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The Hook Debate: Palm in or Palm down? (17 threads mashed together, have fun)

  • Thread starter Thread starter PhilCollins
  • Start date Start date
Re: how to make your fist for a hook = use the natural positioning of your fist.

By that I mean:

With your arm at your side, extend your forearm out so its parallel with the floor. Make a fist, look at how it is positiioned (thumb is up).

Now, slowly raise your elbow up until your upper arm is now parallel with the floor. See how your wrist slowly turns over (palm/thumb is now down)?

Basically that is a quick demo on how your body naturally moves, so you simply alter your fist accordingly when throwing your hooks - to the body, thumb up, to the head, turned over and in between angles, the fist is also in between those two positions.

Hope that helps.
 
I use a horizontal fist for tight hooks to the head. I use a vertical fist for hooks to the body and long hooks to the head.
 
I had to read that a couple times to make sure. If I'm wrong forgive my reading comprehension but did you just say that you hold your thumb under your knuckles when you punch? Like your fingers are wrapped around it? If so that's a great way to hurt yourself for no good reason. Keep your thumb on the outside of your fist.

If you're asking if you should hold your fist horizontal or vertical, my first training partner told me to hold it vertical, a fighter from a different gym told me to hold it horizontal, and my instructor told me to hold it whichever way feels comfortable to me.

I hold it vertical on every hook regardless of where I am placing it. For me I feel I can channel more of my body's momentum just by how I hold it. When I keep my fist horizontal the hook just feels slow and weak.
 
I think your all getting this wrong. Im just wondering where to position my thumb b/c i keep jamming it and this time i hurt it so bad i cant even hold a glass of milk. Usually i wrap my thumb under the lower part of my fingers like i do in most punches, straight, jab and hooks where the fist is sideways. but on the hooks where the fist is striaght up and down the hand turns so hte thumb is going to be taking some force.... so where do i move my thumb? thats really what im asking.
 
Hexcsx said:
You don't move the thumb, it stays in the position it should always be in so that your fist is the most stable for impact absorbtion that it can be. You have to rotate the fist so that you don't hit the fingers and thumb depending on the hook thrown. Re-read my posts and simulate where you would hit with strikes to understand it.
Click to expand...

so when your hooks extended using the vertical grip your thumb stays the same as always in the same place? i dont understand how you would turn your fist so that the thumb doesnt take as much impact...
 
Hexcsx said:
The bicep is a primary muscle involved in a hook and when your knuckles are vertical the bicep is shorter and tighter. If you're close enough you should be able to throw with knuckles in a vertical line. Put your arm out and turn your fist to see what i mean.

Although if you're throwing a hook from further out with the lower arm more extended you would want to turn the fist with knuckles running horizontal so as to connect with the knuckles and not the fingers.

Try it and it'll make sense. Work out the best position for each type of hook you throw and store it to your muscle memory.
Click to expand...

incorrect... exact opposite. Also, you don't use your bicep at all when throwing a hook, you use the twisting motion of your torso to gain power and speed the hand just goes for a ride. Which is also why you pivot your feet.:D
 
The bicep is tensed in a tight hook to keep the fist stable. But all of the power is generated from the hip twist. As far as keeping the fist vertical or horizontal, either style is fine. It all depends on the trainer's style. I believe in the Jack Dempsey method so that's why my fist is horizontal for tight hooks so I can get a three knuckle landing.
 
i don't know if the way i do it is rignt or wrong, but when i throw a short hook, i hold my hand like i would a beer mug, but when i need a little more distance, i hold my hand like i would riding a bike.
 
I train in muay thai/jeet kune do, and we throw are hooks with the palm facing down, and make contact with the first two knuckles. The only time we throw hooks with the fist up and down is a shovel hook to the body.

When I hit the heavy bag it feels much better when I throw the hook like that. The wrist is more solid and doesn't move at all. I can throw full power and not worry about my wrist twisting. If you hold your fist up and down it is, in my opinion and experience, much easier to twist your wrist and not hit properly. The shovel hook is different, it makes a real good connection just because the angle it comes up at.

I would recommend throwing hooks with the fist flat, palm down and striking with the front two knuckles. There is no way you should hit your thumb, unless your elbow is not high enough.

If you are hitting your thumb in the fist up and down position, then you are probly looping the hook and simply not throwing it properly. If this is the case then you should try throwing more with the hip and don't "muscle" your hook to the target. The range of motion on the arm should not be very much. Keep it tight, and keep your elbow bent at the 90* angle so that your hook isn't looping when it makes contact.
 
Hexcsx said:
What's the opposite? Bicep longer = tighter?


Saying you don't use your bicep at all is just absurb. I would love to see one of your hooks after the removal of your biceps. Many many muscles are involved all throughout the body in generating the speed, strength and technique that come together to form the power of strikes.
Click to expand...


Yeah, find it kinda silly that someone would throw a hook without the biceps being involved. In fact when I am sparring or hitting the pads sometimes I actually pull my hook through the last couple inches right before impact to give it an extra pop. Without using the biceps that is impossible.
 
Of course you can bend a little at the wrist with a long hook. When you throw a long hook, the fist describes a circular motion like when a cat swats at a ball of string or when you slap someone in the face. If there is no bend at the wrist, you won't land the knuckles on the target. Just watch how classic outboxers like Muhammad Ali and Evander Holyfield throw them. Even if you kept your fist horizontal in a long hook, you'd still have to cock your wrist inwards to land it properly.
 
If you throw with your fist horizontally you have to make sure you are not flaring your elbows up as this is likely.

Ideally you should be on about a 45 degree angle so that you can barely see your pinky finger. This position keeps the elbow tight and allows you freedom to whip the punch while driving the body behind it.

Since the likely counter to the hook the body is catching an elbow, I would say there should be NO bend in the wrist (the wirst should always be aligned).
 
keredog said:
I also have the same problem. I read the posts related to this topic but I'm a very visual learner so I'll just ask like this. When are you supposed to throw a hook like this:
http://z.about.com/d/martialarts/1/0/J/fist4.jpg

And when are you supposed to throw a hook with the palm down?
Click to expand...

The only time I throw that particular punch is when I am coming down and in on a liver shot. and its really more of corkscrew to finish in that position.
 
Alright thanks Smashing, It's just that every time I hit a punching bag w/o gloves, and I punch with my palm down, My thumb gets jammed.

So basically thumbs up for body shots and thumb to the side for face?
 
keredog said:
Alright thanks Smashing, It's just that every time I hit a punching bag w/o gloves, and I punch with my palm down, My thumb gets jammed.

So basically thumbs up for body shots and thumb to the side for face?
Click to expand...

If your thumb is getting jammed when you throw a head level punch on the heavy bag with your palm down, try raising your elbow higher and it will automatically rotate your fist inward and your top knuckles will come down a little. That way when you make impact it is with the first two knuckles.

I usually never throw a head level punch with an up and down fist like you showed in that picture. If I do it isn't a true hook, but more of an uppercut/hook. And I don't do it on the heavy bag.

On the heavy bag really the only time I strike with that up and down fist is a shovel hook to the body. But I shoot it in at an upward angle.

Good luck, keep blasting away at that bag!!
 
I asked my boxing trainer this earlier in the week.

He said for both hooks to the head and to the body, the hook should be thrown palm down. The difference is for hooks to the body, there is more bending at the knee to get to the proper height. Still the arm movement, body torque, foot pivotting and hip rotation are the same.

After trying both methods, I felt much more power and this way and it did seem more natural in the end.
 
there are 3 variations of how to throw a hook. any good BOXING instructor can show you
 
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