the Obamacare question dems can't aviod

[CableandThanos]

If you are so sure they aren't actually saving that amount then post some sources with some solid calculations and subsequent methodology refuting the point.

We'll all be waiting.

I have asked the other guy to post sources.

I posted a source but he said he didn't like it.

If he is sure then post sources/articles where insurance/theadminsitration/anybody is saying a saving of $2500.

Again if this were the case, don't you think with as much crap as Obama has taken so far on this law, that he would be screaming this from the rooftops if it were true?

Again this is just another lie to go along with keep your insurance, keep your doctors.

 

[Torami]

what part of nothing is free do you not understand? the nothing OR the free?

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The OR part

 

[drowningidiot]

It's a wingnut article of faith that Obamacare is doomed to fail. It's as inevitable as an olympic false flag attack. I wonder if they've even considered the possibility that it might not. They've pretty much gone all-in on this notion and don't seem to have any plan b in the event that it doesn't go away.

 

[CableandThanos]

Feel free to point where I said I was sure it would result in that amount. Good or bad it's going to take more time than repubs are demanding to get the answer.

I never said that you said that it would save $2500? The entire thread is on the president saying it would save $2500. I posted a source saying that premiums have not gone down $2500 and even JVS said something about the administration is saying by 2019 that it will save $2500.

 

[Torami]

I have asked the other guy to post sources.

I posted a source but he said he didn't like it.

If he is sure then post sources/articles where insurance/theadminsitration/anybody is saying a saving of $2500.

Again if this were the case, don't you think with as much crap as Obama has taken so far on this law, that he would be screaming this from the rooftops if it were true?

Again this is just another lie to go along with keep your insurance, keep your doctors.

Who creates it doesn't matter to me. But I like to have more than one chart presented to me when it comes to numbers. You know the actual numbers, where they got them, and how their model actually works. Silly me for wanting to look in depth into how they came to their conclusions.

 

[ruthless robert]

If you are so sure they aren't actually saving that amount then post some sources with some solid calculations and subsequent methodology refuting the point.

We'll all be waiting.

dude, first off if people were saving money you would see CNN and MSNBC do nothing but have people on talking about how they've saved money. you would hear this non stop and they would be pushing it in the faces of the republicans 24hrs a day 7 days a week.

that clearly isn't happening.

they're slow to let out the number of enrollments because it was dismal at first. then when it became what they wanted they would state that info to the public but i wonder how honest they will be when it comes time for those people to pay for the plans they picked, will they state to the public how many people dropped out due to non payment? or will they use that as another push for the same?

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[ruthless robert]

The OR part

i hate you, i hate you with all my heart and soul. i hope you stump your pinky toe in the bathtub.....

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[Torami]

If you are so sure that people are saving $2500, then post some sources..

I never said that you said that it would save $2500? The entire thread is on the president saying it would save $2500. I posted a source saying that premiums have not gone down $2500 and even JVS said something about the administration is saying by 2019 that it will save $2500.

Okay

 

[CableandThanos]

And the WH estimated that the $2,500 per year savings (relative to not passing the ACA) would materialize by 2019 (with savings starting at a lower level immediately). If the TS has some study suggesting that that's not going to happen, it's missing from the thread. So far, it looks like savings have exceeded expectations, but not to the extent necessary for recently implemented process changes to lead to immediate savings on that level.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/09/factchecking-pernicious-obamacare-claims/

If you won't believe me, maybe you will believe JVS who is apparently quoting The administration.

So even by the administration new remark, they saving SHOULD MATERIALIZE BY 2019.

 

[CableandThanos]

Okay

OKAY?

If you are sure that I am wrong after I posted a source and now I even should you what JVS said, then find anything where OBAMA is touting his own horn saying''SEE I TOLD YOU YOU WOULD SAVE $2500?"

You can't because people aren't. The administration has now said that it would be 2019

 

[drowningidiot]

If you won't believe me, maybe you will believe JVS who is apparently quoting The administration.

So even by the administration new remark, they saving SHOULD MATERIALIZE BY 2019.

Would you give even the tiniest fuck either way? It's not like any real world outcomes are going to make conservatives stop whining about it.

 

[ruthless robert]

Who creates it doesn't matter to me. But I like to have more than one chart presented to me when it comes to numbers. You know the actual numbers, where they got them, and how their model actually works. Silly me for wanting to look in depth into how they came to their conclusions.

okay, fair enough.... since we dont have those numbers in front of us right now let me ask you a question.

due to the new healthcare law it's now mandatory for expecting mothers to get a breast pump, $300 value, where as before the law the individual would purchase this pump on their own, now it's provided by the insurance company.

question is, where does the $300 come from? does the insurance company just eat it and pay up? or do this $300 get passed down to the individual by other means?

.

 

[CableandThanos]

I don't know why people are having a hard time understanding this,this was just another lie in a long list of lies used to sell the people on the ACA.

It's ok guys, you can admit it, it has passed and it's now law. Admitting it will not make the law go away.

 

[Jack V Savage]

OKAY?

If you are sure that I am wrong after I posted a source and now I even should you what JVS said, then find anything where OBAMA is touting his own horn saying''SEE I TOLD YOU YOU WOULD SAVE $2500?"

You can't because people aren't. The administration has now said that it would be 2019

"Now"=four years ago. And DI has this pegged. Don't pretend like the facts matter at all to you.

 

[ruthless robert]

Would you give even the tiniest fuck either way? It's not like any real world outcomes are going to make conservatives stop whining about it.

its the kick the can down the road mentality that this country has, on both sides, that will be this countries ultimate down fall. you cant campaign on passing a law stating it will save people money and then when it's more expensive then come up with some rubbish stating it will be 2019 before people start to see that savings they were talking about.

all that was is a 100 year old political trick, smoke in mirrors, dodge it but touting all sorts or educated sounding garbage trying to give it credibility, this will calm down the complainers for 5 years..... then at that time they will be so used to it they wont even question this again because they will be 5 years into something different in their life..... and even if they did question it 5 years from now all we have to do is say that because the republicans did this in 2016 or that in 2017 that's why you're not seeing savings in 2019......

its all a bunch of B.S. the reality of it is if it were cheaper you would notice it right off the bat, you're not, it's a lie and a horrible way to abuse 20% of the U.S. economy during a recession.....

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[drowningidiot]

question is, where does the $300 come from? does the insurance company just eat it and pay up? or do this $300 get passed down to the individual by other means?

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Robert, when an uninsured person walks into an emergency room does the insurance company just eat it and pay up or does the cost of their treatment get passed along to the everyone else in the system?

Think real hard about this.

 

[CableandThanos]

"Now"=four years ago. And DI has this pegged. Don't pretend like the facts matter at all to you.

??? WTF

When he was trying to get this passed, he said it would save people $2500. Not
ohh hey guys, in 10 years you will be saving $2500.

 

[CableandThanos]

Robert, when an uninsured person walks into an emergency room does the insurance company just eat it and pay up or does the cost of their treatment get passed along to the everyone else in the system?

Think real hard about this.

It gets passed along by higher prices to everyone. Same as the new breast pump price will be spread out over everyone.

What the hell does that have to do with people saving $2500 on their plan?

 

[ruthless robert]

Robert, when an uninsured person walks into an emergency room does the insurance company just eat it and pay up or does the cost of their treatment get passed along to the everyone else in the system?

Think real hard about this.

it gets passed on to everyone else by increased prices, this is common sense. by no means is the old health care plan perfect, nobody was saying it was. republicans were yelling from the rooftops that it wasn't perfect and needed to be restructured however the quick obamacare approach wasn't something that should've been done. there is better ways of doing it and this wasn't it.

you shouldn't shove down a law thats 20% of the economy without a bipartisan approach. there should have been debates, studies, public forums and opinions, public voting, etc. etc. but no, it was shut up and do what i say by the emperor obama

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[drowningidiot]

It gets passed along by higher prices to everyone. Same as the new breast pump price will be spread out over everyone.

What the hell does that have to do with people saving $2500 on their plan?

Part of the idea is to save money by trying to get everyone insured, which would theoretically cover your breast pump. Maybe it won't work out, wingnuts are banking on it not working out, but that's at least the jist of it.