The inherent uselessness of 10-8 rounds.

[Magjee]

10-8 rounds happen all the time, they are just scored 10-9

 

[MMun]

Judges should use a larger range of scores. 10-10's, 10-8's, 10-7's.

 

[HIMBOB]

If 10-8s were the norm it works.

 

[Degen Gambler]

More draws are needed. There are a ton of fights where no clear winner has emerged. Why shouldn't it be a draw? I say more 10-8 and more 10-10 rounds are needed.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

I'd rather see a well deserved draw, than see the wrong guy get the win. Which often happens. One need only go back as far as the last Fedor fight to see a good example.

This makes you crazy.

On no planet, anywhere did Fedor lose that fight.

Not only did he win the majority of round 1, until he got hit, but he came back at the end of round 1 to make Maldonado retreat. Fedor lost that round, but by a standard 10-9 score. Had he fought any less than he did, it would have been a legit 10-8.

The next 2 rounds he won.

He won the fight and at worst it would have been a draw. No where would he have ever lost that fight on the score cards.

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

This makes you crazy.

On no planet, anywhere did Fedor lose that fight.

Not only did he win the majority of round 1, until he got hit, but he came back at the end of round 1 to make Maldonado retreat. Fedor lost that round, but by a standard 10-9 score. Had he fought any less than he did, it would have been a legit 10-8.

The next 2 rounds he won.

He won the fight and at worst it would have been a draw. No where would he have ever lost that fight on the score cards.

Nobody said he lost, we said it should have been a 10-8, Turns out the Athletic commission thought so too. The win was overturned and ruled a draw. So I guess that makes you crazy.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

Nobody said he lost, we said it should have been a 10-8, Turns out the Athletic commission thought so too. The win was overturned and ruled a draw. So I guess that makes you crazy.

What athletic commission?
The one here in Vegas would have never done such a thing.

Unprofessional, newly setup commissions are prone to public outcry so they don't lose funding or their positions.

In no real commission would that have ever been overturned.

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

 

[Lamfadha]

Nobody said he lost, we said it should have been a 10-8, Turns out the Athletic commission thought so too. The win was overturned and ruled a draw. So I guess that makes you crazy.

Ton of bullshit decisions that should be overturned in America but haven't so this is more politics than a real overturning. Also Russian's said it was bullshit to try and overturn it so officially a win.

 

[Lamfadha]

Matt Hume on his scoring system.

Matt on inside MMA further trashing scoring other than his.

And on topic draws are better than bullshit scores/why do Americans hate draws?

 

[NicholasJBasile]

This may be a very unpopular opinion, but I like the idea of a half point system. Additionally, I'd like it if there were 5 judges instead of 3 (or even 7 judges instead of 3).

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

This may be a very unpopular opinion, but I like the idea of a half point system. Additionally, I'd like it if there were 5 judges instead of 3 (or even 7 judges instead of 3).

I don't mind it. I think fighters should be rewarded for clearly winning a round as opposed to one that's very even and one takes the round with a quick flurry or TD at the end. Not all 10-9 rounds were created equal.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

I don't mind it. I think fighters should be rewarded for clearly winning a round as opposed to one that's very even and one takes the round with a quick flurry or TD at the end. Not all 10-9 rounds were created equal.

Agreed -- I'm sure there's better ideas out than my own, but I feel as though there needs to be a better distribution to give fighters credence for winning rounds in varying degrees.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

What I was trying to tell you before, is that they would laugh me out of the room if I requested them to skip 10-8 scores. The climate here is brutal.

This is disappointing to hear, as 10-8 isn't actually being skipped...it's just getting reassigned a greater (or lesser) value than two 10-9 rounds.

Evading the problem of "skipping 10-8" - if they are in fact that married to it - is as easy as using different terms. "Big round/small round", "competitive round/non-competitive round"...anything.

It's kind like saying that, in football, because field goals are worth 3 points and touchdowns are worth 6...there HAS to be some single-play worth 4 and 5 points respectively. There simply does not. I don't think it's any more/less arbitrary...it's just designed to minimize draws.

You're just the messenger, i know...but it's a bummer that they think like that.

The solution I posted was to add another 10 point must score, at the end of the fight, that represents the entire fight. It would be just like another round had been fought, but represents the whole fight.

This way, real draws would be draws and close fights would be based on the entire fights, not just weird criteria in each round.

I think this would end up creating even more draws, unless I'm misunderstanding.

It would eliminate draws in fights where one opponent manages a 10-8 round and deserves to win...but it will create them in most other cases, some I'd argue as more common.

Two razor thin 10-9s vs a strong 9-10 comes out a draw with that extra "total fight" score.

A less common example is a close 10-9 + 10-8 vs. an even bigger 8-10 + the 4th score ends up in a draw.

In both cases, the score that is meant to say "this is who won the fight" is not being reflected, plus we get the undesirable draw. Further, if they're going to have such a score...the previous 3 are, by nature, superfluous.


The one snag in my 10-7 idea that was brought up was that there could be a fight where a guy gets 2 "almost 10-7s" and loses to a "barely 10-7". I'm ok with it because, first of all, there's never a draw, but also, it's understood going in, especially if the 10-7 is being clearly defined.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

And on topic draws are better than bullshit scores/why do Americans hate draws?

I can give you my reason, specific to MMA.

First of all, there are no playoffs. Records ultimately do not matter.

I have mentioned the worst case scenario earlier in the thread, which i do believe is bad enough to discourage draws. A draw in a title eliminator holds up the entire division. It would be a terrible thing to have the champ sit out and wait for a rematch, for starters. The draw would actually become a punishment to both fighters if a separate fighter was given the title shot. If they give the title shot to one fighter over the other from the draw...that's just as arbitrary as declaring a winner in the first place. So what is the truth benefiting, beyond tallies in W-L-D columns that do not actually matter in this sport?

The truth still exists in the most meaningful sense through the narrative of fights/fans. Controversy and "it should have been a draw" threads/discussion that would arise would not be a bad thing. They keep the loser of such close fights from falling down rankings. They benefit promotion of that fighter...increase sympathy and interest in his/her next fight. Draws kind of only do that if there's a rematch. In virtually all other cases they are a lateral move. And it's not like a rematch is only an option when there's a draw, anyway.

I really only see draws being fair to records, which i don't believe is important enough in this world of MMA.

 

[Fraz]

They should start doing 3 count pins

 

[Lamfadha]

I can give you my reason, specific to MMA.

First of all, there are no playoffs. Records ultimately do not matter.

I have mentioned the worst case scenario earlier in the thread, which i do believe is bad enough to discourage draws. A draw in a title eliminator holds up the entire division. It would be a terrible thing to have the champ sit out and wait for a rematch, for starters. The draw would actually become a punishment to both fighters if a separate fighter was given the title shot. If they give the title shot to one fighter over the other from the draw...that's just as arbitrary as declaring a winner in the first place. So what is the truth benefiting, beyond tallies in W-L-D columns that do not actually matter in this sport?

The truth still exists in the most meaningful sense through the narrative of fights/fans. Controversy and "it should have been a draw" threads/discussion that would arise would not be a bad thing. They keep the loser of such close fights from falling down rankings. They benefit promotion of that fighter...increase sympathy and interest in his/her next fight. Draws kind of only do that if there's a rematch. In virtually all other cases they are a lateral move. And it's not like a rematch is only an option when there's a draw, anyway.

I really only see draws being fair to records, which i don't believe is important enough in this world of MMA.

True in MMA losses are not as bad as in boxing therefore not as harmful to the title picture as to need draws.
Most people already go back and re score fights and there is a consensus of which fights they actually lost and won.
Frankie Edgar in most fans opinion losing first BJ fight and winning second Benson fight for example.

I would counter with if a title eliminator fight ended in a draw they both get a shot at the current champ/rematch if the first one up wins and becomes champion.
It will slightly hold up the division but it is either that or after draws they fight different people and W/L or strength of competition decides who gets the title shot out of them, which would really hold up the division.
Or you know you could just leapfrog people to keep the champion busy while they sort out the meritocracy like they already do or something just to keep the division moving ALA MM/Flyweight.

It just points out the scoring system / title shot decision making will never be 100% perfect and a lot of it is limiting bullshit calls as much as you can I guess.

 

[filthynumber1]

Having competent judges would be a good start

















Still waiting........
Insert cecil people's fight starting gif*

 

[Rum]

Who gives a fuck if there're more draws?

You don't do enough to CLEARLY win the fight, you don't deserve a W over the other guy.

Also, on average, judging has been getting a lot better in recent months. The percentage of dodgy decisions is down a bunch.