The kickfighting establishment is rotten to the core

[jtwarwagon4life]

Yes, some do train and fight in western boxing and do great, but again if you take a typical stadium MT fighter who doesn't focus on western boxing unlike the Banchamek and Sitsongpeenong camps do, their hands typically won't be their strength.

Here are some links to threads and articles detailing the exploits of muay thai fighters at the world level in boxing, if that doesnt convince you that boxing is something which alot of muay thai fighters are good at, especially if the standard is your average euro kickboxer, then I cant help you:

http://www.siamfightmag.com/en/muay...pions-of-muay-thai-and-the-boxing-in-thailand
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/thailand-at-the-1996-atlanta-games.3492813/#post-128247191http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/thailand-at-the-1996-atlanta-games.3492813/#post-128247191
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/s...thailand-in-the-2016-brazil-olympics.2950333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/w...y-thai-and-kickboxing.3440847/#post-125760375
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/kickboxing-boxing-crossovers.3259241/

Your typical stadium thai does train and compete in boxing. There is nothing special about the way fighters from Sitsongpeenong and Banchamek train. I will list some muay thai fighters who clearly fit the definition of "typical stadium fighter" and they all box:
Saenchai
Petchboonchu
Palangpol
Yodwicha
Sam A
Sangmanee
Superbank
Phitchitchai
Kongsak
Yodlekpet
Thaksinlek
Jomthong
Manachai
Diesellek
Petpanomrung
Panomrunglek
Newlukrak
and many many more.
These guys have nothing in common, except that they do muay thai and box. They dont train at the same camps (let alone Sitsongpeenong and Banchamek) and dont fight even remotely similar in muay thai.


You clearly just don't know anything about muay thai culture. The fact that you think there is something special about Sitsongpeenong and Banchamek just goes to show that you only follow kickboxing and have a totally Eurocentric viewpoint.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Don't see how wanting to see the best fighters makes you a 'purist'. This type of thinking would be ludicrous in pretty much every other sport that I follow. And it's not like jtwarwagon is asking for the entire roster to be thai either.......

Yep. To be honest I dont want to see every kickboxing division be filled up at the top end with thais. I just want people to admit that the thais have been amazingly successful in kickboxing despite being systematically discriminated against and put at a major disadvantage by promoters.

 

[oyvindt]

they almost always are. Successful marketing is about catering to the casual fan and having them dip into their pocket. Purism is about catering to the hardcore fan. The two sets of fans often have markedly different criteria for what they would consider interesting.

Think of all the people with absolutely dead flat personalities who have made a fortune in fight sports - not many.
Contrast that with the amount of guys who are popular well above the level of their skills/fighting ability - quite a lot.

Charisma and personality are huge parts of marketing. Hence it does not make sense for a promotion to fill its ranks with people who cannot communicate with fans.

And this extends to fighters from anywhere - Marat Grigorian is a killer, but can he tell you his story? Harut Grigorian has a crazy style and brings the war - do you know a thing about him?

Artem Vakhitov is pound for pound one of the best in kickboxing right now but his profile remains low. He however is working super hard on his English right now with a view to changing this, being able to engage with western audiences and thereby translating that into higher profile, which means sponsors and more money. And makes him more saleable.

The long and short of it is that a promotion doesn't need more than a handful of good Thai fighters same as it doesn't need more than a handful of good Chinese or good French or good Russian.

And for sure Glory would sign Superbon and Yod if they were not locked up super tight in their Chinese contracts.

no need to explain me this as i agree to most you are saying here, i was just pointing out that most of chinese promoters' success is based on what seems unconceivable for western promoters.

not everybody has a story to tell like buakaw or petrosyan; but when the fighter like grigorian or sittichai for example, have nothing to say or have no clue how to, you hire the right ppl to handle it....attention whores on ig have a basic team,i find it incredible the best kb of this era don't.

kunlun doesn't sign rigid contracts so i hope to see them in glory especially bon as in terms of marketability is the best candidate.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

This has been debunked multiple times though. Lumping all thai boxers in under one umbrella doesn't work given that there so many different sub styles of muay thai within thailand. Yes there are fighters like muangthai that rarely throw punches but there are also guys like tanonchai and petchartchai that throw a lot of punches. Throwing a higher quantity of punches doesnt mean you are a better boxer either, and it should be noted that punches are more easily stifled under thai rules than kickboxing. I mean there are so many examples of muay thai fighters doing well in boxing....Significantly more than european fighters.

And when I complain that there is a serious problem with misinformation about muay thai and that people are contributing to an overwhelmingly negative view of Thai fighters, then I get called 'paranoid' or 'delusional' or 'an elitist' or whatever. Supposedly these problems are exclusive to noobs who hardly ever post on here or guys commenting on Lawrence Kenshin youtube videos. But there are people like KBE6EKCTAH_CCP and Tayski, who are respected and supposedly intelligent, members of this community who believe exactly the same shit.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Yes, some do train and fight in western boxing and do great, but again if you take a typical stadium MT fighter who doesn't focus on western boxing unlike the Banchamek and Sitsongpeenong camps do, their hands typically won't be their strength.

Have you ever actually watched fighters from Sitsongpeenong compete in the stadiums? There is no difference between the way they fight and your average stadium fighter does. Their hands dont look any better and they pretty much never use them.

 

[AbeRudder]

because most of the other sports you follow are not marketed around individuals and personalities the way that fight sports are. It's why charisma is such a huge part of fight sports and why Conor McGregor is a star and Matt Lindland / Jon Fitch / Rory McDonald are not.

I will try and articulate my thoughts on this more thoroughly later but I think a top quality product comes first and the marketing comes second, the UFC is an example of that. I think a lot of people have misinterpreted McGregor's success in MMA.....

 

[Thycidides]

part of the problem is the European fighters will spam punches when they fight a Thai, who will almost always have the clinch and kick advantage.

I noticed this in Pet vs Ulyonov. The commentators made that fight seem close than it was. They talked about Ulyonov as if he had an advantage with the punches but really his kicks were non existent and the punches were the only weapon he had.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Posting ranting giant walls of text will definitely encourage organizations to sign a slew more fighters who don't speak english, don't come from a $-value market and don't have a high finish rate.

Thongchai, Sitthichai and Petchpanomrung read your post and are now concerned that two of them have to leave Glory to comply with the one-Thai rule that nobody knew existed. Pick two and let them know they have to bail.

So on the one hand you're saying that Glory doesn't discriminate against thais and on the other hand you're defending Glory for discriminating against thais. Makes sense.

 

[jj manchester]

So on the one hand you're saying that Glory doesn't discriminate against thais and on the other hand you're defending Glory for discriminating against thais. Makes sense.

on the one hand you're saying Glory has a one-thai rule and on the other hand you are quoting a post that lists three Thai fighters currenty active in Glory, Makes sense.

 

[jj manchester]

Muay Thai Premier League is your idea of a "purist" promotion? Hahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many thais did they have? like 2? Niecky Holken and Marco Pique are sure representative of what every muay thai "purist" wants to see! HHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAA! You are a total idiot.

right, you're the one ranting online in caps lock and battering the !!!!!!!!! button but I'm a total idiot,sure.

Muay Thai Premier League was purist in the sense it tried promoting pure Muay Thai and failed; People don't care for it, because it's a bit alien to them, the same as they don't care to see ten, twenty Thai fighters in each kickboxing weight class. NOBODY GIVES A FUCK, EXCEPT YOU.

Suggestion for you: go and watch Muay Thai from Thailand, you will be a lot happier. Channel7 awaits you.

 

[jj manchester]

Ok. First of all as I already said pretty much all thais box. They pretty much all compete in boxing and cross train in it. There is nothing special about the way Buakaw, Yodsanklai, Sittichai, and whichever other thais who have had success in kickboxing, train. Buakaw came from Por Pramuk gym. This gym produced two world boxing champions both of whom were former nak muays and other guys at the camp like Namsaknoi also boxed, albeit at a lower level. So it is actually quite likely that Buakaw was exposed to and knowledgeable about boxing way before he came into K1. Especially since, according to you, he knew nothing about boxing prior to his run in k1 and then miraculously was able to become a good enough boxer in the space of just over a year to pwn guys like Souwer, Holzken, Drago, with his hands, who according to you have great boxing. The most likely reason he fought the way he did during the 2004 K1 WGP is because first of all it worked and second of all it was how he was used to fighting in muay thai. Once K1 changed the rules he already had his boxing technique in his back pocket and now had to use it.

And Sato ko'd him with a knee, it had nothing to do with boxing.

can you please INSERT SOME FUCKING LINE BREAKS IN YOUR WALLS OF TEXT


Let me show you, this below is what spaced normal writing looks like for normal people to read. Post like that in future or don't expect anyone to read your wall of shit.

Ok. First of all as I already said pretty much all thais box. They pretty much all compete in boxing and cross train in it. There is nothing special about the way Buakaw, Yodsanklai, Sittichai, and whichever other thais who have had success in kickboxing, train.

Buakaw came from Por Pramuk gym. This gym produced two world boxing champions both of whom were former nak muays and other guys at the camp like Namsaknoi also boxed, albeit at a lower level. So it is actually quite likely that Buakaw was exposed to and knowledgeable about boxing way before he came into K1.

Especially since, according to you, he knew nothing about boxing prior to his run in k1 and then miraculously was able to become a good enough boxer in the space of just over a year to pwn guys like Souwer, Holzken, Drago, with his hands, who according to you have great boxing.

The most likely reason he fought the way he did during the 2004 K1 WGP is because first of all it worked and second of all it was how he was used to fighting in muay thai. Once K1 changed the rules he already had his boxing technique in his back pocket and now had to use it.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

can you please INSERT SOME FUCKING LINE BREAKS IN YOUR WALLS OF TEXT


Let me show you, this below is what spaced normal writing looks like for normal people to read. Post like that in future or don't expect anyone to read your wall of shit.

Ok. First of all as I already said pretty much all thais box. They pretty much all compete in boxing and cross train in it. There is nothing special about the way Buakaw, Yodsanklai, Sittichai, and whichever other thais who have had success in kickboxing, train.

Buakaw came from Por Pramuk gym. This gym produced two world boxing champions both of whom were former nak muays and other guys at the camp like Namsaknoi also boxed, albeit at a lower level. So it is actually quite likely that Buakaw was exposed to and knowledgeable about boxing way before he came into K1.

Especially since, according to you, he knew nothing about boxing prior to his run in k1 and then miraculously was able to become a good enough boxer in the space of just over a year to pwn guys like Souwer, Holzken, Drago, with his hands, who according to you have great boxing.

The most likely reason he fought the way he did during the 2004 K1 WGP is because first of all it worked and second of all it was how he was used to fighting in muay thai. Once K1 changed the rules he already had his boxing technique in his back pocket and now had to use it.

Why does every poster on here, who disagrees with me, want to be my 9th grade english teacher?

 

[jj manchester]

Have you ever actually watched fighters from Sitsongpeenong compete in the stadiums? There is no difference between the way they fight and your average stadium fighter does. Their hands dont look any better and they pretty much never use them.

because the scoring is different; jesus fucking christ what is wrong with you?

 

[Kanka]

So then why do kickboxers suck at boxing, seeing as how their hands are so much better than muay thai fighters? If you interpret the question can Thai fighters box literally, the answer is obviously yes. They have the credentials to prove it. If you stick the average stadium nak muay against your average kickboxing in a boxing bout, the Thai is almost certainly going to win. Seeing as how they actually train and compete in boxing. It isn't just a few muay thai fighters who have won titles in boxing or had success, virtually every Thai who's had success in boxing has come from a muay thai background and usually a deep one. And there are a zillion other former nak muays who accomplish good things in boxing even if they never win major titles, certainly way more than most kickboxers ever. Where is the evidence that your average kickboxer from Europe has better

Have you ever actually watched fighters from Sitsongpeenong compete in the stadiums? There is no difference between the way they fight and your average stadium fighter does. Their hands dont look any better and they pretty much never use them.

Sittichai and Superbon both train their hands more for kickboxing fights compared to stadium fights, and even train with boxing coaches. Not sure what your point is... pretty sure fighters train differently if they're training for a muay thai fight, a kickboxing fight or a boxing fight.

 

[jj manchester]

Why does every poster on here, who disagrees with me, want to be my 9th grade english teacher?

Because you are filling people's screens with pointless walls of shit that nobody can fucking read. Do you understand that? If you post a giant block of text, nobody can read it, so what the fuck is the point of you writing it in the first place?

Or are you writing things that you don't want people to read, like a proper crazy person?

 

[jj manchester]

this guy is a troll; nobody can be this stupid in real life. He is baiting reactions.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

because the scoring is different; jesus fucking christ what is wrong with you?

I know that, but so do all fighters from other camps as well. But apparently Sitsongpeenong produces special fighters who can box when they choose, and have way better boxing than stadium fighters from other camps who can't box at all.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Sittichai and Superbon both train their hands more for kickboxing fights compared to stadium fights, and even train with boxing coaches. Not sure what your point is... pretty sure fighters train differently if they're training for a muay thai fight, a kickboxing fight or a boxing fight.

And all the stadium fighters that I brought up, who compete in boxing, don't train with boxing coaches?

 

[Kanka]

About the way thais are underrepresented in kickboxing organisations: you have to see it from a business perspective aswell. I'm sure if they didn't have scarce resources and didn't need to maximize profit every year they could hire more thais. If signing more thais turns out to be profitable we will probably continue to see more thais getting signed by glory. Let's not act like we know how to run their business better than them when we have no idea about their financial status and insider info.

 

[Kanka]

And all the stadium fighters that I brought up, who compete in boxing, don't train with boxing coaches?

Yeah as i said they train differently for every sport they compete in. Yodwicha himself said he trained differently for international fights. Superbon as said he had to work on his hands specifically to improve his kickboxing.

Boxing =/= kickboxing =/= muay thai.

I don't think being a good boxer equates to being a great kickboxer. We all saw how Yoan Kongolo got picked apart by Doumbe and how Jomthong got overwhelmed by Qui Jian Liang.

I don't think Sittichai, Superbon, Kaew and Buakaw are even top 20 boxers with a muay thai background but probably the best kickboxers.