The Jon Jones opponents were past their prime/too small for him myth

[markys00]

He has the perfect body type / frame. A big muscular torso, long arms and long skinny legs which allows him to be massive without carrying too much weight. If he had thighs like Bendo or Cormier he would have been a heavyweight from the beginning and it would have been a different ball game.
He's actually perfectly suited for LHW and him coming from a wrestling background with a natural aptitude to learn other styles quickly make him the perfect fighter

Don't forget the picos. And the mental/sociopathic tendencies needed to be the best. It's a big part

 

[Poatan Power]

Machida wasn’t a middleweight when he was weighing in at 199, 201 and 202? Belfort wasn’t a middleweight when he was 204 fighting at middleweight for 5 years and only took the jones fight on a few weeks notice?

Funny you mention Vitor's MW history but ignore Machida's LHW history? Machida was the 205 lb champion with a title defense within a year and a half of fighting Jones. His previous 5 fights before Jones were 3 LHW title fights against Couture, Evans, Jackson, and Rua x 2. Machida made his 185 debut in 2013, two full years after losing to Jones @ LHW. So, obviously no he isn't a MW?

I said "a couple," FWIW. Vitor is a decent example although he was a 205 lb champion, so I think that's kind of silly. I think you misrepresenting Machida is even sillier.

Sonnen is a MW. Are you going to also mention the HW champions Jones has demolished like Gus and Bader? How about DC being UFC HW champ? Or just focus on Machida being a light LHW because he enjoyed the speed benefit it provided?

 

[Gamer2k4]

He has the perfect body type / frame. A big muscular torso, long arms and long skinny legs which allows him to be massive without carrying too much weight. If he had thighs like Bendo or Cormier he would have been a heavyweight from the beginning and it would have been a different ball game.
He's actually perfectly suited for LHW and him coming from a wrestling background with a natural aptitude to learn other styles quickly make him the perfect fighter

It's perfect in hindsight because he uses that frame well. But before Jones was champ, people were saying guys like Shogun would kick those scrawny legs apart.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Are you going to also mention the HW champions Jones has demolished like Gus and Bader? How about DC being UFC HW champ? Or just focus on Machida being a light LHW because he enjoyed the speed benefit it provided?

Yeah, if you look at Jones's opponents, something like a dozen of them (I've typed out the list a few times and can't be bothered to do it again) either had fought or would later fight at heavyweight. Yet he's the "weight bully" who only fights "blown up middleweights."

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

The stupendous audacity of trying to claim Shogun was bigger than Jones is where I stopped reading.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Jones crushed some killers, many in their primes.

Stipe is not one of them.

 

[Trabaho]

Claims to know what Jones weighted for 10 ywars straight

 

[RonDante]

Funny you mention Vitor's MW history but ignore Machida's LHW history? Machida was the 205 lb champion with a title defense within a year and a half of fighting Jones. His previous 5 fights before Jones were 3 LHW title fights against Couture, Evans, Jackson, and Rua x 2. Machida made his 185 debut in 2013, two full years after losing to Jones @ LHW. So, obviously no he isn't a MW?

I said "a couple," FWIW. Vitor is a decent example although he was a 205 lb champion, so I think that's kind of silly. I think you misrepresenting Machida is even sillier.

Sonnen is a MW. Are you going to also mention the HW champions Jones has demolished like Gus and Bader? How about DC being UFC HW champ? Or just focus on Machida being a light LHW because he enjoyed the speed benefit it provided?

Sonnen wasn’t even a middleweight to be honest. He was 220 pounds in the cage when he fought jones, atleast according to him, so i don’t even know why that’s the one you’re focusing on

Machida knocked out Rashad who was also small for light heavyweight, not as small as machida but within 10 pounds of each other. Then he fights shogun, who also had 20 pounds on him, and has a close fight, some say robbery, some don’t. Gets caught in the rematch, okay stuff happens. Fights rampage, argument for a robbery, the swing round is close because rampage pushes him against the fence, knocks out a 47 year old couture.

I’m curious what you think a middleweight is. To me a middleweight is generally between 195-210 pounds, obviously outliers like kopylov 193 and costa 215 exist but generally that’s it. Machida falls in that range so to me he’s a middleweight. Jones ~224 is clearly a light heavyweight.

Belfort being light heavyweight champion by cut doesn’t mean much when his record at light heavyweight wasn’t even particularly good and again, he fell in the range of middleweight. Before jones his LHW Record was 7-6 with 3 of those wins coming over fighters with no Wikis, so 4-6 against notable fighters. Then jones makes it 4-7 when Belfort fights him on 2 weeks notice after 5 years away from the division

Also i don’t understand why you’re calling gus a heavyweight champion? And bader being heavyweight champion in the b leagues really doesn’t mean much but sure, ufc light heavyweight that doesn’t want to cut in bellator is so much bigger than jones who said he was 227 against DC and is now 250

I’m focusing on machida being 20 pounds smaller than jones becuase the thread is about jones and his size advantage over certain fighters

 

[lefthighkick01]

I respect this post but it's pointless to argue with those with JJDS. They will never admit that Jon is actually a good fighter

Jon is a brilliant fighter, and he fought whoever they put in front of him. I don't think anyone can deny this.

However the evidence is there that the fighters that were close or matched him in size did really well or arguably beat him and that he came into that division at the right time.

having said that, I think he still would have done really well if he didn't have such size advantages over a lot of his opponents.

 

[WildShrimper]

Say what you will about Jones, his asterisks and what not.. still can't take away his run at LHW, I don't think anyone will top it anytime soon.

 

[StonedLemur]

Yes, lets leave out that Shogun had surgery on both knees and a severely broken arm in his career before that fight.

"Prime" is not a specific number.

 

[StonedLemur]

No way I'm reading all that.

I honestly don't care about Juicehead cheater enough to read the long winded revisionisms of his tainted career.

Just either fight, or fuck off Jon. Stop stalling up the division.

Lol...good post sir.

 

[StonedLemur]

Interesting. How does Jones cock taste like?

Lol

 

[RonDante]

Yes, lets leave out that Shogun had surgery on both knees and a severely broken arm in his career before that fight.

"Prime" is not a specific number.

Yep, 3 knee surgeries including in the months leading up to the jones fight. His record against the top guys after that final surgery isn’t very good

 

[HHJ]

Yes, lets leave out that Shogun had surgery on both knees and a severely broken arm in his career before that fight.

"Prime" is not a specific number.

I don't think Shogun could beat bones anyway.

I think the guys who really gave him the toughest tests are the ones who may have been able to beat him if he wasn't on the stuff. Like DC, Gus and possibly Crumble Johnson, though that seems more unlikely.

I think Jones really was just better than the guys he fought before them, roids or no.

Physically and stylistically he was a nightmare for a guy like Shogun.

 

[StonedLemur]

I don't think Shogun could beat bones anyway.

I think the guys who really gave him the toughest tests are the ones who may have been able to beat him if he wasn't on the stuff. Like DC, Gus and possibly Crumble Johnson, though that seems more unlikely.

I think Jones really was just better than the guys he fought before them, roids or no.

Physically and stylistically he was a nightmare for a guy like Shogun.

That may be true but Shogun would've looked a lot better than he did to be fair.

 

[Oddmonster]

Let me start of by saying Jon Jones started his carreer at light heavyweight, walking around at 219 lbs. He was a realitvely tall, skinny lean lightheavyweight. All his opponents he fought near the start of his career and the begging of his title reign looked larger and thicker than he did.

Jon Jones 23 walk around weight 215
vs
Ryan Bader 6'2" 27 years old, walk around weight at 230 lbs, started his career at light heavyweight, went on to win both the bellator lightheavyweight and heavyweight titles

Jon Jones 23 walk around weight 215
vs
Shogun 6'1" 29 years old, walk around weight 228 lbs, started his career at light heavyweight, was the champion before losing to Jon Jones

Jon Jones 24 walk around weight 215
vs
Rampage Jackson 6'1" 32 years old walked around at 230 lbs, started his career at light heavyweight, former lightheavyweight champion comming off his last reign being 2 years ago

Jon Jones 24 walk around weight 219
vs
Lyoto Machida 6'0" 33 years old, walked around weight 210 lbs, started his career at heavyweight, former lightheavyweight champion with his last reign being a year ago

Jon Jones 24 walk around weight 219
vs
Rashad Evans 5'11" 32 years old, walk around weight 230 lbs, started his career at heavyweight, fromer light heavyweight champion with his last reign being 3 years ago

Jon Jones 25 walk around weight 219
vs
Vitor Belfort 6' 34 years old, walk around weight 225 lbs, started his career at heavyweight, former lightheavyweight champion with his last reign being 5 years ago

Jon Jones 25 walk around weight 225
vs
Chael Sonnen 6'1" 35 years old, walk around weight 235 lbs, started his career at light heavyweight and drained himself to make middle weight

Jon Jones 26 walk around weight 219
vs
Alexander Gustafsson 6'5" 26 years old, walk around weight 230lbs, started his career at lightheavyweight

Jon Jones 26 walk around weight 225 lbs
vs
Glover Teixiera 6'1" 33 years old, walk around weight 225 lbs, started his career at lightheavyweight and was on a 20 fight win streak before losing to Jon Jones

Jon Jones 27 walk around weight 230 lbs
vs
Daniel Comrier 5'10" 35 years old, walk around weight 250 lbs, started his career at heavyweight, former strikeforce heavyweight champion, undefeated in mma and hadn't lost a round before losing to Jones

Jon Jones 28 walk around weight 230 lbs
vs
OSP 6'1" 30 years old, walk around weight 240 lbs, started his career at lightheavyweight

Jon Jones 30 walk around weight 230 lbs
vs
Daniel Cormier 38 years old, walk around weight 250 lbs, started his career at heavyweight former heavyweight and was at the time the reigning lightheavyweight title(lost durring the fight) had 3 defences before losing to Jones

Jon Jones 31 walk around weight 225 lbs
vs
Alexander Gustafsson 6'5" 31 years old, walk around weight 235 lbs, started his carreer at lightheavyweight later moved up to heavyweight

Jon Jones 31 walk around weight 235 lbs
vs
Anthony Smith 6'2" 33 years old, walk around weight 225 lbs, started his career at middle weight

Jon Jones 32 walk around weight 240 lbs
vs
Thiago Santos 6'0" 35 years old, walk around weight 225 lbs, started his career at middle weight

Jon Jones 32 walk around weight 235 lbs
vs
Dominick Reyes 6'4" 30 years old, walk around weight 225 lbs, started his carreer at lightheavyweight undefeated before losing to Jones

Jon Jones 35 walk around weight 247 lbs
vs
Cyril Gane 6'4" 33 years old, walk around weight 250 lbs, started his carreer at heavyweight

With the exception of machida and maybe thiago(who by all accounts was a huge middle weight to begin with, it seems all Jon Jones opponenets started their careers at either heavyweight or lightheavyweight, and the ones who foguth at middle weight actually had to drain themselves to make middleweight(see video of Sonnen durring weigh in with bisping) which is something Jon Jones has never had to do to fight at his natural weight class of light heavyweight.



As far as the age thing goes, it also doesn't seem like Jon Jones opponents were very old or past their primes. Most of them were in their early 30s or lates 20s and comming off title reigns, fantastic wins, or even win streaks, Jon Jones was only about 3 years into his mma career at the time too. He started training in 2008 and was champion by 2011 so he was a rookie dismantling veterans in their prime. Also many of the legends Jon Jones defeated fought 10 years after losing to Jon Jones.

I find it funny that your stats are so damn wrong. The one fight we have Jones fight night weight is Gustaffson, where Jon weighed in at 204.5, but his fight weight were 222.5 lbs., 3 lbs heavier then gustaffson. Using that as a metric, we can guesstimate that Jons general fight weight was 220+.

He has had one fight where his opponent MAYBE was heavier than him - that is DC. And that is only a maybe.


Most of his opponents were middleweights that fought at LHW. Jon is a natural HW fighting at LHW.

But who cares - as long as he could make weight, it is what it is, it is just silly to play this game that Jon weren't bigger than his opponents.

And in the end, all one has to do to see that Jon was bigger than his opponents, is watch the fights.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

Jon is a brilliant fighter, and he fought whoever they put in front of him. I don't think anyone can deny this.

However the evidence is there that the fighters that were close or matched him in size did really well or arguably beat him and that he came into that division at the right time.

having said that, I think he still would have done really well if he didn't have such size advantages over a lot of his opponents.

It wasn't until his last 2 fights at LHW that he started to look less dominant and beatable but I think it was more that Thiago and Reyes were having performance peaks while Jon was underperforming. Cause after Thiago and Reyes fought Jon they never performed at that level ever again mean while Jon was able to come back and dispose of Gane quickly without much effort.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

It wasn't until his last 2 fights at LHW that he started to look less dominant and beatable but I think it was more that Thiago and Reyes were having performance peaks while Jon was underperforming. Cause after Thiago and Reyes fought Jon they never performed at that level ever again mean while Jon was able to come back and dispose of Gane quickly without much effort.

To be fair, Thiago tore both ACLs in that fight, while Reyes plateu'd, refusing to evolve, taking more damage than he should have and ruining his chin in the process. Thiago could have gone further but his body gave out on him in his biggest moment and he missed it by a hair.
His difference in movement in his fights pre Jon and post are horrific.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Physically and stylistically he was a nightmare for a guy like Shogun.

Jones was lucky he fought Shogun when he was coming off a knee surgery. We all saw how that went against Forrest.

I'm not saying Jones can't beat a healthy Shogun but it's obvious that the healthy Shogun and post knee surgery Shogun are two completely different fighters.

I'll go as far as healthy Shogun is a much better fighters than Dominick Reyes who gave Jones a very hard fight.

It sucks we never got to see that Shogun fight Jones and saw the Shogun from the first Forrest and second Coleman fight instead.