Opinion The Great WR Debate: are you far-right or far-left?

[ferrisjso]

Anarchy is the complete absence of government. Libertarians believe in government, just limited government. While Fuck the Feds is a slogan you hear a lot amongst Libertarians, and does summarize things nicely, most want government, they just want to restrict it.

Have a military, just restrict spending, like Clinton did.
Don't do what Trump and Biden just did with spending.
Do something about the environment, just don't restrict freedoms, excessively tax, and strangle businesses to do it.
Have some government social programs, but just don't have so many it restricts people from wanting to work.
People should be going into office to help others, not to make a career out of it.
As Elon cut 75% of the Twitter staff and it still runs good, we could cut 75% of the government and America will still run good, if not better.

So you want a state built around forced labor? People should work because they believe in what they're doing or for more comftorable conditions, luxury. If people do not want to serve a function under a system with a UBI that function should not exist or said org should be paying through the nose to get people to fill it. The idea adults should be forced to labor is disturbing and is why we have so many homeless people because more and more people just are not willling to put up with daily humilation and structure that capitalist work so often brings.

Govt social programs are known as human rights. Things people(or the society) need to live. Free healthcare, free education, a UBI so people can consent to labor etc. We don't have serious govt programs the idea people could be upset about their being too many of them is comical. Did you know welfare doesn't actually exist because of Clinton? People are angry at a ghost of a human right the govt doesn't actually provide. Human rights are universial(even for the rich) means tested garbage is not a substitute for said programs and those stipulations exist precisley so people associate said programs with bloated administration. If a program is universial very little if any administration is neccessary as most administration is searching for a reason to deny benefits.

Businesses are the enemy the profit motive is killing not just the world.They destroy everything including everything positive capitalism has ever produced in the past. Its like an economic cancer cell that needs to grow forever and eventually kills it's host. For profit businesses should be strangled and if humanity wants to survive to the 23rd century they will be strangled it's only a matter of time.

Spending is a govt doing it's job. Lack of spending is the govt failing it's people under the lie of financial prudence no currency weilding nation needs to have.

 

[SakurabasEar]

To describe my political leanings accurately, I'd have to preface it with my own personal history. I'm not even that fiscally conservative, I actually am left on healthcare and understand some of the problems that modern capitalism is causing now, though I do attribute the massive progress of technology to private industry, and how could you not.

For the rest of things, im staunchly conservative. And I try to value culture, morals, and tradition over material wealth and individuality. If we value "progress", we must not forget about the human spirit and meaning. I fear its nearly unavoidable that we will progress our way to a point where both concepts are compromised for people, leading to emptiness

Anyways, I don't consider leftists to be my enemy. I actually like mostly all of you. I just think you must be aware of hubris. If the last seven years haven't lead you to question your presumptions, I think the next few years probably will. I've had to ditch views too, trust me.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

"State's rights" has only ever been used to defend removing federal protections, which allows for those with economic power and influence to treat those without it like commodities, to roll back rights of specific groups. And the recent election in Ohio kinda blows that theory out of the water. Abortion is now a State issue yes? Well the GOP literally tried to change the rules to reduce the voting power of the citizenry. Thankfully it didn't work despite their best efforts to first...announce a ban on August election because of low voter participation. Then, to call a last-minute August special election hoping for even more low voter turnout, say only those who hate abortion. Third, to mention sh*t that had nothing to do with the rule change they were voting on, like trans issues, parents' rights issues, and 2nd Amendment issues...NONE of which were in contention.

They tried to cheat to exert power. And without a Federal protection that's legally fine. Now you can say well they could just be voted out of office. To that I'd say lool at how gerrymandered Ohio is. Sh*t like this is oppression of a ruling class, and oppression breeds rebellion. I prefer reform, but depowering the Fed isnt the answer.

I usually enjoy keeping up on current events, but I am not up to date with what is going on in Ohio, been traveling a bit lately and out of touch. I did notice Ohio was in the headlines, you mentioned it, so I will research it.

But to get back to your point, if state rights have been just used to abuse the system, that is because we have a strong federal stronghold. So we do not truly have a states rights system, it is only used to get around the feds, like you said.
But if the federal government quit overreaching, like they are now, this wouldn't be an issue.

If the federal government was depowered you could pick the state you wanted to live in due to economic opportunity, weather, adventure, and how the government ran, or in my mind, how small it was and how less restrictive it was, giving you more freedom.

I think depowering the feds is the answer

We went to war over a tea tax. War over paying pennies to England. Now many Americans pay 50% in total taxes. Counting when you buy a plane ticket you pay taxes, gas, beer, etc. Many Americans will pay over a million dollars if taxes in a lifetime. For what? For the government to restrict the efficiency of small business? For low quality roads? For failing schools or lead based water supplies? Or so waves of Democratic and Republican politicians can make careers out of it?

The government has taught us to hate the left or hate the right. But maybe the government itself is really the enemy.

 

[AZ103]

I've read plenty of books so I guess I resent the "right winger" label. I don't much care for the labels anyways.

I'm anti war, Anti big business, anti trans, anti abortion And a pro state rights constitutionalist. At one point I voted for Obama because I thought he represented those things. In real life my friends call me a centrist though I'd imagine that's spit your drink out funny to some of the libs here.

 

[Jack V Savage]

To describe my political leanings accurately, I'd have to preface it with my own personal history. I'm not even that fiscally conservative, I actually am left on healthcare and understand some if the problems that modern capitalism is causing now, though I do attribute the massive progress of technology to private industry, and how could you not.

For the rest of things, im staunchly conservative. And I try to value culture, morals, and tradition over material wealth and individuality. If we value "progress", we must not forget about the human spirit and meaning. I fear its nearly unavoidable that we will progress our way to a point where both concepts are compromised for people, leading to emptiness

Anyways, I don't consider leftists to be my enemy. I actually like mostly all of you. I just think you must be aware of hubris. If the last seven years haven't lead you to question your presumptions, I think the next few years probably will. I've had to ditch views too, trust me.

I think you'll actually find that these kinds of apocalyptic visions never come true, and that people have been having them throughout our history. Reagan gave speeches about how electing LBJ would lead to the end of freedom in America (and specifically claimed that Medicare would also be the end of freedom in America). That was one of the things that made him popular enough on the right to get elected. When you get older, you realize that people keep saying that this or that thing will end everything, but then things just keep getting better and better. You also realize that partisan attacks on whoever is currently in power from the other party are totally bullshit.

I'd also correct a misperception I think you have. Support for market economies is liberal, and generally even leftist if it's reasonable rather than dogmatic. Big part of my own evolution as a thinker has been appreciating that fact.

I've read plenty of books so I guess I resent the "right winger" label. I don't much care for the labels anyways.

I'm anti war, Anti big business, anti trans, anti abortion And a pro state rights constitutionalist. At one point I voted for Obama because I thought he represented those things. In real life my friends call me a centrist though I'd imagine that's spit your drink out funny to some of the libs here.

I don't think a centrist even tries to dehumanize the left with terms like "libs." Also, the idea that the former president should be above the law if he's in the right party is pretty extreme right.

 

[SakurabasEar]

I think you'll actually find that these kinds of apocalyptic visions never come true, and that people have been having them throughout our history. Reagan gave speeches about how electing LBJ would lead to the end of freedom in America (and specifically claimed that Medicare would also be the end of freedom in America). That was one of the things that made him popular enough on the right to get elected. When you get older, you realize that people keep saying that this or that thing will end everything, but then things just keep getting better and better. You also realize that partisan attacks on whoever is currently in power from the other party are totally bullshit.

I'd also correct a misperception I think you have. Support for market economies is liberal, and generally even leftist if it's reasonable rather than dogmatic. Big part of my own evolution as a thinker has been appreciating that fact.



I don't think a centrist even tries to dehumanize the left with terms like "libs." Also, the idea that the former president should be above the law if he's in the right party is pretty extreme right.

I'm not buying into an apocalyptic vision sold by some republican trying to sell a book. I promise you. You can't rip freedoms away from Americans that easily, we are incredibly resilient in that regard. Ive came to this conclusion of collective emptiness based on current statistics and using foresight guided by human nature. I do realize that im 30, but I think that is acually an advantage I have over you depending on how old you are.

I don't think you fully realize problems that our youth are currently facing. I deal with it on nearly a daily basis, my job is to lead them. Now you could still say that I have limited vision, thats fair. But you must also adress the record high suicide and depression rates

My point is, im not eluding to an apocalypse. I'm saying the situation is already bad and getting worse. And this will only get worse as we further progress our way out of humans having as much meaning

 

[AZ103]

I think you'll actually find that these kinds of apocalyptic visions never come true, and that people have been having them throughout our history. Reagan gave speeches about how electing LBJ would lead to the end of freedom in America (and specifically claimed that Medicare would also be the end of freedom in America). That was one of the things that made him popular enough on the right to get elected. When you get older, you realize that people keep saying that this or that thing will end everything, but then things just keep getting better and better. You also realize that partisan attacks on whoever is currently in power from the other party are totally bullshit.

I'd also correct a misperception I think you have. Support for market economies is liberal, and generally even leftist if it's reasonable rather than dogmatic. Big part of my own evolution as a thinker has been appreciating that fact.



I don't think a centrist even tries to dehumanize the left with terms like "libs." Also, the idea that the former president should be above the law if he's in the right party is pretty extreme right.

I didn't ask for you definition of a centrist. Additionally I don't beleive any president is above the law. You do. I stated I was anti war and I meant it. Several presidents have absolute hell to pay and I don't give a damn what color their tie is. It's you that makes excuses and twists based on political leanings not me.

In fact it's my side vs your side. You will mostly hear the right saying this is unfair we haven't charged presidents for much more egregious things or even non presidents for this exact offense for which they have lower clearance and the left will say that's what about ism aka what we used to call precedent, to avoid a legitimate conversation where we do look at both sides.

 

[Rob Battisti]

"State's rights" has only ever been used to defend removing federal protections, which allows for those with economic power and influence to treat those without it like commodities, to roll back rights of specific groups. And the recent election in Ohio kinda blows that theory out of the water. Abortion is now a State issue yes? Well the GOP literally tried to change the rules to reduce the voting power of the citizenry. Thankfully it didn't work despite their best efforts to first...announce a ban on August election because of low voter participation. Then, to call a last-minute August special election hoping for even more low voter turnout, say only those who hate abortion. Third, to mention sh*t that had nothing to do with the rule change they were voting on, like trans issues, parents' rights issues, and 2nd Amendment issues...NONE of which were in contention.

They tried to cheat to exert power. And without a Federal protection that's legally fine. Now you can say well they could just be voted out of office. To that I'd say lool at how gerrymandered Ohio is. Sh*t like this is oppression of a ruling class, and oppression breeds rebellion. I prefer reform, but depowering the Fed isnt the answer.

Why do you hate everything that this country was built on? How can you be so willfully ignorant.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm not buying into an apocalyptic vision sold by some republican trying to sell a book. I promise you. You can't rip freedoms away from Americans that easily, we are incredibly resilient in that regard. Ive came to this conclusion of collective emptiness based on current statistics and using foresight guided by human nature. I do realize that im 30, but I think that is acually an advantage I have over you depending on how old you are.

I don't think you fully realize problems that our youth are currently facing. I deal with it on nearly a daily basis, my job is to lead them. Now you could still say that I have limited vision, thats fair. But you must also adress the record high suicide and depression rates.

My point is, im not eluding to an apocalypse. I'm saying the situation is already bad and getting worse. And this will only get worse as we further progress our way out of humans having as much meaning

I don't discount people's individual feelings of meaning and connectedness to the world. I just don't think it's within the sphere of governance. Not caused or fixed by policy.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I didn't ask for you definition of a centrist.

But you posted a kind of crazy claim publicly, and I addressed it.

Additionally I don't beleive any president is above the law.

You don't think Trump should be allowed to get away with everything, without even having courts decide?

You do. I stated I was anti war and I meant it. Several presidents have absolute hell to pay and I don't give a damn what color their tie is. It's you that makes excuses and twists based on political leanings not me.

I'm glue and you're rubber, I guess. But I'm referring to actual posts you make where you argue against the law applying to Trump, while you're just imagining me doing this stuff.

Why do you hate everything that this country was built on? How can you be so willfully ignorant.

You really think he hates everything the country was built on? Why can't you just disagree with him without resorting to that kind of thing?