the Obamacare question dems can't aviod

[CableandThanos]

Would you give even the tiniest fuck either way? It's not like any real world outcomes are going to make conservatives stop whining about it.

apparently a lot of people gave a fuck, when you add it on top of all the other lies.

But it's your boy doing the lying, So I guess you are ok with it. Carry on you loud mouth hypocrite.

 

[drowningidiot]

it gets passed on to everyone else by increased prices, this is common sense. by no means is the old health care plan perfect, nobody was saying it was. republicans were yelling from the rooftops that it wasn't perfect and needed to be restructured however the quick obamacare approach wasn't something that should've been done. there is better ways of doing it and this wasn't it.

you shouldn't shove down a law thats 20% of the economy without a bipartisan approach. there should have been debates, studies, public forums and opinions, public voting, etc. etc. but no, it was shut up and do what i say by the emperor obama

.

There was never any chance of Republicans being a part of any meaningful healthcare reform and they don't even pretend to have any real solutions of their own.

 

[ruthless robert]

Robert, when an uninsured person walks into an emergency room does the insurance company just eat it and pay up or does the cost of their treatment get passed along to the everyone else in the system?

Think real hard about this.

here's another problem with that, i have a lot of experience in hospitals and emergency rooms. they're crowded with people that aren't there for an emergency, this is because they're uninsured and cannot get into a traditional doctor where you have to have an appointment but go to a emergency room and by law they have to see you. not only will they see you, they'll do test and other things that could be costly just to eliminate the chance of you not being treated properly and them getting sued because we all know everyone is looking to sue someone else in todays age.

by giving all these people insurance then now you're crowding doctors offices.

here's an example of that, my wifes grandfather had brain cancer, he was scheduled for an MRI before he could get his next treatment. because he was a health risk and had brain cancer he was put higher up on a list to be called in for the MRI..... do you know how long it was before he got an MRI??? if my memory recalls correctly i believe it was 4 months...... why? because he lives in Canada..... when he got word it would be 4 months and that was an expedited time he drove down here, got an MRI the same day and sent that to his doctor so they could approve the next step in his treatment after reviewing the MRI.

thats how fucked that system is, not saying outs is perfect but by all means especially in that scenario, ours is way better.

.

 

[drowningidiot]

apparently a lot of people gave a fuck, when you add it on top of all the other lies.

But it's your boy doing the lying, So I guess you are ok with it. Carry on you loud mouth hypocrite.

If it ends up working exactly as advertised it will still be Obamacare/Big Government/Socialism so could you please just admit that you're going to whine no matter what?

 

[ruthless robert]

There was never any chance of Republicans being a part of any meaningful healthcare reform and they don't even pretend to have any real solutions of their own.

you're right. the republicans didn't have a plan..... that doesn't mean we should go with the first idea that pops up from the other side of the aisle.... there should have been an much better approach at healthcare since A) it's an important issue because it's about health B) it's 20% of the economy

just because Obama had an idea doesn't automatically qualify his idea a "real solution"

.

 

[CableandThanos]

Part of the idea is to save money by trying to get everyone insured, which would theoretically cover your breast pump. Maybe it won't work out, wingnuts are banking on it not working out, but that's at least the jist of it.

But he is nor trying to get everyone insured. he is letting young people, the same young people that he needs to pay into the program, stay on their parents insurance until 26.

Also you can pay a small fine if you don't want insurance. That's not spreading the cost out when you leave so many ways of not paying.

 

[drowningidiot]

here's another problem with that, i have a lot of experience in hospitals and emergency rooms. they're crowded with people that aren't there for an emergency, this is because they're uninsured and cannot get into a traditional doctor where you have to have an appointment but go to a emergency room and by law they have to see you. not only will they see you, they'll do test and other things that could be costly just to eliminate the chance of you not being treated properly and them getting sued because we all know everyone is looking to sue someone else in todays age.

by giving all these people insurance then now you're crowding doctors offices.

here's an example of that, my wifes grandfather had brain cancer, he was scheduled for an MRI before he could get his next treatment. because he was a health risk and had brain cancer he was put higher up on a list to be called in for the MRI..... do you know how long it was before he got an MRI??? if my memory recalls correctly i believe it was 4 months...... why? because he lives in Canada..... when he got word it would be 4 months and that was an expedited time he drove down here, got an MRI the same day and sent that to his doctor so they could approve the next step in his treatment after reviewing the MRI.

thats how fucked that system is, not saying outs is perfect but by all means especially in that scenario, ours is way better.

.

Most of the developed world uses UHC and most of it gets better results than we do. For people who can afford medical tourism, obviously the US is the place to go.

 

[CableandThanos]

you're right. the republicans didn't have a plan..... that doesn't mean we should go with the first idea that pops up from the other side of the aisle.... there should have been an much better approach at healthcare since A) it's an important issue because it's about health B) it's 20% of the economy

just because Obama had an idea doesn't automatically qualify his idea a "real solution"

.

Thank You, the dems are playing the "at least we tried something card"

yea but if what you try ends up making things worse, then what was the point.

Sometimes it is best to stand pat, especially if making a change for the sake of change can make things worse.

 

[drowningidiot]

you're right. the republicans didn't have a plan..... that doesn't mean we should go with the first idea that pops up from the other side of the aisle.... there should have been an much better approach at healthcare since A) it's an important issue because it's about health B) it's 20% of the economy

just because Obama had an idea doesn't automatically qualify his idea a "real solution"

.

Part of it was timing. They had to pass it quick or get nothing at all. The Republicans said at the onset of his presidency that they were going to oppose anything he did. The ACA isn't even close to my ideal system but I do believe it will be an improvement.

 

[CableandThanos]

Part of it was timing. They had to pass it quick or get nothing at all. The Republicans said at the onset of his presidency that they were going to oppose anything he did. The ACA isn't even close to my ideal system but I do believe it will be an improvement.

As much as I am against it, I wish we would just go full blown single payer.

I think it would be funny to see the youtube videos of people freaking out the first time they saw their paychecks basically cut in half from the tax raises needed to fund it.

People working hard and see their $800 check cut down to $400.

I wonder how many "FUCK THAT" videos would be on youtube.

I swear the American people would riot if they saw that much of their paycheck taken out as people in other countries.

 

[drowningidiot]

As much as I am against it, I wish we would just go full blown single payer.

I think it would be funny to see the youtube videos of people freaking out the first time they saw their paychecks basically cut in half from the tax raises needed to fund it.

People working hard and see their $800 check cut down to $400.

I wonder how many "FUCK THAT" videos would be on youtube.

I swear the American people would riot if they saw that much of their paycheck taken out as people in other countries.

Haha do you think the people in other countries who make $800 per check lose half of that to cover UHC?

 

[Kevin Rudd]

As much as I am against it, I wish we would just go full blown single payer.

I think it would be funny to see the youtube videos of people freaking out the first time they saw their paychecks basically cut in half from the tax raises needed to fund it.

People working hard and see their $800 check cut down to $400.

I wonder how many "FUCK THAT" videos would be on youtube.

I swear the American people would riot if they saw that much of their paycheck taken out as people in other countries.

Like the massive 1.5% that comes out of my monthly paycheck to fund UHC in my country?

Yeah people would be rioting in the streets if they had 1.5% of their income taken to pay for UHC

 

[CableandThanos]

Haha do you think the people in other countries who make $800 per check lose half of that to cover UHC?

Of course I know that their entire tax rate doesn't go to UHC, But they pay higher rates than us and it would be crazy to see everyones face when even more taxes are taxen out than normal.

Like I said taxes would go up on everyone.

 

[Jukai]

ok, i will admit i've had a shitty thread or two but the majority of them have been similar to this and the majority of the posters on this forum don't like threads like these because they dont like it when people question the left. the majority on this forum are left leaners and hate the right and although some will admit it, most will not.

therefore when you bring up something, like this thread for example, im used to getting retarded replies that have nothing to do with the subject matter or just avoid it completely, this doesn't make their point of view correct however it actually makes it look like their point is rather foolish and they're not prepared to back up their point of view..... kinda like children do when you debate or argue with them..... when the child is losing they change the subject or just start calling names..... doesn't make their point the right one though.....

that being said, since you seem to have been here a while because you're talking about my previous threads..... noticing that you just joined this month, who's shadow account are you???

.

Just wanted to say that not even a page ago (if you're on 10-count, probably two pages ago) did Jack say that the 2500 number you complained about in your thread was for the year 2019.

That pretty much devalidates your entire fucking thread.

Sooooo...

 

[CableandThanos]

Like the massive 1.5% that comes out of my monthly paycheck to fund UHC in my country?

Yeah people would be rioting in the streets if they had 1.5% of their income taken to pay for UHC

Yea man, because we would only need to raise our tax rates 1.5 % just because your country does it. ????? God please tell me you are not that stupid.

dude you pay higher taxes than most americans. No one said that all he tax money would go to UHC. But taxes would have to be raised significantly.

You don't think 300 million people are gonna be covered at the current tax rates do you? Especially when a great percent of them pay little to no taxes anyway.

 

[drowningidiot]

Of course I know that their entire tax rate doesn't go to UHC, But they pay higher rates than us and it would be crazy to see everyones face when even more taxes are taxen out than normal.

Like I said taxes would go up on everyone.

The trade-off would be worth it. Some people might be happy to pay higher taxes if they weren't getting gouged by a cartel of parasitic insurance companies.

 

[CableandThanos]

The trade-off would be worth it. Some people might be happy to pay higher taxes if they weren't get gouged by a parasitic cartel of insurance companies.

Then trade off would be worth it to some, a lot of 20 to 35 year olds who never go to the hospital might not see it that way.

 

[Kevin Rudd]

Yea man, because we would only need to raise our tax rates 1.5 % just because your country does it. ????? God please tell me you are not that stupid.

dude you pay higher taxes than most americans. No one said that all he tax money would go to UHC. But taxes would have to be raised significantly.

You don't think 300 million people are gonna be covered at the current tax rates do you? Especially when a great percent of them pay little to no taxes anyway.

You have no idea what I pay in taxes because you aren't privy to my financial situation.

The taxation system in my country charges a levy on all taxable income of 1.5% specifically to fund UHC with some minor exceptions for low income earners/elderly.

That is the amount I pay directly out of my taxes to fund universal healthcare, slightly lower than the 50% number you were pushing previously. Remember your $800 to $400 comment?

You should just man up and admit you just pulled an arbitrary figure out of your asshole purely for shock value purposes with no substance or costing to back it up.

The cost has proven to be demonstrably lower.

 

[CableandThanos]

You have no idea what I pay in taxes because you aren't privy to my financial situation.

The taxation system in my country charges a levy on all taxable income of 1.5% specifically to fund UHC with some minor exceptions for low income earners/elderly.

That is the amount I pay directly out of my taxes to fund universal healthcare, slightly lower than the 50% number you were pushing previously. Remember your $800 to $400 comment?

You should just man up and admit you just pulled an arbitrary figure out of your asshole purely for shock value purposes with no substance or costing to back it up.

The cost has proven to be demonstrably lower.

Hey dumbass, no one was saying that to fund UHC that it would take 50% of a paycheck. But the raise in taxes along with all the other taxes would come close to 50% of someones paycheck. Total tax not just a tax on UHC.

I paid $8000 out of a $19000 healthcare plan, the company picked up the rest. I made $50,000, so if you took just the part I paid it would basically be a 16% of my yearly income. If I took the almost $20,000, then it would be almost 40 %. Now everyone doesn't have the same plan as me, so of course all people wouldn't be as high as me. But it would take a lot more than a 1.5% tax to cover a plan like mine.

Maybe you should pay attention next time instead of trying to make snobby comments. People would have to pay their current tax rate plus what ever extra tax there would need to be to cover everyone for UHC. That would be more than 1.5% extra.

Again, just because your country charges an extra 1.5%, doesn't mean that every other country would only charge 1.5 %.

 

[Kevin Rudd]

Hey dumbass, no one was saying that to fund UHC that it would take 50% of a paycheck. But the raise in taxes along with all the other taxes would come close to 50% of someones paycheck.

Maybe you should pay attention next time instead of trying to make snobby comments. People would have to pay their current tax rate plus what ever extra tax there would need to be to cover everyone for UHC. That would be more than 1.5% extra.

Again, just because your country charges an extra 1.5%, doesn't mean that every other country would only charge 1.5 %.

don't make me go back and quote your lying ass. You specifically said someone earning $800 will only get $400 in the take home pay and you seemed for some silly reason to think that was amusing.

It is not only not amusing, it is bullshit.

Are you slow? Do you understand what a levy is as opposed to a marginal rate of taxation. 1.5% flat rate is a levy.

Let me dumb it down for you. If someone earns $20 million a year and pays 1.5% of that to fund UHC, would that money from that levy be suitable to fund their health care only or potentially the healthcare of them + a LOT of others.

That is the whole point of taxation, you work out the cost to fund and then you tax accordingly. You come up with a figure that will equate to a revenue amount to fund your policies. UHC would not be 50%, wouldn't even be close. You are being disingenuous.