_____________ _______ ________________

[Islam Imamate]

You have yet to once use the Hadith wording "excess wealth."

Excess wealth is: excess, not necessary.

This is as clear as water being wet.

Life savings aren't necessary either. There are many people who have little to no savings but make ends meet nonetheless. I would still think a person is entitled to their own wealthif its something they saved up.

It is wrong to lie. Period.

If someone lies to protect themselves in extreme circumstances that is between them on God.

I disagree there. I see nothing wrong with lying to protect yourself or your property. If you can use lethal force to protect yourself and your property, as I believe you can, then lying is mild in comparison.

The man truly did not know in that day and age what "some relatives" were going through if anything. They may well have been living just as protected lives in Mecca than in his household.

The Hadith is purposefully ambiguous.

Its not about his relatives, its about his safety when he enters the city. So its clearly intended for use when you can reasonably expect that religious persecution will threaten you and your property. You're really not convincing in trying to make this out to be about lying to gain wealth at the expense of others instead of what it clearly is.

Neither term fit the Hadith.

I was describing the hadith, I was offering an analogy. And it does seem to fit given we're talking about lying in the face of religious persecution that presents a threat to safety of person and property.

False at every point. It was a loophole included in the Hadith so that a person could reason justification of dishonesty for obtaining excess wealth.

That's your interpretation that doesn't at all seem obvious to me. In fact I think you've done a rather poor job of making your case on this point.

Not necessarily related to the Hadith we've been debating, but the culmination of a culture's engrained use of dishonesty was seen in the case of Ahmed the Clock Boy. Anyone with a clean conscience knew that was exploitive.

The irony here is that in speaking on this topic you yourself exhibit the ingrained use of dishonesty and willingness to use half truths.

Yeah right. I'm not going to do that for you, but I say it most certainly has been happening and you yourself did it many times. I will interject in the future when and if it happens.

Cheers anyway!

Now this is slander. An outright accusation and also a refusal to back up the claim. Pretty unsightly really.

Being polite does not make up for being dishonest.

 

[dissolved]

Life savings aren't necessary either. There are many people who have little to no savings but make ends meet nonetheless. I would still think a person is entitled to their own wealthif its something they saved up.

Who's talking about life savings but you? You've called me dishonest or misleading several times in this thread (one instance of which is at the end of this post of yours). Yet I'm the only one referring to the actual wording of the Hadith. You're conflating terms and ideas. Excess wealth is excess wealth. It is unnessecary by definition.

I disagree there. I see nothing wrong with lying to protect yourself or your property. If you can use lethal force to protect yourself and your property, as I believe you can, then lying is mild in comparison.

You're free to disagree, but the words of the Hadith denote traveling into danger, and lying to protect oneself to obtain excess wealth in doing so.

To me this clearly lays out the base value-system.

Its not about his relatives, its about his safety when he enters the city. So its clearly intended for use when you can reasonably expect that religious persecution will threaten you and your property. You're really not convincing in trying to make this out to be about lying to gain wealth at the expense of others instead of what it clearly is.

It's still lying to gain excess, nothing more.

I was describing the hadith, I was offering an analogy. And it does seem to fit given we're talking about lying in the face of religious persecution that presents a threat to safety of person and property.

That's your interpretation that doesn't at all seem obvious to me. In fact I think you've done a rather poor job of making your case on this point.

The irony here is that in speaking on this topic you yourself exhibit the ingrained use of dishonesty and willingness to use half truths.

Now this is slander. An outright accusation and also a refusal to back up the claim. Pretty unsightly really.

Being polite does not make up for being dishonest.

I disagree on all of those points. Except for the last one of "being polite does not make up for being dishonest." I agree with that and I wasn't being dishonest. If I had to make a judgement here I'd say it was the other way around.

Any who, hopefully we can drop this for now.

 

[weed]

You clearly didn't read through this thread nor the first 3 posts.

Over the course of the thread I was the one who was told to be misleading. I was the one inferred as a moron.

I never said anything wrong to anyone in here.



This sounds like a well-sourced and compelling argument.



Here it is folks, hold your breath:



I have? I ask for proof of that claim.



Lots of untruth here, but your casting, setting and background of me is interesting. I feel like a character in a movie you're writing.




I haven't demonstrated any or much anger in here have I? Do you have proof of that?









Uh what? Thanks for coming around again. I'll bet I've posted 5 threads in the last 6 months. So no, you're wrong. Compare my thread's starting with say . . . Well many others who post threads on almost a daily basis.

Fact is you haven't been around here much until the last week or so.




This is one of the more-pandering posts I've seen. But hey you're free to post here and say whatever.

Cheers man!

dude - the details are all in your post history. I'm not going to address your points because I know how this will go down where it'll end up with you bickering in an emotional tirade. plus I'm on a tablet & my girl is on my laptop & I'm too lazy for the most part.

nevertheless, you make questionable posts criticizing women where people have even joked about you being gay. you never really denied the fact & would shy away from the jokes. you've also shitted on Muslim women how they have a superiority complex & how they disgust you - when no one would bite you've then resorted to work the angle how they're oppressed, not because of the fact a lot of them are outside of the west, but because of your personal prejudice within you.

you act like no one is able to see your post history & lie through your teeth - its sad.

for example, you've said over & over again on the past that you would straight up confront your Muslim coworkers & challenge them on their beliefs. batshit insane, & I remember people shitting on you, egging you on to do so. this is a telltale sign common social courtesies are lost on you, let alone code of conduct at a workplace. this was proven when a while back you created a thread about how you got fired because of your coworkers "colluding" against you or some shit.

not saying you challenged a Muslim person on their beliefs at the workplace, because you don't have the balls to (RE: a Muslim guy had the courtesy to ask to sit at an empty seat at your table at a bar so he could watch the UFC event there & you left all salty & ran home to Sherdog to cry about it) - but if it is any indication how batshit crazy & seething angry you are on here, surely this is all a mere glimpse of how terrible you must be in person.

you shit on those merely because you disagree with them - no I haven't followed the course of the thread, because @Zankou 's post tells the tale, so your point is irrelevant, & more proof is made evident in your other bigotry laced posts in other threads just on the first TWR page.

literally all of your contributions on here (or 99.9%) promote negativity - you claim to be a "good Christian" & "love" everybody, not realizing you insult Christ everyday with your poor contributions on here.

you're fooling no one.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Who's talking about life savings but you? You've called me dishonest or misleading several times in this thread (one instance of which is at the end of this post of yours). Yet I'm the only one referring to the actual wording of the Hadith. You're conflating terms and ideas. Excess wealth is excess wealth. It is unnessecary by definition.

I'm not denying its not necessary, I'm just saying that a person has a right to their own excess wealth. In the hadith that's quoted the man says its his excess wealth in Mecca. He was granted permission to go and retrieve his own wealth, what is wrong with that?

You're free to disagree, but the words of the Hadith denote traveling into danger, and lying to protect oneself to obtain excess wealth in doing so.

To me this clearly lays out the base value-system.

Its not really clear at all, your argument here is very poor

It's still lying to gain excess, nothing more.

Again, it was his own excess wealth. What is wrong with using lying to protect your property? I think you've failed to demonstrate why that's immoral

I disagree on all of those points. Except for the last one of "being polite does not make up for being dishonest." I agree with that and I wasn't being dishonest. If I had to make a judgement here I'd say it was the other way around.

Any who, hopefully we can drop this for now.

You certainly seem consistently dishonest in threads like these. In fact I've seen you employ this specific dishonest and poor argument before so its clear your dishonesty is premeditated.

 

[weed]

dear God, arguing with @In The Name Of is so fucking exhausting where you end up having to explain yourself over & over again because he misconstrues literally everything.

this is because of his own personal superiority hubris, aka thicket of delusion. he never gets your point & everything gears off to retarded tangents, where he ends up arguing semantics with you.

it's atrocious. kid gets ripped by a new user everyday on here, or over & over again by the same ones.

 

[dissolved]

dude - the details are all in your post history. I'm not going to address your points because I know how this will go down where it'll end up with you bickering in an emotional tirade. plus I'm on a tablet & my girl is on my laptop & I'm too lazy for the most part.

I'm on my tablet as well.

nevertheless, you make questionable posts criticizing women where people have even joked about you being gay. you never really denied the fact & would shy away from the jokes.

Not gay.

you've also shitted on Muslim women how they have a superiority complex & how they disgust you

The superiority complex disgusts me, yes. Not "they." I know I wouldn't have said it that way.

when no one would bite

I'm pretty sure you bit and one or two others. I think one of the others was Rod1. I certainly wasn't alone dancing in whichever thread that was.

you've then resorted to work the angle how they're oppressed, not because of the fact a lot of them are outside of the west, but because of your personal prejudice within you.

I'm quite certain I didn't call myself prejudice and I don't know what those first few sentences mean exactly.

you act like no one is able to see your post history & lie through your teeth - its sad.

Big jump time of me "[lying] through my teeth" and "its sad."

I would say that is your characterization and not the majority. And I endeavor to be honest.

for example, you've said over & over again on the past that you would straight up confront your Muslim coworkers & challenge them on their beliefs.

Did I really say that over and over again? I think you are combining events. I have confronted Muslim coworkers before, but I've been in a recent job for just about a year now and the Muslim I work with now is my superior and very zealous of his religion. While on probation and in training after, I've avoided anything heated and quite frankly most conversation to do with religion and politics though he inserts his opinion regularly. I have explained a few key things that I believe: capitalism being one and how it works. I've also let him know that I'm a Christian.

In the past I've had numerous conversations with fellow students and coworkers that get into the nitty-gritty of the religion. I'm not nasty, obviously, I've had many good conversations.

The one issue, I believe you are referring to, is the situation I had at a bar watching a UFC where a guy wearing a black-and-white keffiyeh sat at my table a fight before the main event. He seemed aggressive and knew that I eyed his, what I called a "jihad scarf" and "palestinian-solidarity symbol" which you jumped all over as if the symbolism didn't/doesn't exist. Ironically, I'll direct you to the video of the last day which you commented on, where the Jewish lecturer is confronted at a California university in Q&A and she is wearing one. She invites him to the Hitler youth week and then when pressed said she "agreed" with Hamas' statement of gathering all the Jews into one place in Israel and wiping them out. The professor then called her keffiyeh a "terrorist scarf" - similar to what I called it.

Yet you jumped all over me with a few others in that thread when I said I was biting my tongue "so close to saying something" which was the case that night at the bar. But I didn't given a bunch of reasons, mainly circumstantial. Yes I most certainly would have at another time and in a conversational way.

But, you interpreted all of that to me being a liar when it was actually very honest anecdote.

batshit insane, & I remember people shitting on you, egging you on to do so. this is a telltale sign common social courtesies are lost on you, let alone code of conduct at a workplace.

As I just explained, you have a series of events and conversations blended together.

this was proven when a while back you created a thread about how you got fired because of your coworkers "colluding" against you or some shit.

First, I was never fired from anywhere, never have been, never said that.

Second, I don't believe I ever made a thread about that which would be strange to me if I did. I believe that was all apart of another conversation with someone else in another thread that apparently you were reading. The case in point was workplace bullying/harassment that in over 20 years of work was the only time I ever experienced it. The job itself paid extremely well, but the company had its ability to acquire assets frozen and was under investigation. I don't believe I got into this much detail in the other thread btw. But anyway, the environment was a pressure cooker and there was some bad stuff happening and I walked. Thankfully my education and work history is stellar, so I was able to obtain past references from previous employers and made a lateral move to another company. I have have zero issues here and it is working out very well.

not saying you challenged a Muslim person on their beliefs at the workplace, because you don't have the balls to (RE: a Muslim guy had the courtesy to ask to sit at an empty seat at your table at a bar so he could watch the UFC event there & you left all salty & ran home to Sherdog to cry about it) - but if it is any indication how batshit crazy & seething angry you are on here, surely this is all a mere glimpse of how terrible you must be in person.-

you shit on those merely because you disagree with them - no I haven't followed the course of the thread, because @Zankou 's post tells the tale, so your point is irrelevant, & more proof is made evident in your other bigotry laced posts in other threads just on the first TWR page.

literally all of your contributions on here (or 99.9%) promote negativity - you claim to be a "good Christian" & "love" everybody, not realizing you insult Christ everyday on here with your poor contributions on here.

you're fooling no one.

Well anyway, it looks to me like you're doing lots of posting, deferring, not much reading etc. Then running me down.

Cheers anyway.

 

[dissolved]

I'm not denying its not necessary, I'm just saying that a person has a right to their own excess wealth. In the hadith that's quoted the man says its his excess wealth in Mecca. He was granted permission to go and retrieve his own wealth, what is wrong with that?

Its not really clear at all, your argument here is very poor

Again, it was his own excess wealth. What is wrong with using lying to protect your property? I think you've failed to demonstrate why that's immoral


You certainly seem consistently dishonest in threads like these. In fact I've seen you employ this specific dishonest and poor argument before so its clear your dishonesty is premeditated.

 

[frandie2b]

not saying you challenged a Muslim person on their beliefs at the workplace, because you don't have the balls to (RE: a Muslim guy had the courtesy to ask to sit at an empty seat at your table at a bar so he could watch the UFC event there & you left all salty & ran home to Sherdog to cry about it) - but if it is any indication how batshit crazy & seething angry you are on here, surely this is all a mere glimpse of how terrible you must be in person.

Hahahaha this can't be true

 

[ShinkanPo]

Lol the Taqiya thread got funny!!

 

[Islam Imamate]

Coming from the guy who said family don't count as relatives. Lel

 

[weed]

more lies, misconstruing, strawmans given to misdirect everyone

as expected, you misconstrue points I've made & make them out to be something else entirely. you can't even comprehend what you read because your hubris prevents you from doing so.

no stories were blended together - wake up, you are not responding accordingly. your misdirection tactics do not work on me. you can't even remember the argument over the bar incident.

its amazing you are the only one always complimenting yourself - I don't even have to set traps up for you because in all of your replies, you end up exposing yourself all on your own.

all of your "arguments" literally strengthen my assessment that you indeed are batshit insane, socially inept & most significant of all considering this is an online forum, you are poor at debating - absolutely the worst on Sherdog that I've ever witnessed.

whatever it is you are, you're denying it. you lie, deny, & deceive incessantly. everything about confronting Muslim folks in the workplace is bullshit - you know it, we all know it. you seem to believe none of us are business professionals - joke's on you. adhering to the code of conduct at a workplace applies to all industries regardless. you're fooling no one dude.

how many of us have destroyed you on this thread alone? good God.


you honor "taqiya" bro. maybe you're a former Muslim yourself? cast out from your family for being gay, leading you to apostasy??

MIND BLOWN

 

[weed]

Hahahaha this can't be true

it is dude! he saw a dude with a Palestinian scarf, deemed him to be a terrorist & ran away onward home to cry on Sherdog about it. I posted pics of famous celebs wearing those same scarves proving him wrong because he believes they are terrorist fashion gear haha

 

[dissolved]

Coming from the guy who said family don't count as relatives. Lel

Now you're misquoting me. This is actually what I said:

This is a smaller difference, but "family" as you wrote it denotes a closeness moreso than "some relatives" as the Hadith puts it.

 

[dissolved]

Hahahaha this can't be true

No it isn't. Read the post where I tell what happened. His memory fails him.

 

[dissolved]

as expected, you misconstrue points I've made & make them out to be something else entirely. you can't even comprehend what you read because your hubris prevents you from doing so.

no stories were blended together - wake up, you are not responding accordingly. your misdirection tactics do not work on me. you can't even remember the argument over the bar incident.

its amazing you are the only one always complimenting yourself - I don't even have to set traps up for you because in all of your replies, you end up exposing yourself all on your own.

all of your "arguments" literally strengthen my assessment that you indeed are batshit insane, socially inept & most significant of all considering this is an online forum, you are poor at debating - absolutely the worst on Sherdog that I've ever witnessed.

whatever it is you are, you're denying it. you lie, deny, & deceive incessantly. everything about confronting Muslim folks in the workplace is bullshit - you know it, we all know it. you seem to believe none of us are business professionals - joke's on you. adhering to the code of conduct at a workplace applies to all industries regardless. you're fooling no one dude.

how many of us have destroyed you on this thread alone? good God.


you honor "taqiya" bro. maybe you're a former Muslim yourself? cast out from your family for being gay, leading you to apostasy??

MIND BLOWN

And you've resorted to changing my words in a post.

This is what I said:

Well anyway, it looks to me like you're doing lots of posting, deferring, not much reading etc. Then running me down.

Cheers anyway.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Now you're misquoting me. This is actually what I said:

Are relatives family or not? Yes or no?

 

[dissolved]

This is a post straight-up filled with lies.

as expected, you misconstrue points I've made & make them out to be something else entirely. you can't even comprehend what you read because your hubris prevents you from doing so.

No I didn't, you resorted to lying. This is clear from your changing my quote in this thread.

no stories were blended together

Yes you have blended stories and details together. I even had to remind who else was in one of those threads talking with me.

wake up, you are not responding accordingly. your misdirection tactics do not work on me. you can't even remember the argument over the bar incident.

Sure I remember. I explained them EXACTLY as they happened.

What YOU don't remember is jumping all over me with nonsense, slander and lies like you're doing here. And you're proving it yet again.

its amazing you are the only one always complimenting yourself

Where did I compliment myself?

- I don't even have to set traps up for you because in all of your replies, you end up exposing yourself all on your own.

This hasn't happened yet and you're mad and lying it seems as I've been attempting a civil discourse with you and maybe this is making you angry and you're resorting to low-level arguing tactics? Seems like a reasonable judgement by me.

all of your "arguments" literally strengthen my assessment that you indeed are batshit insane, socially inept & most significant of all considering this is an online forum, you are poor at debating - absolutely the worst on Sherdog that I've ever witnessed.

I answered all your posts respectfully and thoroughly. So if this is whatever you're saying here, then it certainly isn't my problem

whayevet it is you are, you're denying it. you lie, deny, & deceive incessantly. everything about confronting Muslim folks in the workplace is bullshit - you know it, we all know it. you seem to believe none of us are business professionals - joke's on you. adhering to the code of conduct at a workplace applies to all industries regardless. you're fooling no one dude.

Did you even read my posts in this thread? Everything you're writing here is jumbled nonsense.

I work and talk respectfully with my Muslim coworkers. I don't come anywhere close to breaking a code of conduct. That's your narrative, not mine. Nor have I EVER said it otherwise.

how many of us have destroyed you on this thread alone? good God.

No one has. You said yourself just a few posts ago that you never read the OPs (3 posts). You also said you never read through the thread.

you honor "taqiya" bro. maybe you're a former Muslim yourself? cast out from your family for being gay, leading you to apostasy??

MIND BLOWN

I don't honor taqiyya. I made this thread to expose it.

I'm starting to think, actually, that you're a non-practicing/ex-Muslim or somethin g tbh.

Finally, I'm pretty sure some of the source to your posting here comes from me offending at one or two points in the past - I think in the conversations you referred to and I rightly corrected you on. I apologized before to you if and even I did, but you're dragging this on strangely.

 

[Armbars]

All the three muslims i work with dont like me much, i think my sense of humour disgusts them . One of them is an Iraqi lady, she joined in the tail-end of a discussion on middle east conflicts, past and current. She concluded that America is to blame for all of them, and that Britain is no better. She beleives America is a war hungry nation.

She worries me, and I can't help but wonder why on earth she lives here. I think our kids will all end up facing the same angry off springs in years to come as we do today who beat on about slavery like they just broke out of it. Worlds fucked i tell you.

 

[dissolved]

Are relatives family or not? Yes or no?

I said earlier that "family" denotes closeness more than "some relatives" to me. Rarely will a person refer to their son or daughter or wife as "some relatives." They'll usually say, "my family" and even specify by, "my wife, son's and daughters." That is the normal way people speak and I would expect that normal usage is spoken of in the Hadith, where "some relatives" would be closer to saying, "extended family," or "an aunt" or "cousins" or "an uncle."

 

[dissolved]

All the three muslims i work with dont like me much, i think my sense of humour disgusts them . One of them is an Iraqi lady, she joined in the tail-end of a discussion on middle east conflicts, past and current. She concluded that America is to blame for all of them, and that Britain is no better. She beleives America is a war hungry nation.

She worries me, and I can't help but wonder why on earth she lives here. I think our kids will all end up facing the same angry off springs in years to come as we do today who beat on about slavery like they just broke out of it. Worlds fucked i tell you.

This is the case most times - that I've seen.

I made a thread a few a days ago with this clip in the OP: