The Loser mentality inside MMA media when arguing about Khabib

[Peli]

I've listened to multiple media outlets, read multiple articles and it seems like everyone values a loss or adversity for MMA and find some way to hold that against Khabib(but not Jon or Izzy)

As @Ufcmaster , Dan Hardy has been preaching for about a year plus about Khabib not having a loss as a fighter. Says a fight on your record forces you to correct your mistakes and get you better as a fighter. I listened to a pocast which shall be named where one author argued that they value GSP's record over Khabib's because GSP has losses on his record and how he over came that. What? It's one thing to value his record, the quality of opponents, but simply because he has losses on his record? What?

Khabib is fighting elite level competition and dominating them. Why does he need to lose to prove he's great?



I agree failure can be life's best teacher, but I don't think you need to lose to necessarily get better. Khabib has shown us how much better than he is against everyone else, but he hasn't shown us the best khabib out there.

 

[TheMessiah]

Dan Hardy is a one dimensional fighter who gets triggered by 13 year olds on twitter. Wouldn't be ranked in today's division

 

[Peli]

Dan Hardy is a one dimensional fighter who gets triggered by 13 year olds on twitter. Wouldn't be ranked in today's division

He's not the only dude saying stuff like this lol. Just the one that's been the vocal about the losses. There were a handful before 254 and a select after. By writers, fighters. Etc.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Nothing Dan says in the clip is wrong.

Other than that Khabib will learn, he won't if he's retired.

 

[TFK20]

Khabib should move up to 170 and fight real wrestlers instead of weight bullying

 

[Benoitthegr8]

Hardy improved immensely during that 4 fight losing streak, he took that huge step up in competition and snapped that losing streak over perennial contender Duane Ludwig...

Dan wasn’t nearly as good a fighter as he fancies himself to be.

 

[kflo]

Obviously it’s stupid to hold against someone not having any losses. People go to the extremes in these discussions. Losses are overstated as well.

Khabib’s record and performances have been amazing and he’s clearly among the best to ever do it. He wasn’t at the top for as many fights as some of his peers in the goat discussion. So ultimately his case will have supporters and detractors and there is no right or wrong answer, but he’s obviously in the mix.

 

[Peli]

Nothing Dan says in the clip is wrong.

Other than that Khabib will learn, he won't if he's retired.

I didn't say it was wrong. I'm just saying when they are assessing his career. They never say that about others. Its not necessarily true. That doesn't mean its wrong, but he's applying this "Failure is the best teacher" to absolute. He said Khabib would be exposed in his striking because its never been tested. Wasn't exposed at all.

 

[Ahmed Masood]

I've listened to multiple media outlets, read multiple articles and it seems like everyone values a loss or adversity for MMA and find some way to hold that against Khabib(but not Jon or Izzy)

As @Ufcmaster , Dan Hardy has been preaching for about a year plus about Khabib not having a loss as a fighter. Says a fight on your record forces you to correct your mistakes and get you better as a fighter. I listened to a pocast which shall be named where one author argued that they value GSP's record over Khabib's because GSP has losses on his record and how he over came that. What? It's one thing to value his record, the quality of opponents, but simply because he has losses on his record? What?

Khabib is fighting elite level competition and dominating them. Why does he need to lose to prove he's great?



I agree failure can be life's best teacher, but I don't think you need to lose to necessarily get better. Khabib has shown us how much better than he is against everyone else, but he hasn't shown us the best khabib out there.

I think sometimes guys like Dan Hardy mistake not having a loss with not facing adversity. Like you just coast through your career without facing a challenge. Khabib may have never lost an MMA contest but thats not to say he hasnt faced adversity.

I think arguably the most important fight in Khabibs career was the Tibau fight. The scorecards may say Khabib won all 3 rounds via UD but anyone whos watched the fight knows how Khabib struggled to impose his will vs Tibau. I think he scored 0 TD's in that fight. I genuinely think that fight changed Khabib when you see his emotion after the victory, and as hard as he had worked till that point, i think it just encouraged him to work harder on his striking, grappling and wrestling. I think without the Tibau fight, Khabib would arguably not be as dominant a fighter as we see today, so he clearly learnt more from a "victory" than a loss.

I think the mindset of MMA fighters is to view failure as a learning opportunity. Difference is the average MMA fighters views losses as failure whereas guys like Khabib, GSP, JBJ and other GOATS internally view close victories as failures, so learn from their victories rather than just their defeats.

 

[Greta Thunberg]

5,000+ posts since June? Three Khabib threads by you on the front page just today.
Dude, Khabib is retired now, time to take a break from white Knighting for him and
live your life some.

You see that big rectangle thing at the top of the basement stairs? Turn the shiny
round thing in the middle and push gently. It's a scary world out there but you can
do this TS, I believe in you.

 

[Peli]

5,000+ posts since June? Three Khabib threads by you on the front page just today.
Dude, Khabib is retired now, time to take a break from white Knighting for him and
live your life some.

You see that big rectangle thing at the top of the basement stairs? Turn the shiny
round thing in the middle and push gently. It's a scary world out there but you can
do this TS, I believe in you.

Outside is scary though.


There are no basements where I'm at.

 

[flowoftruth]

thats because dan hardy is a LOSER. his biggest claim to fame is getting his ass whooped by GSP.
Yet he complains about T.Ferg carrying around a belt he rightfully earned

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

I've listened to multiple media outlets, read multiple articles and it seems like everyone values a loss or adversity for MMA and find some way to hold that against Khabib(but not Jon or Izzy)

As @Ufcmaster , Dan Hardy has been preaching for about a year plus about Khabib not having a loss as a fighter. Says a fight on your record forces you to correct your mistakes and get you better as a fighter. I listened to a pocast which shall be named where one author argued that they value GSP's record over Khabib's because GSP has losses on his record and how he over came that. What? It's one thing to value his record, the quality of opponents, but simply because he has losses on his record? What?

Khabib is fighting elite level competition and dominating them. Why does he need to lose to prove he's great?



I agree failure can be life's best teacher, but I don't think you need to lose to necessarily get better. Khabib has shown us how much better than he is against everyone else, but he hasn't shown us the best khabib out there.

Teddy atlas said something similer about mike tyson. "A fight is a fight when there is something to overcome, and whey mike had to ovecome something, he failed every time." Thats not exactly what he said, but you get the idea.

I disagree with dan and teddy, but i see dans point about GSP. Avenging loses is a very strong point in favor of a fighter imo. Idk who the goat is but i think both GSP and khabib are in the conversation.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

Obviously it’s stupid to hold against someone not having any losses. People go to the extremes in these discussions. Losses are overstated as well.

Khabib’s record and performances have been amazing and he’s clearly among the best to ever do it. He wasn’t at the top for as many fights as some of his peers in the goat discussion. So ultimately his case will have supporters and detractors and there is no right or wrong answer, but he’s obviously in the mix.

This is why I think he has an argument as being the best ever, rather than goat

Stats don't back goat claim, but his domination over quality fighters gives him the case as being the best ever to do it

I think in boxing terms Ray Leonard and duran are good examples

Leonard has the better wins, but duran had many more fights over a much longer span

Most would rank duran higher on goat lists, but I doubt many think he is really the better fighter, despite winning the first fight

Floyd and manny are more recent examples

I always thought of Floyd as better, but is he greater? I don't think so

 

[Peli]

Teddy atlas said something similer about mike tyson. "A fight is a fight when there is something to overcome, and whey mike had to ovecome something, he failed every time." Thats not exactly what he said, but you get the idea.

I disagree with dan and teddy, but i see dans point about GSP. Avenging loses is a very strong point in favor of a fighter imo. Idk who the goat is but i think both GSP and khabib are in the conversation.

I think the nod would go to GSP simply because of accolades and quality of opponents. If Khabib fought 1 or 2 more times, people might give him the realistic edge. He'd be 15-0 in the ufc, second to silva who was a drug cheat and would have 5 LW title defenses. Another thing against Khabib that people will hold him against him is that he didn't beat different generations of fighters. Jones beat the guys that were at their peak before he got there, beat the guys that rose along side him(cormier, gus) and beat the gneration that was coming up (reyes - I know. He arguably lost) Where as khabib has only beaten his generation of fighters.

 

[Jose Beehive]

I didn't say it was wrong. I'm just saying when they are assessing his career. They never say that about others. Its not necessarily true. That doesn't mean its wrong, but he's applying this "Failure is the best teacher" to absolute. He said Khabib would be exposed in his striking because its never been tested. Wasn't exposed at all.

Dan has been saying that mantra for ages, he didn't say he needs to learn that lesson did he? just that he hasn't learnt that lesson ...
Didn't say he WOULD be exposed, said he could be.

 

[MCS]

I get the point they're making about adjustments, showing character and overcoming loss mirroring life. But it is a philosophical point of view more so than explaining reality. Mind vs heart. Because coming back from a loss puts you in the hearts of the people. No one is perfect, right? Yet the few who never lose are the closest to perfection, which every fighter strives for, and that puts those few in a separate class.

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

I think the nod would go to GSP simply because of accolades and quality of opponents. If Khabib fought 1 or 2 more times, people might give him the realistic edge. He'd be 15-0 in the ufc, second to silva who was a drug cheat and would have 5 LW title defenses. Another thing against Khabib that people will hold him against him is that he didn't beat different generations of fighters. Jones beat the guys that were at their peak before he got there, beat the guys that rose along side him(cormier, gus) and beat the gneration that was coming up (reyes - I know. He arguably lost) Where as khabib has only beaten his generation of fighters.

Yeah there is something to be said for beating multiple generations.

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Bullshit argument.

Better points are the over 50% of bush league fighters on his record and the ridiculous drop off in activity once he made it to the big leagues.

not to mention his low number of title defenses.

Those are legitimate reasons to criticize his granted request to become p4p number one — which I think is something Ali put him up to btw. Lmao

 

[kflo]

This is why I think he has an argument as being the best ever, rather than goat

Stats don't back goat claim, but his domination over quality fighters gives him the case as being the best ever to do it

I think in boxing terms Ray Leonard and duran are good examples

Leonard has the better wins, but duran had many more fights over a much longer span

Most would rank duran higher on goat lists, but I doubt many think he is really the better fighter, despite winning the first fight

Floyd and manny are more recent examples

I always thought of Floyd as better, but is he greater? I don't think so

not bad. leonard's peak certainly didn't last as long as many other greats but his elite wins and his skills were undeniable and obvious. i do think many still rank duran ahead of him due to their head-to-head (although their first fight was very close) and duran being the goat lw (although duran's lw resume is actually a bit like khabibs!). the floyd manny debate there's also no right answer. i do think in the end more would put floyd ahead as goat vs manny.