get confessions from suspects, and the few "good cops" who spoke out against him were discredited or fired.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Burge#

This is a Wikipedia article, but it is well sourced, and is a good summary of the reign of terror that this man inflicted on people in Chicago for decades.

 

[nhbbear]

I think we should revisit this classic arrest. What do you make of their arresting techniques? @nhbbear @Protectandserve Seems like they have trouble controlling him. Did they handcuff him too late?

What the fuck does one say to being presented with that? You get your hand OFF of my penis whilst I’m eating a succulent Chinese meal. And it’s Australia. Auzziss, Brits, canucks are often way too hesistsnt, imo, of seizing control of a suspect and they let them fuck about too much, giving them the opportunity, if they wanted, to do some real damage or escape. They’re just too polite and are so afraid to offend someone that often, safety seems to be overlooked. My theory is that if you are taking an individual in custody, you can be polite and respectful, but if you’re going to pu the cuffs on, fucking do it. You don’t let them try to stall and get you second guessing your decision to make the arrest. It’s all stalling tactics while they look for opportunity to escape or attack. ATM ask, tell, make. “Please put your hands behind your back” “I am telling you to put your hands behind your back.” And then you take their hands and put them behind their back and if they continue to protest and squirm, you have to be firm and be prepared to use whatever level of force is required to take control of them or completely disengage and wait for back-up or get them another day. When you know who someone is and they don’t pose a risk to the community if they are able to escape, then I would prefer that to an officer escalate the situation with someone getting seriously harmed or worse. Most times, American police don’t hesitate or fuck around like these cops did. That guy would have been on the ground very quickly and quickly handcuffed and optics be damned. And I said most because American police have begun to hesitate when dealing with black Americans because they are terrified of being labeled as a racist and ending up on YouTube. They fall for those hesitation tactics I mentioned-and nothing gives a cop more pause than being called or the insinuation that race plays a factor in the decision to arrest and use any force. I have found myself in that situation and I admit that I fell victim of this as well on a number of occasions where I hesitated to use the amount of required force once the race card was played and their was an audience. It only happened a few times, but still to this day, that bothers me. Minorities have weaponized the matter of race and have learned that there are some cops you can get to by uttering the magic words “you’re only doing this because I am black.” And it is ten times worse if there is a crowd or cameras, because then the suspect wants to put on a bigger show.

With that said, American police could learn some things from the above mentioned nations as welll. I can”t give UK police enough credit for they are able to handle knife wielding suspects without the use of firearms. Personally, I don’t believe that American law enforcement working the streets should ever be disarmed, but I would like to see our police be able to safely disarm a knife suspect without relying on firearms all the time. I read the perf (police executive research forum) study on uk police response to knife suspects. Most of it was stuff I had always been preaching in my knife defense section of police training, but some other stuff I hadn’t thought of. I summarized it into a more manageable 3 pages and sent it to my whole department. Out of 80, one officer said he read it and it gave him stuff to think about. Nothing from my arrogant police chief who is a member national association of chiefs of police. No, thanks for doing my job sort of stuff or anything. I even put in a budget request for a ballistic shield for every line car and some extra long batons for knife suspects. Denied and denied.

 

[nhbbear]

Thread is waste of TS' time. The ACAB idiots will never be convinced a police shooting is justified, the bootlickers will always be convinced a police shooting is justified. It's an issue no one from opposing views will agree on regardless of the facts.

Then, as acab twats, it is their job to get in here and show me why I am wrong on every one of these takes. I go into their threads to argue my side of things and often get hanged up on, but I still do it because it’s what I believe in.

 

[nhbbear]

- They're just trolling him. Some of those guys arent even anti-cop, they broke the kayfabe on other threads. Dont know how @nhbbear still falls!<45>

Well, if someone throws down a gauntlet, I am there. And yes, I often realize when they tag me on an issue that I have already spoken out about and condemned, they say “bear will still defend them to the death” but I will still go in there if some idiot wants to argue police profession with me

 

[nhbbear]

Nah, I don't feel like having to spend a bunch of time googling the stories you post to see how you misreport the incident.

Concession accepted. You’re lazy and unconfident, I get it.

 

[deadshot138]

Then, as acab twats, it is their job to get in here and show me why I am wrong on every one of these takes. I go into their threads to argue my side of things and often get hanged up on, but I still do it because it’s what I believe in.

They're reasoning is simple "Jackbooted thugs committing state sanctioned homicide!"

 

[deadshot138]

@nhbbear can you articulate how the shooting of Daniel Shaver was objectively reasonable?

 

[panem-et-circenses]

What the fuck does one say to being presented with that? You get your hand OFF of my penis whilst I’m eating a succulent Chinese meal. And it’s Australia. Auzziss, Brits, canucks are often way too hesistsnt, imo, of seizing control of a suspect and they let them fuck about too much, giving them the opportunity, if they wanted, to do some real damage or escape. They’re just too polite and are so afraid to offend someone that often, safety seems to be overlooked. My theory is that if you are taking an individual in custody, you can be polite and respectful, but if you’re going to pu the cuffs on, fucking do it. You don’t let them try to stall and get you second guessing your decision to make the arrest. It’s all stalling tactics while they look for opportunity to escape or attack. ATM ask, tell, make. “Please put your hands behind your back” “I am telling you to put your hands behind your back.” And then you take their hands and put them behind their back and if they continue to protest and squirm, you have to be firm and be prepared to use whatever level of force is required to take control of them or completely disengage and wait for back-up or get them another day. When you know who someone is and they don’t pose a risk to the community if they are able to escape, then I would prefer that to an officer escalate the situation with someone getting seriously harmed or worse. Most times, American police don’t hesitate or fuck around like these cops did. That guy would have been on the ground very quickly and quickly handcuffed and optics be damned. And I said most because American police have begun to hesitate when dealing with black Americans because they are terrified of being labeled as a racist and ending up on YouTube. They fall for those hesitation tactics I mentioned-and nothing gives a cop more pause than being called or the insinuation that race plays a factor in the decision to arrest and use any force. I have found myself in that situation and I admit that I fell victim of this as well on a number of occasions where I hesitated to use the amount of required force once the race card was played and their was an audience. It only happened a few times, but still to this day, that bothers me. Minorities have weaponized the matter of race and have learned that there are some cops you can get to by uttering the magic words “you’re only doing this because I am black.” And it is ten times worse if there is a crowd or cameras, because then the suspect wants to put on a bigger show.

With that said, American police could learn some things from the above mentioned nations as welll. I can”t give UK police enough credit for they are able to handle knife wielding suspects without the use of firearms. Personally, I don’t believe that American law enforcement working the streets should ever be disarmed, but I would like to see our police be able to safely disarm a knife suspect without relying on firearms all the time. I read the perf (police executive research forum) study on uk police response to knife suspects. Most of it was stuff I had always been preaching in my knife defense section of police training, but some other stuff I hadn’t thought of. I summarized it into a more manageable 3 pages and sent it to my whole department. Out of 80, one officer said he read it and it gave him stuff to think about. Nothing from my arrogant police chief who is a member national association of chiefs of police. No, thanks for doing my job sort of stuff or anything. I even put in a budget request for a ballistic shield for every line car and some extra long batons for knife suspects. Denied and denied.

I think your passion is wasted on Sherdog and your current job (making an assumption, obviously). You should have stayed on the force. Maybe transferred (can you transfer from one police force to another — tagging @Protectandserve too).