The Jordan Peterson Thread - V2 -

[RubberGuard5]

To look pretty. Same reason some guys will use hair gel/wax or whatever. I won't debate the rest of Peterson's work but that clip is quite jarring. He sounds like the neanderthals that have propped him up to messiah status.

The suggestion that women use lipstick because it simulates sexual arousal is just so off the field that I'm kinda stunned. Let's ignore the fact that not all lipsticks are red (in fact most used on a day to day basis aren't), does anyone reallly think that women in general put it on thinking "yes, this will make me look sexually aroused and all those men around me will go apeshit" while laughing diabolically? Maybe it's just the fact that for multiple reasons that is a standard of beauty so they strive towards that. You know, Occam's razor and all.

The lipstick premise he uses seems to be consensus among evolutionary psychologists. They've conducted experiments, and cross-culturally, men rate women wearing red lipstick more attractive than any other color. The fact that the same standard of beauty makes it more believable that there is a biological reason for it. It simulates sexual arousal.

For the other part, you are confusing proximal with the ultimate explanation. Proximal explanation answers the question why women think they are wearing make up, what makes then inclined to do so. The answer is that it makes them feel good to look pretty. The ultimate explanation is the darwinian why, why did women evolve to do things like wear make up. The answer is because it helps in sexual selection. It doesn't for men, so men didn't evolve to wear make up.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

 

[Rational Poster]

The problem isn't Peterson haters or Peterson, it's Peterson cultists.

There is nothing revolutionary going on here.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

The problem isn't Peterson haters or Peterson, it's Peterson cultists.

There is nothing revolutionary going on here.

Why are Dr. Jordan Peterson cultists a problem?

 

[Bald1]

The lipstick premise he uses seems to be consensus among evolutionary psychologists. They've conducted experiments, and cross-culturally, men rate women wearing red lipstick more attractive than any other color. The fact that the same standard of beauty makes it more believable that there is a biological reason for it. It simulates sexual arousal.

For the other part, you are confusing proximal with the ultimate explanation. Proximal explanation answers the question why women think they are wearing make up, what makes then inclined to do so. The answer is that it makes them feel good to look pretty. The ultimate explanation is the darwinian why, why did women evolve to do things like wear make up. The answer is because it helps in sexual selection. It doesn't for men, so men didn't evolve to wear make up.

For a bunch of people making fun of a potentially stupid statement (didn't watch, so no idea if the accusation is true or not), there is a lot of ignorance about the reasoning behind wearing makeup.

Blush and lipstick to mimick a face flushed with blood, and eye makeup to give the impression of larger eyes therefore making pupils appear dialated. All sexual signaling. Yeah, it's an effort to look "pretty", but pretty means aroused an ready to mate to our evolutionary programming. Some sickos are still slaves to biology and see simulated cues as legit, while other simpletons refuse to accept that our evolutionary inheritance still has sway over us. So yes kids, while not an excuse, wearing makeup can be a trigger for the less evolved amongst us, in the same way as not wearing a burka can be a trigger in Afghanistan. Get over it, realize we're animals, then move on from there.

Meanwhile, Peterson keeps trying to tell anyone who will listen that while evolution has created roles for us we're not binary, there are outliers, but yes, dammit, there are reasons for many of our behaviours.

 

[Rational Poster]

Why are Dr. Jordan Peterson cultists a problem?

They've turned him into a charlatan that can do no wrong or say no wrong. Everything is taken as gospel.

Critics are as you put it, are lacking credibility, misinformed, or are too dumb to understand.

He's gone from a youtube self help psychologist offering psychology 101 type advice to a purveyor of anti-marxist conspiracy with dashes of the blatant misogyny that they also love at the behest of the depressed 4chan types that follow his every word and line his pockets.

 

[Rational Poster]

The lipstick premise he uses seems to be consensus among evolutionary psychologists. They've conducted experiments, and cross-culturally, men rate women wearing red lipstick more attractive than any other color. The fact that the same standard of beauty makes it more believable that there is a biological reason for it. It simulates sexual arousal.

For the other part, you are confusing proximal with the ultimate explanation. Proximal explanation answers the question why women think they are wearing make up, what makes then inclined to do so. The answer is that it makes them feel good to look pretty. The ultimate explanation is the darwinian why, why did women evolve to do things like wear make up. The answer is because it helps in sexual selection. It doesn't for men, so men didn't evolve to wear make up.

This isn't true, there have been many periods in history and many cultures in which it was in for men to wear makeup. It has often been seen as a status symbol.

Overt displays of wealth have been common attributes for men throughout history to appeal to the opposite sex. Wealthy in elites during the British hegemony wore makeup daily. Today even, our elite men wear makeup to improve their appearance on television since the famous JFK/Nixon debate.

 

[S-dot]

They've turned him into a charlatan that can do no wrong or say no wrong. Everything is taken as gospel.

Critics are as you put it, are lacking credibility, misinformed, or are too dumb to understand.

He's gone from a youtube self help psychologist offering psychology 101 type advice to a purveyor of anti-marxist conspiracy with dashes of the blatant misogyny that they also love at the behest of the depressed 4chan types that follow his every word and line his pockets.

Im a big fan of Peterson and Your characterization of him as mysogynist is wrong but I do think you have a very valid point about his cult-like followers. I saw him speak on Monday and there were definitely some people there who were worshipping him like an infallible god.

The thing is, this type of blind support is actually antithetical to everything he says. He talks openly and frequently about changing his opinion on things as he learns more because he was wrong about something previously, and actively encourages people to (honestly) question his ideas so together they work towards finding a better truth.

 

[Rational Poster]

Im a big fan of Peterson and Your characterization of him as mysogynist is wrong but I do think you have a very valid point about his cult-like followers. I saw him speak on Monday and there were definitely some people there who were worshipping him like an infallible god.

The thing is, this type of blind support is actually antithetical to everything he says. He talks openly and frequently about changing his opinion on things as he learns more because he was wrong about something previously, and actively encourages people to (honestly) question his ideas so together they work towards finding a better truth.

I don't mean to imply he is a misogynist, just some of his message is coated with it and comes off that way, and the woman haters out there eat it up. There is a huge cross section of sexually repressed/depressed woman haters and cultural marxist conspiracy junkies he has wrapped up in this, and I don't like it.

I do agree has a good message in terms of personal responsibility and the role of young men in society, but then he has this ridiculous cultural marxist /postmodern conspiracy that overshadows and overpowers all of it to me.

 

[RubberGuard5]

This isn't true, there have been many periods in history and many cultures in which it was in for men to wear makeup. It has often been seen as a status symbol.

Overt displays of wealth have been common attributes for men throughout history to appeal to the opposite sex. Wealthy in elites during the British hegemony wore makeup daily. Today even, our elite men wear makeup to improve their appearance on television since the famous JFK/Nixon debate.

Sure, there are examples of men wearing make up. You said it yourself, it is a display of status or wealth. That's why it is different type\style of make up than that used by women.

 

[Rational Poster]

Sure, there are examples of men wearing make up. You said it yourself, it is a display of status or wealth. That's why it is different type\style of make up than that used by women.

They used to redden their cheeks dude.

 

[S-dot]

I don't mean to imply he is a misogynist, just some of his message is coated with it and comes off that way, and the woman haters out there eat it up. There is a huge cross section of sexually repressed/depressed woman haters and cultural marxist conspiracy junkies he has wrapped up in this, and I don't like it.

I do agree has a good message in terms of personal responsibility and the role of young men in society, but then he has this ridiculous cultural marxist /postmodern conspiracy that overshadows and overpowers all of it to me.

Ya I know what you’re saying about people using his message for their own ends. It’s something I wanted to ask him at his speaking event but didn’t get the chance. In the same way some people take one thing he says and turn it against him and extrapolate a whole bunch of bad ideas, others take one thing he says and turn it turns their own cause and again extrapolate a bunch of bad ideas.

The Marxist thing, I kind of agree with you again but it’s a long nuanced issue. I’ll just say the ideas he rails against are obviously super fucked up and wrong, and very recently have been the cause of a lot of death. When you really dive deeply into the extreme darkness of any horrible ideology/event it’s hard to not let that colour more of your world perspective and the way you address things than you should.

 

[21 Savage]

Vice having zero credibility is not an ad hominem. It is a fact.

For someone who seems to hate Jordan Peterson so much you sure spend a lot of time posting (trolling) about him. You even post about him in threads that have nothing to do with Dr. Peterson.

1) false
2) cop out
3) i dont hate him

legit lol @ peterson doing an interview and then when that interview is uploaded his cultists refuse to watch or commentate on it because its just so dumb it has to be...a voiceover? smh

Exactly. The Peterson haters will find that out the hard way one day.

thats a very ironic thing for you to say considering JP just did a 2 hour vid with dave rubin trying to change the definition of truth lmao

Again, not true. As the video I embedded points out, the idea of making your bed is a metaphor for taking positive ownership of the small behavioral patterns in your life. “Control what you can control, dismiss the rest.” Rather than defaulting to the nihilistic helplessness of being a small, insignificant speck in a grand universe, Peterson is saying that for a depressed person, starting off with small steps and taking ownership allows them to get a sense of power or influence in their own lives. For others, it’s the process of continued self-actualization in living the kind of life that you’re happy with/want to live. I’m actually a little surprised that I had to break this down. I honestly expect more from people.

what is not true? literally everything you just said is irrelevant

no one is saying its bad advice, people are making fun of his fanbase which largely consists of white teenagers who fancy themselves intellectuals. to everyone else on the planet cleaning your room is a no-brainer for its obvious positive benefits. mom says it? not good enough. fancy doctor on the internet? well this is a glorious revelation lads amazing insight who could possibly have known? im actually a little surprised that I had to break this down. i honestly expect more from people.

also legit lol @ claiming "anti-Peterson zealots" are fascinated by something when even just explaining the joke to you makes you sperg out in full defense mode like:

>"muh nihilistic helplessness"
>"muh grand universe"
>"muh self-actualization"

good god man do you drones really not hear how you sound lmao

 

[21 Savage]

"women wear lipstick because their lips get red during sexual arousal"

oh ok i guess when they wear black lipstick they are trying to look like a dead person? or if they wear blue its because they want to make men think they just got done eating blueberries?

 

[Der Eisbär]

1) false
2) cop out
3) i dont hate him

legit lol @ peterson doing an interview and then when that interview is uploaded his cultists refuse to watch or commentate on it because its just so dumb it has to be...a voiceover? smh

thats a very ironic thing for you to say considering JP just did a 2 hour vid with dave rubin trying to change the definition of truth lmao

what is not true? literally everything you just said is irrelevant

no one is saying its bad advice, people are making fun of his fanbase which largely consists of white teenagers who fancy themselves intellectuals. to everyone else on the planet cleaning your room is a no-brainer for its obvious positive benefits. mom says it? not good enough. fancy doctor on the internet? well this is a glorious revelation lads amazing insight who could possibly have known? im actually a little surprised that I had to break this down. i honestly expect more from people.

also legit lol @ claiming "anti-Peterson zealots" are fascinated by something when even just explaining the joke to you makes you sperg out in full defense mode like:

>"muh nihilistic helplessness"
>"muh grand universe"
>"muh self-actualization"

good god man do you drones really not hear how you sound lmao

People don't waste your time on this loser. Leave him to worship at the alter of feminism and trans fetishizing . He can't put two coherent thoughts together and arguing with him will drive him further into idiocy.

 

[21 Savage]

People don't waste your time on this loser. Leave him to worship at the alter of feminism and trans fetishizing . He can't put two coherent thoughts together and arguing with him will drive him further into idiocy.

have u recovered from the mauling you received in your ham sarris thread yet lmao

dont reply i wont read it anyway

 

[o'dubhlaoich]

I still cant understand, is he religious or not??? Seriously asking.

I dont think he thinks there is a literal GOD in the sky. He just looks at the bible and sees what real life applications it has.

 

[Der Eisbär]

have u recovered from the mauling you received in your ham sarris thread yet lmao

dont reply i wont read it anyway

3-6 mafia lyrics
"RIP little Peep"
You shit on world class academics while you worship THIS

I feel bad for you. You're a loser. You've lost the game in life. You got indoctrinated into shitty life degrading pop culture and false idol worship.

"hey guys, academics and PHDs are IDIOTS, you should totally be worshipping my drugged up, crime promoting, woman hate promoting sub human IQ rap idols though"

 

[Rational Poster]

Ya I know what you’re saying about people using his message for their own ends. It’s something I wanted to ask him at his speaking event but didn’t get the chance. In the same way some people take one thing he says and turn it against him and extrapolate a whole bunch of bad ideas, others take one thing he says and turn it turns their own cause and again extrapolate a bunch of bad ideas.

The Marxist thing, I kind of agree with you again but it’s a long nuanced issue. I’ll just say the ideas he rails against are obviously super fucked up and wrong, and very recently have been the cause of a lot of death. When you really dive deeply into the extreme darkness of any horrible ideology/event it’s hard to not let that colour more of your world perspective and the way you address things than you should.

I feel like he's playing to the crowd at this point especially for the conspiracy junkies.

 

[sub_thug]

what is not true? literally everything you just said is irrelevant

no one is saying its bad advice, people are making fun of his fanbase which largely consists of white teenagers who fancy themselves intellectuals. to everyone else on the planet cleaning your room is a no-brainer for its obvious positive benefits. mom says it? not good enough. fancy doctor on the internet? well this is a glorious revelation lads amazing insight who could possibly have known? im actually a little surprised that I had to break this down. i honestly expect more from people.

also legit lol @ claiming "anti-Peterson zealots" are fascinated by something when even just explaining the joke to you makes you sperg out in full defense mode like:

>"muh nihilistic helplessness"
>"muh grand universe"
>"muh self-actualization"

good god man do you drones really not hear how you sound lmao

It's relevant because I had to explain it to you. And metaphors are easily understood, which is why people use them.

No, you weren't making fun of the fanbase, which would have been fine. I like Dr Peterson as a psychologist, but I think he offers non-expert opinions about sociology and politics. They are somewhat interesting, but I don't view them as gospel. Anyways, it was the fact that others have been reductionist and obtuse twats, so I posted a video that explained things in a simple and understandable way that ultimately negates much of the argument and dismissiveness. And then you commented back to me, starting this exchange. So if my video presumably offends you so much, who then might I ask is being defensive?

I explain things because obviously, people don't seem to understand them. And lol at you for using the "comedian defense." If you claim to be joking, then you get carte blanche, no? Isn't that how it works? So please, feel free to run back with your tail between your legs. You clearly have nothing to offer except ad hominems and oceans' worth of stupidity.