The Irishman and Remembering Jimmy Hoffa

[tatanos]

The Life and Times of Jimmy Hoffa
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/11/29/the-life-and-times-of-jimmy-hoffa/

As described in Charles Brandt’s bestseller I Heard You Paint Houses, on which Scorsese’s movie is based, Hoffa’s subsequent campaign to regain the presidency of the Teamsters was sufficiently threatening to the Mafia that they had him killed.

The Irishman focuses on this seedier side of Hoffa’s life, thus perpetuating the image of a wholly amoral and self-serving criminal with which the McClellan hearings made Hoffa’s name synonymous. Most articles published in popular media, such as Steve Early’s recent piece “The Ghost of Jimmy Hoffa Won’t Go Away,” express a similarly one-sided view. The truth is that Hoffa’s Mob connections were hardly the defining feature of his life. Rather, he deserves to be known, in large part, as the preternaturally effective and hard-working—20-hour days six days a week—leader of what was then the largest union in American history, responsible for raising millions of truck drivers, warehousemen, laundry workers, retail clerks, and others into the middle class.

With the possible exception of John L. Lewis, no twentieth-century union leader was as beloved by the members as Hoffa. He made it a point to be approachable and endlessly responsive: in speeches, for example, he regularly gave out his office phone number and insisted that members call him at any hour of the day or night if they had problems. The contracts he secured were remarkably generous—and yet, ironically, even employers profoundly admired him, considering him a master negotiator, a “genius,” more knowledgeable about the trucking industry than anyone, all in all “a great statesman” who was scrupulously honest and realistic in bargaining.

Indeed, the fundamental reason for the perennial fascination with Jimmy Hoffa may be not so much his ties to the Mafia as his sheer power and success. No other industry was more critical to the nation’s economy than trucking, and Hoffa did more than anyone to rationalize and stabilize conditions in this chaotic, competitive industry (a service for which employers were grateful). Bobby Kennedy may have exaggerated when he said Hoffa was the second most powerful man in the country, but he certainly did have a degree of power unimaginable for a union official in the twenty-first century. And that’s what’s so interesting about him: Hoffa symbolizes a political economy long gone, an era when a union leader could strike fear and loathing in the hearts of senators and presidents, when the old industrial working class, millions strong and capable of bringing the economy to its knees if it so desired, was still the foundation of the social order.

I thought I’d start a thread to discuss the Irishman movie and the legacy of the Teamsters in the United States, as well as the history of the union movement, which was the backbone of getting impoverished workers and Irish, Italian, etc. immigrants into the American middle class. The movie also examines the Bay of Pigs scandal and the seedier sides of Kennedy’s presidency, with how embroiled the mafia was with the American government. A great film and possibly a final hurrah to crime films by Scorsese, it’s available on Netflix for easy viewing.

 

[Sketch]

The anti aging effects on Deniro were terrible and distracting and he still moved like a 70 year old man during the flashback scenes. Pesci was cool though.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Joe Kennedy: "Bobby, why are you going after the mafia? They are who put you and your brother inn the White House."

 

[VivaRevolution]

I feel like their is a untold game of thrones type story in the US, and that the mafia was a house that is no more.

 

[tatanos]

I feel like their is a untold game of thrones type story in the US, and that the mafia was a house that is no more.

That’s exactly right, the article shines such a fascinating light on the shadowy, “opaque” organizations existing parallel to the liberal corporatist state embodied by Kennedy, organizations which filled in the gaps which weren’t covered by the existing order. What we consider the industrial working class at that time were largely left behind and expected to fend for themselves; and they did through mass organizations like unions and the mafia.

"The Teamsters epitomized this independent working class, and Hoffa epitomized the Teamsters."

"Certain sectors of the working class were even defiantly independent of the corporate-liberal “consensus” of the Cold War establishment, having carved out their own self-policed political economy with the help of organized crime, informal deals, and a willingness to meet violence with violence.”

“It was the aesthetic, so to speak, of the Teamsters and their form of unionism to which Bobby Kennedy and other “corporate liberals” objected (together with “socially responsible” unionists like Walter Reuther of the United Autoworkers). As historian Thaddeus Russell argues, “the confrontation [between Kennedy and Hoffa] represented a cultural conflict between the rising, respectable professional class of the prosperous postwar years and the uncultured, unassimilated, and unruly industrial working class of the Depression.” To have such an untamed and independent social force right at the heart of society—in the age of triumphant liberalism—was an embarrassment."

"Years later, Hoffa formulated the moral philosophy he had imbibed from his early days in Indiana and Detroit:

“Every day of the average individual is a matter of survival. If by chance he should go from home to work and have an accident, lose an arm or an eye, he’s just like an animal wounded in the jungle. He’s out. Life isn’t easy. Life is a jungle… Ethics is a matter of individualism. What may be ethical to you may be unethical to someone else… But my ethics are very simple. Live and let live, and those who try to destroy you, make it your business to see that they don’t and that they have problems.”

 

[brody_in_ga]

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

 

[MilesAbove]

Quality movie. Great acting and script. The age thing was..... weird, but I get why they did it. Really was throwing me off when Pesci was calling BobbyD "Kid".... when even with the CGI looked 55ish. Still, I hardly cared with how well put together the movie was.

 

[Confucamus]

Quality movie. Great acting and script. The age thing was..... weird, but I get why they did it. Really was throwing me off when Pesci was calling BobbyD "Kid".... when even with the CGI looked 55ish. Still, I hardly cared with how well put together the movie was.

DeNiro was supposed to be in his 30's in that scene. It was weird. He still moved like a 70 year old man, stiff neck and all. It was especially obvious in that scene where he fucks up the shopkeeper. I was able to still enjoy the movie despite the distracting de-aging.

Very good movie, solid script, great acting. I had such a smile on my face watching Pesci and De Niro act together again. That small scene in the bowling alley is a good example. Their chemistry is perfect. I felt Pacino was good, but felt a bit out of place for a Scorcese movie. I'm hearing it gets better with every view, which tends to be the case with Scorcese movies. I'll throw it on again some time soon and take another look at it.

 

[Gregolian]

I was a Teamster member at my old job.

Maybe it was just the chapter I was a part of but I hated them.

 

[Trotsky]

DeNiro was supposed to be in his 30's in that scene. It was weird. He still moved like a 70 year old man, stiff neck and all. It was especially obvious in that scene where he fucks up the shopkeeper. I was able to still enjoy the movie despite the distracting de-aging.

Very good movie, solid script, great acting. I had such a smile on my face watching Pesci and De Niro act together again. That small scene in the bowling alley is a good example. Their chemistry is perfect. I felt Pacino was good, but felt a bit out of place for a Scorcese movie. I'm hearing it gets better with every view, which tends to be the case with Scorcese movies. I'll throw it on again some time soon and take another look at it.

I think it's weird that people are making that issue with the de-aging - that De Niro didn't move about like a young man. I didn't notice it, but I was focused on and impressed by the de-aging effects on his face. And that's obviously a trade off for getting to retain De Niro's acting and not have to switch out for a younger actor that doesn't resemble him, which I find far more disruptive.

 

[kahiljabroni]

My father was a teamster and when he got sick he had a great pension that my mom still gets to this day.

 

[Confucamus]

I think it's weird that people are making that issue with the de-aging - that De Niro didn't move about like a young man. I didn't notice it, but I was focused on and impressed by the de-aging effects on his face. And that's obviously a trade off for getting to retain De Niro's acting and not have to switch out for a younger actor that doesn't resemble him, which I find far more disruptive.

Ironically, De Niro shot to stardom with the Godfather Part II playing a younger version of a role previously played by Marlon Brando, who won an Oscar for the first movie. It's only disruptive if the younger version does not meet the standard of their older version of their character.

Again, I noticed the de-aging, but I was still able to enjoy the movie despite of it.

 

[TheBlondBomber]

Jimmy Hoffa is doing a Nazi salute in the first photo.

 

[King Joffery]

Pesci bossed it again like he has in every Scorsese movie. Shame he didn't do more roles over his career.

 

[tatanos]

 

[computer fogie]

I liked the movie overall, but I didn't like Pacino as Hoffa.

 

[Damien Karras]

DeNiro was supposed to be in his 30's in that scene. It was weird. He still moved like a 70 year old man, stiff neck and all. It was especially obvious in that scene where he fucks up the shopkeeper. I was able to still enjoy the movie despite the distracting de-aging.

Very good movie, solid script, great acting. I had such a smile on my face watching Pesci and De Niro act together again. That small scene in the bowling alley is a good example. Their chemistry is perfect. I felt Pacino was good, but felt a bit out of place for a Scorcese movie. I'm hearing it gets better with every view, which tends to be the case with Scorcese movies. I'll throw it on again some time soon and take another look at it.

Oh god I know!

The first thought I had in mind was "how many takes did they have to do for it to be that one to run with?"

 

[Confucamus]

Oh god I know!

The first thought I had in mind was "how many takes did they have to do for it to be that one to run with?"

They could've done better. If it's not an extreme closeup, or a scene where the actor's performance isn't crucial (like kicking the shopkeepr around) they can do some pretty impressive shit that would go unnoticed now a days.

Example:

 

[hillelslovak87]

The anti aging effects on Deniro were terrible and distracting and he still moved like a 70 year old man during the flashback scenes. Pesci was cool though.

Just saw the trailer, and damn!! You know what it is? It's the lips. When you age your cell linings start becoming thinner, so something like the human lips lose their elasticity. He's got old man lips, on top of the wrinkles and shit. What age is he supposed to be in the movie, because I'm guessing he'd need to be pretty young to be starting doing small things, as the youngsters in mafia movies always do.

The de-aging is about as convincing as Lou Dobbs trying to convince everyone he's a day younger than 56.