The Hook Debate: Palm in or Palm down? (17 threads mashed together, have fun)

[Wolfin44]

See now my coach (MT) always says it depends on range
For close distance palms toward you
standard (majority) palm down
long range palm away from you slightly
he says as long as you are primarily hitting them with the front two knuckles (fore and middle fingers)

 

[KampfHund]

It depends how you throw them. Most people (myself included) tend to throw the thumbs up hook with a little more of a 'loop' to it, which makes it slower than the palms down hook but generally more destructive on contact. At longer distances you're less likely to hit with your knuckles punching this way, but long range hooks are often a good way to be countered by a straight shot anyway.

In my experience, throwing palms down is particularly popular with taller fighters, whereas shorter guys often like the thumbs up method once they're inside.

 

[weich]

This. Hook to the body, palm is facing you. Hook to the jaw, palm facing down so your knuckles can line up with his chin.

This is what my bosing coach teaches as well, but the reasoning is slightly different. When you are throwing a hook to the head you will ideally hit a hard surface, either jaw bone or skull. When your palm is facing down you are less likely to injur your wrist when you make contact.

When you are throwing a hook to the body you are likely to hit a soft surface, or the ribs which do compress, so you have your palm facing you. I think the vertical alignment with hooks to the body is especially valuable for liver shots.

 

[nomilkforsanta]

Freddie Roach on Left Hook - YouTube
Freddie Roach Teaches how to throw the "MANILLA ICE" and work the speed bag - YouTube

Roach says palm down.


On a side note, Russ Anber from rival is ok with a low eblow hook... 5 The Left hook - YouTube

 

[KampfHund]

Freddie Roach on Left Hook - YouTube
Freddie Roach Teaches how to throw the "MANILLA ICE" and work the speed bag - YouTube

Roach says palm down.


On a side note, Russ Anber from rival is ok with a low eblow hook... 5 The Left hook - YouTube

5 Best Left Hooks of all time

They all hit thumbs up. Just sayin'.

 

[xjeffx]

Go shadow box and watch your shoulder when you're throwing hooks each way. With your palm down your shoulder will be elevated to your chin or higher, protecting your mug.

 

[KyleInAction]

5 Best Left Hooks of all time

They all hit thumbs up. Just sayin'.

Not true. Even in that video, you can see Tyson and Frazier hit with their palm down depending on their position and how the punch itself would land. Morrison did that as well, though it wasn't highlighted in that particular video (his thumb stays up until the last possible moment, and then he turns his hand over as the hook follows through the opponent - it might look like a thumb-up hook but it's not).

 

[KampfHund]

Not true. Even in that video, you can see Tyson and Frazier hit with their palm down depending on their position and how the punch itself would land. Morrison did that as well, though it wasn't highlighted in that particular video (his thumb stays up until the last possible moment, and then he turns his hand over as the hook follows through the opponent - it might look like a thumb-up hook but it's not).

At best Tyson's fist was around 45 degrees from vertical. He has always been taught to throw thumbs up hooks, any variation of angle is largely due to him punching people taller than him. If you throw a thumbs up hook above head height it looks like a palm down hook, but it's not. The same thing affects Joe Frazier. Reaching above his head visually alters the angle of the fist, but the technique is still a thumbs up hook.

 

[KyleInAction]

At best Tyson's fist was around 45 degrees from vertical. He has always been taught to throw thumbs up hooks, any variation of angle is largely due to him punching people taller than him. If you throw a thumbs up hook above head height it looks like a palm down hook, but it's not. The same thing affects Joe Frazier. Reaching above his head visually alters the angle of the fist, but the technique is still a thumbs up hook.

You pretty much agreed with me: the position of their hand is dependent on their position, and the position of their target. It doesn't matter what you wish your hand was doing, or what you intend it to do; the only thing that matters is what it's actually doing. And their fists actually connect palm down, depending on the circumstance.

Should also be noted that a taller opponent wasn't the only time Frazier threw it like that. He'd also throw thumb down if he was at range and trying to hit closer to the front of the chin rather than the jaw. Like Tito here:

 

[KampfHund]

You pretty much agreed with me: the position of their hand is dependent on their position, and the position of their target. It doesn't matter what you wish your hand was doing, or what you intend it to do; the only thing that matters is what it's actually doing. And their fists actually connect palm down, depending on the circumstance.

I'm not agreeing with you, the technique is still a thumbs-up hook. The techniques of the two punches are distinct, and a fist landing at a less than vertical position doesn't change that.

If anything you should be considering the palm placement relative to the arm of the boxer, rather than the floor.

 

[KyleInAction]

edit

 

[ssullivan80]

This intrigues me, then. Besides the actual rotation of the fist, how do you see a palm-down hook differing technically from thumb-up hook?

IMO it doesn't, the variable is at what height/distance the hook is thrown and at which point during the overall motion the hook lands. I.E: a lead hook the hand is rolling over through contact, hit a guy at shoulder level and your probably (should be IMO) landing with a vertical fist at impact and turning the fist over through impact to follow up. Throw the hook at a higher elevation or a longer distance the thumb is going to more likely be horizontal or pointed downward because the hook is landing in the later part of the overall movement. Imagine swinging a beer mug at someone, if he is close or at shoulder level your going to be hitting him with the thumb up, if he's farther away (taller=farther away) your thumb is more likely to be pointed horizontally or downward.

 

[KyleInAction]

Relative to his arm, not just the floor, Tyson throwing a palm-down left hook.

But I'm really not interested in arguing semantics. Just pointing out that these guys did throw a palm-down hook, depending on the circumstance.

 

[KyleInAction]

IMO it doesn't, the variable is at what height/distance the hook is thrown and at which point during the overall motion the hook lands. I.E: a lead hook the hand is rolling over through contact, hit a guy at shoulder level and your probably (should be IMO) landing with a vertical fist at impact and turning the fist over through impact to follow up. Throw the hook at a higher elevation or a longer distance the thumb is going to more likely be horizontal or pointed downward because the hook is landing in the later part of the overall movement. Imagine swinging a beer mug at someone, if he is close or at shoulder level your going to be hitting him with the thumb up, if he's farther away (taller=farther away) your thumb is more likely to be pointed horizontally or downward.

This is how I see it, as well. It's about when and where the hook is landing. I was more or less trying to determine whether or not our disagreement was semantic, which it was.

 

[ssullivan80]

Relative to his arm, not just the floor, Tyson throwing a palm-down left hook.

But I'm really not interested in arguing semantics. Just pointing out that these guys did throw a palm-down hook, depending on the circumstance.

notice how the palm is down on the follow through, not at impact. The hand rolls over when your throwing that lead hook. Tyson would of landed that first hook thumb up, your seeing it thumb down because it is post impact during the follow through. Rolling the hand over through the hook is how you keep from overextending, how the fist hits is contingent on what portion of the movement the fist makes contact. Earlier in the movement the thumb will (should be) be up, later in the rotation as the fist turns over the thumb may be horizontal or down when it makes contact.

 

[Steakeater**]

Eric Prindle KO'd with a left hook palm facing down. He was an all army boxing champ.
\

lol Sparks got KOd by a boxer? Wasnt he supposed to fight Ray Mercer?

 

[ssullivan80]

This is how I see it, as well. It's about when and where the hook is landing. I was more or less trying to determine whether or not our disagreement was semantic, which it was.

agreed! cheers! I am ashamed at myself for commenting on another "palm up/down, how to, proper technique...... Hook thread"
:icon_lol:

 

[KyleInAction]

notice how the palm is down on the follow through, not at impact. The hand rolls over when your throwing that lead hook. Tyson would of landed that first hook thumb up, your seeing it thumb down because it is post impact during the follow through. Rolling the hand over through the hook is how you keep from overextending, how the fist hits is contingent on what portion of the movement the fist makes contact. Earlier in the movement the thumb will (should be) be up, later in the rotation as the fist turns over the thumb may be horizontal or down when it makes contact.

Interesting, though, that Tyson didn't always follow through that way. There are just as many occurrences of him following through the entire punch with his thumb up, even when he had it extended. Curious if he had a reason for following through differently, or if it was just a lapse in the moment.

 

[KyleInAction]

That'd make a pretty good "Come At Me, Bro"

 

[ssullivan80]

Interesting, though, that Tyson didn't always follow through that way. There are just as many occurrences of him following through the entire punch with his thumb up, even when he had it extended. Curious if he had a reason for following through differently, or if it was just a lapse in the moment.

I think a lot of that was Tyson's style, as much as he had parts of his game that were very technical, once he got to his opponents he just wanted fight! He was so explosive that he would just start swinging.......... His offense was far more aggressive than it was technical much of the time, he threw every single shot like he wanted to kill you with it and would sacrifice pure technique in the name of "im gonna fuck you up" kind of fighting.