Social The Nixon appeal to jerks

[Prefect]

Nixon was incredibly smart and took his job seriously. He also happened to be a very crooked person.

He was smart but I don't know if I would put him up there with Obama, Clinton, Lincoln, Kennedy, FDR, or even Eisenhower.

 

[Crazy Source]

He was smart but I don't know if I would put him up there with Obama, Clinton, Lincoln, Kennedy, FDR, or even Eisenhower.

I don't know who would win a brain race, I have just read enough about Nixon to know that he was very intelligent. Plus, he was a big football fan. He would have most likely been fun to hang out with.

 

[avenue94]

Indeed. He was a smarter, more professional, and more covert version of Trump.



Idk about "accomplished". As best I can tell, he sometimes achieved objectives, and he sometimes failed to. But I think the man's record, as it pertains to ethics, speaks for itself. Whether or not that constitutes being accomplished is debatable. Having said that, I would stand by my contention that he was to a higher standard by his own party, than Trump is today.

Reopening of China, EPA, ending the Vietnam War (while also probably prolonging it), his record isn't bad for that era.

And yes, he is about as good an example of "character is destiny/' for talented political operators.

Claiming he and Trump are alike is too simplistic, they both have crippling flaws and strengths that are quite distinct. In Nixon's case, his crippling flaw was paranoia more than anything else.

 

[avenue94]

I don't know who would win a brain race, I have just read enough about Nixon to know that he was very intelligent. Plus, he was a big football fan. He would have most likely been fun to hang out with.

Up until the point where dude was socially awkward to the extent that he would refuse to take off his suit jacket even among friends lol.

 

[joy2day]

On the surface, there do seem to be parallels between the political dynamics of the late 60's/early 70's, and those of today. Broadly speaking, Nixon supporters were essentially the MAGA of their day. Though even Nixon had limits to what the base would deem acceptable behavior from him. The same cannot be said for Trump.

Yeah, the world is so different in every way than it was then. I think people make these comparisons (like the OP) that are either incredibly ideologically biased and/or missing the bigger picture perspective on someone like Nixon.

• Proposed a universal healthcare plan: Nixon’s 1974 health insurance plan would have required employers to provide insurance and created subsidies for low-income people — resembling the ACA (Obamacare) in some ways.
• Expanded Social Security: Nixon signed into law a major expansion of Social Security benefits in 1972.
• Established Supplemental Security Income (SSI): This program still supports elderly, blind, and disabled individuals with limited income.
• Created the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): In 1970, Nixon established the EPA, now a cornerstone of environmental regulation.
• Signed the Clean Air Act of 1970: A landmark law to combat air pollution.
• Signed the Endangered Species Act (1973) and Safe Drinking Water Act (1974): Critical environmental protections.
• Increased federal funding for education: Nixon backed more spending on public education and supported desegregation in Southern schools, albeit reluctantly at times.
• Revenue Sharing with States: While seen as a conservative approach to decentralization, it resulted in increased federal funds flowing into local governments for social programs.
• Supported Title IX (1972): Nixon signed Title IX into law, which prohibits sex-based discrimination in federally funded education — foundational for gender equity in sports and education.
• Affirmative Action: Nixon’s administration implemented the Philadelphia Plan, the first significant federal affirmative action program requiring contractors to hire minority workers.
• Ended the Vietnam War: Though he escalated it early on, Nixon negotiated the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam.
• Opened diplomatic relations with China: Nixon’s 1972 visit to China paved the way for trade and diplomacy with a major communist nation.
• Détente with the Soviet Union: Eased Cold War tensions and led to arms control agreements (SALT I).
• Imposed wage and price controls: In 1971, Nixon temporarily froze wages and prices to combat inflation — a direct federal intervention in the economy that would be viewed as big-government today.
• Took the U.S. off the gold standard: His move toward a fiat currency system gave the government more monetary flexibility.

 

[gspieler]

Yeah, the world is so different in every way than it was then. I think people make these comparisons (like the OP) that are either incredibly ideologically biased and/or missing the bigger picture perspective on someone like Nixon.

• Proposed a universal healthcare plan: Nixon’s 1974 health insurance plan would have required employers to provide insurance and created subsidies for low-income people — resembling the ACA (Obamacare) in some ways.
• Expanded Social Security: Nixon signed into law a major expansion of Social Security benefits in 1972.
• Established Supplemental Security Income (SSI): This program still supports elderly, blind, and disabled individuals with limited income.
• Created the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): In 1970, Nixon established the EPA, now a cornerstone of environmental regulation.
• Signed the Clean Air Act of 1970: A landmark law to combat air pollution.
• Signed the Endangered Species Act (1973) and Safe Drinking Water Act (1974): Critical environmental protections.
• Increased federal funding for education: Nixon backed more spending on public education and supported desegregation in Southern schools, albeit reluctantly at times.
• Revenue Sharing with States: While seen as a conservative approach to decentralization, it resulted in increased federal funds flowing into local governments for social programs.
• Supported Title IX (1972): Nixon signed Title IX into law, which prohibits sex-based discrimination in federally funded education — foundational for gender equity in sports and education.
• Affirmative Action: Nixon’s administration implemented the Philadelphia Plan, the first significant federal affirmative action program requiring contractors to hire minority workers.
• Ended the Vietnam War: Though he escalated it early on, Nixon negotiated the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam.
• Opened diplomatic relations with China: Nixon’s 1972 visit to China paved the way for trade and diplomacy with a major communist nation.
• Détente with the Soviet Union: Eased Cold War tensions and led to arms control agreements (SALT I).
• Imposed wage and price controls: In 1971, Nixon temporarily froze wages and prices to combat inflation — a direct federal intervention in the economy that would be viewed as big-government today.
• Took the U.S. off the gold standard: His move toward a fiat currency system gave the government more monetary flexibility.

These are good points. Times have certainly changed. Modern Republicanism, and its positions(which are largely opposed to supporting labor, against social safety nets, and are hawkish in foreign relations), was pretty much born with Regan. Not that Nixon particularly deserves credit.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I thought this was kind of interesting how Nixon found appeal to a group of people "jerks" that found themselves in him. Reaction against the 60s and cultural change. Sometimes, it feels like everything old is new again Rather than throwing around the term "woke" it was the same nonsense but saying "radical liberalism" and "permissive society" instead. He appealed to a group of people that just never allowed themselves and others to expand on themselves and live. Just people stuck in their own boxes and not allowing themselves to "not wear a tie".

Yeah, these type of battles have been going on for centuries.

Right wingers/conservatives/traditionalists/monarchists whatever you want to call them have been fighting against human progress and equality since the Enlightenment. They've been screaming that the other side is "taking it too far" and that they're ruining society and civilization for just as long.

They have occasional victories (Reaganism, MAGA) but on the whole, progress wins. This is why we're not all peasants paying rent to our feudal lord or hoping the next war doesn't take our family and sell us off in the slave markets.

 

[joy2day]

These are good points. Times have certainly changed. Modern Republicanism, and its positions(which are largely opposed to supporting labor, against social safety nets, and are hawkish in foreign relations), was pretty much born with Regan. Not that Nixon particularly deserves credit.

He deserves credit for the positive things he did though, which were actually numerous; his environmental credentials alone are beyond most Dem presidents, and at an important time for that to happen. Lots of young folks these days know Nixon and Wilbur as the Watergate and blowjobs presidents respectively, and that's about the extent of their knowledge around these guys because that's what's on social media. There is far more to these men and their presidencies than office break-ins and blowjobs (with cigars).

 

[Prefect]

He deserves credit for the positive things he did though, which were actually numerous; his environmental credentials alone are beyond most Dem presidents, and at an important time for that to happen. Lots of young folks these days know Nixon and Wilbur as the Watergate and blowjobs presidents respectively, and that's about the extent of their knowledge around these guys because that's what's on social media. There is far more to these men and their presidencies than office break-ins and blowjobs (with cigars).

I think Nixon and Clinton to a certain degree had a better understanding of the poor because they grew up poor, especially Nixon. Clinton's family had a shop but they were anything but rich. Bill Clinton's grandfather was notorious for letting people pay for groceries, both black and white, when they could if they didn't have enough money. Clinton grew up around real poverty and that was a main driver for his campaign to become the governor of Arkansas. Nixon understood poverty and there is a part of me that has always felt that believed the rich always looked down on him and that is why he always had a chip on his shoulder.

 

[William Huggins]

Yeah, the world is so different in every way than it was then. I think people make these comparisons (like the OP) that are either incredibly ideologically biased and/or missing the bigger picture perspective on someone like Nixon.

• Proposed a universal healthcare plan: Nixon’s 1974 health insurance plan would have required employers to provide insurance and created subsidies for low-income people — resembling the ACA (Obamacare) in some ways.
• Expanded Social Security: Nixon signed into law a major expansion of Social Security benefits in 1972.
• Established Supplemental Security Income (SSI): This program still supports elderly, blind, and disabled individuals with limited income.
• Created the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): In 1970, Nixon established the EPA, now a cornerstone of environmental regulation.
• Signed the Clean Air Act of 1970: A landmark law to combat air pollution.
• Signed the Endangered Species Act (1973) and Safe Drinking Water Act (1974): Critical environmental protections.
• Increased federal funding for education: Nixon backed more spending on public education and supported desegregation in Southern schools, albeit reluctantly at times.
• Revenue Sharing with States: While seen as a conservative approach to decentralization, it resulted in increased federal funds flowing into local governments for social programs.
• Supported Title IX (1972): Nixon signed Title IX into law, which prohibits sex-based discrimination in federally funded education — foundational for gender equity in sports and education.
• Affirmative Action: Nixon’s administration implemented the Philadelphia Plan, the first significant federal affirmative action program requiring contractors to hire minority workers.
• Ended the Vietnam War: Though he escalated it early on, Nixon negotiated the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam.
• Opened diplomatic relations with China: Nixon’s 1972 visit to China paved the way for trade and diplomacy with a major communist nation.
• Détente with the Soviet Union: Eased Cold War tensions and led to arms control agreements (SALT I).
• Imposed wage and price controls: In 1971, Nixon temporarily froze wages and prices to combat inflation — a direct federal intervention in the economy that would be viewed as big-government today.
• Took the U.S. off the gold standard: His move toward a fiat currency system gave the government more monetary flexibility.

He did a lot, people just remember scandals..........

The state the world had reached in the West, actually needed to progress more rapidly past that individualistic post modern stage we've been stuck in......... I actually think Nixon might have understood this........

 

[joy2day]

He did a lot, people just remember scandals..........

The state the world had reached in the West, actually needed to progress more rapidly past that individualistic post modern stage we've been stuck in......... I actually think Nixon might have understood this........

Yeah, he understood a lot of things before their time apparently. This is some straight Nostradamus shit here (after the coup in Russia ended the USSR).

 

[Prefect]

Yeah, he understood a lot of things before their time apparently. This is some straight Nostradamus shit here (after the coup in Russia ended the USSR).

I am not going to say he is dumb but he was drenched in foreign policy and was close with Kissinger. Vietnam was similar in try to show democracy to succeed to prevent its spread in SE Asia. What he is what u.s. policy was from the collapse of the Soviet union to Obama.

 

[italiamusica]

And all of Daddy Trumps little bastard kids come running to defend him lol.

It's true though, it's almost like MAGA thinks that empathy, compassion, being nice, and caring about others, is the most woke bullshit of all time. The only qualities a "man" needs to have is anger and hate for anything that's different than him, according to them.

Even more hilarious that it's always the religious weirdos with the ABSOLUTE MOST HATE in their heart, and they think repenting once a week will give them eternal salvation. LOL.

 

[deviake]

Yeah, the world is so different in every way than it was then. I think people make these comparisons (like the OP) that are either incredibly ideologically biased and/or missing the bigger picture perspective on someone like Nixon.

• Proposed a universal healthcare plan: Nixon’s 1974 health insurance plan would have required employers to provide insurance and created subsidies for low-income people — resembling the ACA (Obamacare) in some ways.
• Expanded Social Security: Nixon signed into law a major expansion of Social Security benefits in 1972.
• Established Supplemental Security Income (SSI): This program still supports elderly, blind, and disabled individuals with limited income.
• Created the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): In 1970, Nixon established the EPA, now a cornerstone of environmental regulation.
• Signed the Clean Air Act of 1970: A landmark law to combat air pollution.
• Signed the Endangered Species Act (1973) and Safe Drinking Water Act (1974): Critical environmental protections.
• Increased federal funding for education: Nixon backed more spending on public education and supported desegregation in Southern schools, albeit reluctantly at times.
• Revenue Sharing with States: While seen as a conservative approach to decentralization, it resulted in increased federal funds flowing into local governments for social programs.
• Supported Title IX (1972): Nixon signed Title IX into law, which prohibits sex-based discrimination in federally funded education — foundational for gender equity in sports and education.
• Affirmative Action: Nixon’s administration implemented the Philadelphia Plan, the first significant federal affirmative action program requiring contractors to hire minority workers.
• Ended the Vietnam War: Though he escalated it early on, Nixon negotiated the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam.
• Opened diplomatic relations with China: Nixon’s 1972 visit to China paved the way for trade and diplomacy with a major communist nation.
• Détente with the Soviet Union: Eased Cold War tensions and led to arms control agreements (SALT I).
• Imposed wage and price controls: In 1971, Nixon temporarily froze wages and prices to combat inflation — a direct federal intervention in the economy that would be viewed as big-government today.
• Took the U.S. off the gold standard: His move toward a fiat currency system gave the government more monetary flexibility.

Conservatives of today would call that commie shit

 

[deviake]

Can anyone tell me what Nixon's position was on food assistance, and what he did about it?

 

[Prefect]

Conservatives of today would call that commie shit

Calling shit commie or socialism is just the way the rich call out stuff they don't like having to pay tax dollars for. You'll never hear them mention those two words when an industry or company gets bailed out by the government.

 

[joy2day]

Conservatives of today would call that commie shit

That's what almost everyone misses about him (most people- Nixon = crook from Watergate); he actually had a vision that was ahead of its time.

 

[Sinister]

I thought this was kind of interesting how Nixon found appeal to a group of people "jerks" that found themselves in him. Reaction against the 60s and cultural change. Sometimes, it feels like everything old is new again Rather than throwing around the term "woke" it was the same nonsense but saying "radical liberalism" and "permissive society" instead. He appealed to a group of people that just never allowed themselves and others to expand on themselves and live. Just people stuck in their own boxes and not allowing themselves to "not wear a tie".

I havent watched this yet but I will just say that David Hoffman is probably the best Filmmaker no one has heard of. His dedication to documenting life in the United States all through his own lifetime (and I believe he is nearly 80 years-old) is unparalleled. His channel features countless interviews from people from all walks, even people who worked in former administrations, to common working class people, to students.

I messaged him once to ask a question about one of his pieces and we emailed back and forth for a few days. Super good guy.

 

[IanEdwards]

I don't know who would win a brain race, I have just read enough about Nixon to know that he was very intelligent. Plus, he was a big football fan. He would have most likely been fun to hang out with.

As president, he was the guy you go to the game and get drunk with once, and 3 nights later he is calling you drunk at 3AM ranting about the hippies and the blacks

 

[IanEdwards]

Yeah, these type of battles have been going on for centuries.

Right wingers/conservatives/traditionalists/monarchists whatever you want to call them have been fighting against human progress and equality since the Enlightenment. They've been screaming that the other side is "taking it too far" and that they're ruining society and civilization for just as long.

I only came across the excellent Galbraith definition of conservatism relatively recently like in the last year or so, it hit me like a brick when i read it:

The modern conservative is not even especially modern. He is engaged, on the contrary, in one of man’s oldest, best financed, most applauded, and, on the whole, least successful exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

its such a wonderfully concise take that its always worth going back to. He goes on to flesh it out:

It is an exercise which always involves a certain number of internal contradictions and even a few absurdities. The conspicuously wealthy turn up urging the character-building value of privation for the poor. The man who has struck it rich in minerals, oil, or other bounties of nature is found explaining the debilitating effect of unearned income from the state. The corporate executive who is a superlative success as an organization man weighs in on the evils of bureaucracy. Federal aid to education is feared by those who live in suburbs that could easily forgo this danger, and by people whose children are in public schools. Socialized medicine is condemned by men emerging from Walter Reed Hospital. Social Security is viewed with alarm by those who have the comfortable cushion of an inherited income. Those who are immediately threatened by public efforts to meet their needs — whether widows, small farmers, hospitalized veterans, or the unemployed — are almost always oblivious to the danger.

What i realised recently though is that MAGA (and their equivalents in Europe following hard on their heels) are engaged in something that is both less, and more, than searching for 'a superior moral justification for selfishness'. The emotion they wish to leverage or trigger in their adherents is something much more toxic and violent than mere 'selfishness', not least because they are a party organised for high-income people that are trying to appeal to lower-income voters.

Updated, I guess Galbraith's phrase would read something more like 'the modern MAGA 'conservative' is engaged.... in the search for the optimum way to create fear of out-groups and leverage nationalism in direct replacement for class-consciousness'