The Frode post good kung fu thread.

[TheMaster]

Bruce Lee perfected and changed the technique drastically. I've done jeet kune do mysøef. The kick chum Liu is doing is trash. Bruce did is perfectly with immense power with the pendulum step.

He didnt change anything. Its the same kick, even if you want to play around with it in different variations.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Bruce Lee perfected and changed the technique drastically. I've done jeet kune do mysøef. The kick chum Liu is doing is trash. Bruce did is perfectly with immense power with the pendulum step.

He didnt change anything. It’s the same kick, even if you want to play around with it in different variations.

 

[Danny89**]

He didnt change anything. Its the same kick, even if you want to play around with it in different variations.

He did, different with the pendulum step. Have u trained jkd, have u trained tkd or karate? There is differences rookie.

 

[TheMaster]

He did, different with the pendulum step. Have u trained jkd, have u trained tkd or karate? There is differences rookie.

Sorry, but when you make juvenile generalisations like saying "the Chum Kiu side kick is trash" as though it isnt a very powerful kick that wouldn't be effective, and as though people can't play around with it and make variations and use it in any number of ways, I dont give much credence to what you say after that.

You wouldn't use a pendulum step in Wing Chun because the weight isnt generally on the front foot so there is no need to "pendulum" onto the rear first. This isnt considered a disadvantage but an advantage when in close. I am seeing that for adaptation to a more maneuverable way of fighting with more dynamic footwork like Bruce would have done in JKD, this could come in, as one may want to step more then use a pendulum step into a side kick when you got in range, whereas the WC method assumes you are already basicallly in range when you throw the kick.

 

[Danny89**]

Sorry, but when you make juvenile generalisations like saying "the Chum Kiu side kick is trash" as though it isnt a very powerful kick that wouldn't be effective, and as though people can't play around with it and make variations and use it in any number of ways, I dont give much credence to what you say after that.

You wouldn't use a pendulum step in Wing Chun because the weight isnt generally on the front foot so there is no need to "pendulum" onto the rear first. This isnt considered a disadvantage but an advantage when in close. I am seeing that for adaptation to a more maneuverable way of fighting with more dynamic footwork like Bruce would have done in JKD, this could come in, as one may want to step more then use a pendulum step into a side kick when you got in range, whereas the WC method assumes you are already basicallly in range when you throw the kick.

Nothing disputes anything I said lol. Now show me a video of you doing it let's see how effective it is

 

[TheMaster]

Nothing disputes anything I said lol. Now show me a video of you doing it let's see how effective it is

These discussions, and the effectiveness of the Wing Chun kicks have been had many times.

Wing Chun kicks should be banned in MMA

Classic Wing Chun kick. I always said it should be banned in MMA. No point threatening someones career like that. https://www.mmamania.com/2021/9/5/22658383/ufc-fighters-khalil-rountree-oblique-knee-kick-illegal-banned-ufc-vegas-36-modestas-bukauskas Yeah I get a KO can cause concussion or...

forums.sherdog.com

Further discussion of the subject, is no longer allowed.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Nothing disputes anything I said lol. Now show me a video of you doing it let's see how effective it is

The dude will never post a pic or video of himself. Makes you wonder why. (Jk. No it doesn’t. We all know why)

 

[Mick Dojang]

I've seen Fight Commentary Breakdowns vids of guys trying to get Bajiquan to work in MMA, seems promising, maybe with more work it could be effective.

What other KF styles can actually work for MMA? KF seems to have a lot of the "it's not for sport" mindset, but imo sport is how you pressure test the style so it doesn't fossilise and become compliant wristlock practice.

Besides Sanda, what else is workable (or on the verge of workable) for MMA?

e.g. I've heard of Incense Shop Boxing a few times recently, but no idea if its effective or another fossilised system

 

[shunyata]

Further discussion of the subject, is no longer allowed.

Hol up.

A) this is a discussion forum

B) THIS IS MURICA

 

[shunyata]

I've seen Fight Commentary Breakdowns vids of guys trying to get Bajiquan to work in MMA, seems promising, maybe with more work it could be effective.

What other KF styles can actually work for MMA? KF seems to have a lot of the "it's not for sport" mindset, but imo sport is how you pressure test the style so it doesn't fossilise and become compliant wristlock practice.

Besides Sanda, what else is workable (or on the verge of workable) for MMA?

e.g. I've heard of Incense Shop Boxing a few times recently, but no idea if its effective or another fossilised system

When trained live it eventually turns into just kickboxing, but with a bit of xingyiquan flavor.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Hol up.

A) this is a discussion forum

B) THIS IS MURICA

C) THIS IS SPARTA!!!

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Been enjoying Fight Commentary Breakdown's videos on Baijiquan recently



It seems like the style vs style -> what actually works process started a bit late in China (compared to the West where it started in earnest in 1993), its been underway since Xu Xiaodong started beating the brakes off every grandmaster he could find.

Based on FCB's videos, it seems like the winners of the process from the kung fu styles are Sanda/Sanshou and possibly Baijiquan. It's not perfect but it seems possible to adapt it to an MMA scenario (some guys in his vids are attempting this with mixed success atm, and has very flashy takedowns, which would be neat to see in an MMA setting.

It's bizarre that anytime these kung fu vids show up, at the very best it looks like bottom-tier kickboxing. Why even bother with these inferior, outdated systems?

 

[StonedLemur]

These discussions, and the effectiveness of the Wing Chun kicks have been had many times.

Wing Chun kicks should be banned in MMA

Classic Wing Chun kick. I always said it should be banned in MMA. No point threatening someones career like that. https://www.mmamania.com/2021/9/5/22658383/ufc-fighters-khalil-rountree-oblique-knee-kick-illegal-banned-ufc-vegas-36-modestas-bukauskas Yeah I get a KO can cause concussion or...

forums.sherdog.com

Further discussion of the subject, is no longer allowed.

Definitely shouldn't be banned however sir.

 

[TheMaster]

Definitely shouldn't be banned however sir.

I think you'll find many, if not most fighters disagree.

 

[StonedLemur]

I think you'll find many, if not most fighters disagree.

Luckily they don't make the rules...but if they did I bet you they would almost definitely have stomps, soccer kicks and knees to a downed opponent sir.

 

[noc]

He didnt change anything. Its the same kick, even if you want to play around with it in different variations.

Bruce Lee kicks are different, he doesn't do WC kicks, Roundtree didn't do a WC kick.. is just a side kick, is not exclusive from WC, you have said MMA is WC, stop

Even if it was.. one punch or kick doesn't mean anything, the whole system is criticized

There is nothing original from it or exclusive.. chisao and trapping comes from Praying Mantis, the attacks with fingers comes from the snake style, the punching comes from European sailors who knew old boxing

I think WC if you train kinda as an Olympic athlete can be decent, Bruce said it was decent.. he was in the small group that could use it. There is no people in China training like that anymore, and there never will be again

 

[TheMaster]

Bruce Lee kicks are different, he doesn't do WC kicks,

Lol, just stop. He does WC kicks through and through in his structure

Roundtree didn't do a WC kick.. is just a side kick, is not exclusive from WC

The kick is widely documented before this in two styles- Wing Chun and Savate. Appears occasionally in others but not widely known. The Savate kick variation is with shoes so...

If anyone uses the kick to the knee, it is known correctly as the Wing Chun Stomp Kick. End.


You don't want to use any WC, dont use the kick in a fight, simple.

Even if it was.. one punch or kick doesn't mean anything, the whole system is criticized

Criticized by who? Noobs who just jumped on the martial arts train from doing boxing and weights before this?

There is nothing original from it or exclusive..

By the 'not exclusive' argument, there is no method that comes from any style, since you can find everything in boxing and karate in other styles also.

chisao and trapping comes from Praying Mantis, the attacks with fingers comes from the snake style, the punching comes from European sailors who knew old boxing

Chisao and trapping is shared between a few southern kung fu styles yes.
Wing Chun is partly based on Snake Kung Fu yes so what you say is obvious. Dont expect to see finger attacks in MMA though and dont expect many people to acknowledge they work but who cares let it remain an open secret for us.

The possible old time boxing connection is interesting but even if true, combining it with Chinese internal training methods created a much more dangerous system than those old timers ever knew, bless them though.

I think WC if you train kinda as an Olympic athlete can be decent, Bruce said it was decent.. he was in the small group that could use it. There is no people in China training like that anymore, and there never will be again

Yes, train hard and you get the best out of a system.
Have a base grappling art, learn WC. Couldn't have picked a better style and I am still getting better.

 

[shunyata]

Oh come on.

Wing Chun is a relatively new style of gungfu and stomping knees is some primal monkey shit.

This is like saying catch wrestlers invented the heel hook when there's cave art and ancient greek vases showing it.

 

[TheMaster]

Oh come on.

Wing Chun is a relatively new style of gungfu and stomping knees is some primal monkey shit.

This is like saying catch wrestlers invented the heel hook when there's cave art and ancient greek vases showing it.

Come on what?
Like I said, you can say the same about a boxing cross or uppercut. They were doing it everywhere for centuries. So lets just stop calling it boxing its just 'punching' from your point of view.
The kick is popularized widely by Wing Chun which is where it comes from in the modern era. Its the only style that teaches to do this as a go to kick.

I agree with the main points in this article

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themmaguru.com

"So what’s the concern? Is Wing Chun a deadly martial art that should be forbidden from the  UFC?

Well, Wing Chun techniques are designed to viciously incapacitate an attacker – not score points in a sport competition.

While Wing Chun hand strikes are designed to cause eye and throat damage, these are banned in MMA. Wing Chun kicks however aim to tear through tendons and ligaments – usually in the knees and ankles. And basically all MMA rulesets allows them.

If these Wing Chun techniques are executed as they are intended, there’s the potential for career-ending injuries. To be fair, Wing Chun isn’t the only martial art that is subject to this criticism. The Filipino martial art of Pekiti Tirsia Kali is another fighting style that has proven effective in self defense but isn’t a good fit for the rules of MMA.

There’s an argument to be had about how ‘unsportsmanlike’ techniques should be policed in MMA (take foot stomping for example). But when some of the world’s best strikers are concerned about the potential for Wing Chun techniques to cause irreversible damage, it’s clear that it must be a useful tool for MMA."

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

You guys heard him. Use a stomp kick to the knee and it means you use wing chun. Even if you have never trained wing chun. Makes perfect sense.

Just like wing chun fighters Jon Jones and Khalil Rountrees.