The Definitive: Top 5 Heavyweights of All-Time.

[cookdaddy]

I disagree with the criteria. If you didn't fight in the UFC, then you don't deserve to be on the list. The "Top 10" qualifier is a bunch of nonsense, because we don't who is making the rankings and what algorithm they are using to rank fighters. So, why should we care who is ranked or not?

Noob confirmed. Prides heavyweight division was leaps and bounds better than the UFCs. No need to fight in UFC when all the studs are in Pride.

 

[acannxr]

Noob confirmed. Prides heavyweight division was leaps and bounds better than the UFCs. No need to fight in UFC when all the studs are in Pride.

I made a thread on that topic awhile back, pretty much confirmed that the UFC was a third tier organization back then.

Organizations were compared, yearly, based on how many of the top ten ranked fighters of the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight divisions had the majority of their fighters in each organization.

This specific time frame was chosen due to Pride having had only one event in 1997 and only two events in 2007, neither years of which would provide an apples to apples comparison with other MMA organizations.

Rankings were from January of the respective years.

In the event a fighter had no majority number of fights in a single organization (i.e. 1 fight in Pride and 1 fight in the UFC for a single year), or didn't fight at all for the year in the division of which they were ranked, they were assigned no organization.

In the event of a tie between organizations for a single year, the tie breaker was whichever organization had the highest ranked fighter (see 2004 Light Heavyweight).

I was inspired to create this thread due to this ignorant post:

Pride Score
Light Heavyweight: 7
Heavyweight: 6
Total: 13

Pancrase Score
Light Heavyweight: 1
Heavyweight: 3
Total: 4

UFC Score
Light Heavyweight: 1
Heavyweight: 0
Total: 1

The UFC only ever won once (LHW 2004) and it was the result of a tie breaker.

 

[Bangkok ready d1]

If we gonna look purely on the records i belive jds is the best, but he's to much inconsistent so overall i belive stipe is number 1

 

[Koro_11]

Criteria:

• Number of top ten opponents at Heavyweight.
• Time spent ranked as a top five fighter in the Heavyweight Division
• Only listing #1-10 Heavyweight ranked opponents in candidates' resumes.

Honorable Mention - Cain Velasquez

Velasquez' resume:

#3 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
#1 Brock Lesnar
#9 Antonio Silva
#1 Junior dos Santos
#3 Antonio Silva
#2 Junior dos Santos
#8 Travis Browne

Velasquez defeated seven, top ten opponents.
Velasquez was ranked in the top five from 1/1/10 to 1/1/15 and 7/1/15 to 10/1/17 for a combined total of 7 years and 3 months.

The overly redundant resume and the fact that a large portion of the time that Velasquez was ranked in the top five he was inactive due to injury, is why he gets only an honorable mention.

#5 - Fabricio Werdum

Werdum's resume:

#4 Gabriel Gonzaga
#1 Fedor Emelianenko
#5 Travis Browne
#5 Mark Hunt
#1 Cain Velasquez
#8 Travis Browne

Werdum defeated six, top ten opponents.
Werdum was ranked in the top five from 4/1/08 to 10/1/08, 7/1/10 to 10/1/11, 4/1/12 to 1/1/13, 7/1/13 to 4/1/18 for a combined total of 7 years and 3 months.

#4 - Stipe Miocic

Miocic's resume:

#5 Mark Hunt
#3 Andrei Arlovski
#1 Fabricio Werdum
#3 Alistair Overeem
#5 Junior dos Santos
#2 Francis Ngannou
#1 Daniel Cormier

Miocic defeated seven, top ten opponents.
Miocic was ranked in the top five from 4/1/14 to 7/1/14 and 4/1/15 to Today for a combined total of 4 years and 11 months.

#3 - Junior dos Santos

dos Santos' resume:

#4 Fabricio Werdum
#9 Mirko Filipovic
#6 Shane Carwin
#1 Cain Velasquez
#4 Frank Mir
#9 Mark Hunt
#6 Ben Rothwell
#4 Derrick Lewis

dos Santos defeated eight, top ten opponents.
dos Santos was ranked in the top five from 10/1/09 to 4/1/10, 10/1/10 to 1/1/16, 7/1/16 to 1/1/18, and 4/1/19 to Today for a combined total of 7 years and 11 months.

#2 - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

Nogueira's resume:

#5 Valentijn Overeem
#5 Gary Goodridge
#3 Mark Coleman
#6 Ricco Rodriguez
#5 Mirko Filipovic
#10 Heath Herring
#9 Fabricio Werdum
#3 Josh Barnett
#9 Tim Sylvia
#5 Randy Couture

Nogueira defeated ten, top ten opponents.
Nogueira was ranked in the top five from 4/1/01 to 1/1/10 for a combined total of 8 years and 9 months.

#1 - Fedor Emelianenko

Emelianenko's resume:

#8 Renato Sobral
#6 Semmy Schilt
#1 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
#9 Gary Goodridge
#9 Mark Coleman
#7 Kevin Randleman
#2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
#4 Mirko Filipovic
#4 Mark Coleman
#7 Mark Hunt
#8 Tim Sylvia
#6 Andrei Arlovski
#8 Brett Rogers

Emelianenko defeated thirteen, top ten opponents.
Emelianenko was ranked in the top five from 4/1/02 to 1/1/11 for a combined total of 8 years and 9 months.

For those who will undoubtedly ask about Daniel Cormier:

Spoiler

Cormier's resume:

#6 Antonio Silva
#8 Josh Barnett
#7 Frank Mir
#1 Stipe Miocic
#5 Derrick Lewis

Cormier defeated five, top ten opponents.
Cormier was ranked in the top five from 7/1/12 to 1/1/14 and 10/1/18 to Today for a combined total of 2 years and 8 months.

Cormier has the least amount of top ten wins and the shortest amount of time spent in the top five rankings out of everyone in this list (including Velasquez).

You could change the criteria a bit and some of those names would move up and down a few spots, but overall a pretty good list and appreciate the effort.

 

[Max Power]

Brock Lesnar
Shane Carwin
Frank Mir
Randy Couture
Heath Herring

 

[acannxr]

Heath Herring

Sadly Heath Herring is remembered for three things:

 

[cookdaddy]

I made a thread on that topic awhile back, pretty much confirmed that the UFC was a second/third tier organization back then.

Yup, it's just sad that so many fans buy into the UFC hype machine without doing their research.

To put it into context, Justin Eilers and Paul Buentello were fighting for the heavyweight title in the UFC the same time that Pride had it's legendary roster of heavyweights. Think about that for a minute then come back to me and tell me the UFC had better heavyweights than Pride.

 

[cookdaddy]

Brock Lesnar
Shane Carwin
Frank Mir
Randy Couture
Heath Herring

Nice troll post.

 

[Local Plata]

Pretty hard to believe Tim Sylvia was still ranked #8, considering his next fight after Fedor he got KTFO by a 50 year old ex-boxer lmao.

 

[JPM1223]

Criteria:

• Number of top ten opponents at Heavyweight.
• Time spent ranked as a top five fighter in the Heavyweight Division
• Only listing #1-10 Heavyweight ranked opponents in candidates' resumes.

Honorable Mention - Cain Velasquez

Velasquez' resume:

#3 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
#1 Brock Lesnar
#9 Antonio Silva
#1 Junior dos Santos
#3 Antonio Silva
#2 Junior dos Santos
#8 Travis Browne

Velasquez defeated seven, top ten opponents.
Velasquez was ranked in the top five from 1/1/10 to 1/1/15 and 7/1/15 to 10/1/17 for a combined total of 7 years and 3 months.

The overly redundant resume and the fact that a large portion of the time that Velasquez was ranked in the top five he was inactive due to injury, is why he gets only an honorable mention.

#5 - Fabricio Werdum

Werdum's resume:

#4 Gabriel Gonzaga
#1 Fedor Emelianenko
#5 Travis Browne
#5 Mark Hunt
#1 Cain Velasquez
#8 Travis Browne

Werdum defeated six, top ten opponents.
Werdum was ranked in the top five from 4/1/08 to 10/1/08, 7/1/10 to 10/1/11, 4/1/12 to 1/1/13, 7/1/13 to 4/1/18 for a combined total of 7 years and 3 months.

#4 - Stipe Miocic

Miocic's resume:

#5 Mark Hunt
#3 Andrei Arlovski
#1 Fabricio Werdum
#3 Alistair Overeem
#5 Junior dos Santos
#2 Francis Ngannou
#1 Daniel Cormier

Miocic defeated seven, top ten opponents.
Miocic was ranked in the top five from 4/1/14 to 7/1/14 and 4/1/15 to Today for a combined total of 4 years and 11 months.

#3 - Junior dos Santos

dos Santos' resume:

#4 Fabricio Werdum
#9 Mirko Filipovic
#6 Shane Carwin
#1 Cain Velasquez
#4 Frank Mir
#9 Mark Hunt
#6 Ben Rothwell
#4 Derrick Lewis

dos Santos defeated eight, top ten opponents.
dos Santos was ranked in the top five from 10/1/09 to 4/1/10, 10/1/10 to 1/1/16, 7/1/16 to 1/1/18, and 4/1/19 to Today for a combined total of 7 years and 11 months.

#2 - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

Nogueira's resume:

#5 Valentijn Overeem
#5 Gary Goodridge
#3 Mark Coleman
#6 Ricco Rodriguez
#5 Mirko Filipovic
#10 Heath Herring
#9 Fabricio Werdum
#3 Josh Barnett
#9 Tim Sylvia
#5 Randy Couture

Nogueira defeated ten, top ten opponents.
Nogueira was ranked in the top five from 4/1/01 to 1/1/10 for a combined total of 8 years and 9 months.

#1 - Fedor Emelianenko

Emelianenko's resume:

#8 Renato Sobral
#6 Semmy Schilt
#1 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
#9 Gary Goodridge
#9 Mark Coleman
#7 Kevin Randleman
#2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
#4 Mirko Filipovic
#4 Mark Coleman
#7 Mark Hunt
#8 Tim Sylvia
#6 Andrei Arlovski
#8 Brett Rogers

Emelianenko defeated thirteen, top ten opponents.
Emelianenko was ranked in the top five from 4/1/02 to 1/1/11 for a combined total of 8 years and 9 months.

For those who will undoubtedly ask about Daniel Cormier:

Spoiler

Cormier's resume:

#6 Antonio Silva
#8 Josh Barnett
#7 Frank Mir
#1 Stipe Miocic
#5 Derrick Lewis

Cormier defeated five, top ten opponents.
Cormier was ranked in the top five from 7/1/12 to 1/1/14 and 10/1/18 to Today for a combined total of 2 years and 8 months.

Cormier has the least amount of top ten wins and the shortest amount of time spent in the top five rankings out of everyone in this list (including Velasquez).

Not a bad thread, FEDOR EMELIANENKO is STILL GOAT...LONG LIVE THE EMPORER!!!!!!

 

[Local Plata]

Yup, it's just sad that so many fans buy into the UFC hype machine without doing their research.

To put it into context, Justin Eilers and Paul Buentello were fighting for the heavyweight title in the UFC the same time that Pride had it's legendary roster of heavyweights. Think about that for a minute then come back to me and tell me the UFC had better heavyweights than Pride.

It was a weird time, Arlovski and Sylvia were murking everyone. Eilers and Buentello got shots just after a few wins because Arlovski needed someone to fight lmao.

 

[acannxr]

Pretty hard to believe Tim Sylvia was still ranked #8, considering his next fight after Fedor he got KTFO by a 50 year old ex-boxer lmao.

He'd dropped down to 13th by the time he fought Mercer.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I understand the criticisms, but what you're asking for makes it a lot more subjective and a lot less objective. The criteria I used makes it consistent across the board, the moment I start adding the question of who was in their prime, not in their prime, pre-USADA, post-USADA, inactivity, age, win/loss ratio, etc. then it will ultimately be impossible to judge the candidate's correct position in this list because there's no objective way to answer all those questions.

That’s fair and I get your point. The problem is that even an system that uses objective criteria is subjective because the criteria were chosen subjectively. Top ten, top five, top three, top fifteen? Wins, losses? Wins * opponents ranking - losses * opponents ranking? There are dozens of things you could’ve chosen.

 

[cookdaddy]

It was a weird time, Arlovski and Sylvia were murking everyone. Eilers and Buentello got shots just after a few wins because Arlovski needed someone to fight lmao.

Yeah it was. I get they needed contenders but that's my point. All the best heavyweights were in Pride and the 2 best remaining were champs in UFC both got starched by Fedor lol.

 

[linvillegorge]

I'm a big fan of JDS, but there's no way I'm ranking him above Cain. No way. Cain beat years off of that poor dude's life.

 

[2004 account]

This thread is correct.

 

[acannxr]

That’s fair and I get your point. The problem is that even an system that uses objective criteria is subjective because the criteria were chosen subjectively. Top ten, top five, top three, top fifteen? Wins, losses? Wins * opponents ranking - losses * opponents ranking? There are dozens of things you could’ve chosen.

But I never claimed that I was completely objective, just that the suggestions would've made things "more subjective", and something can't be "more" unless that something existed to begin with.

 

[DalchaLungiambula]

That's The Top 5 Heavyweight Resumes of All Time, not The Top 5 Heavyweights [to Compete] of All Time.

I mean, good on you for taking the time, but using someone's record as the major or even one and only criterion for gauging the best is just something that is vastly indiscriminate in nature and an unquestionably flawed process.

What if one time periods #7 ranked guy is equal to the skill level or better of another one's #2 ranked guy.

I know that is subjective and all, and thus something that not everyone will be able to agree upon as this is, but it's not really an accurate reflection of what really happened.

What if the rolling ranking themselves don't tell the full story at the time.

For example, you have someone like Cyril Gane, who is not even ranked in the top 15 in the UFC's standings, and out in the 30s-60s in other publishers rankings but would tear through pretty much everyone already as it stands, but if someone picked up a win over him now it would count for nothing?

Anyone can hop onto Wikipedia and make an aggregate GOAT list, I guess for lazy people something like this can save them time, but for people who like to think critically and have a set of eyes it's never going to wash.

Cain is clearly the best fighter to compete in the heavyweight division in the UFC since the late 2000s which is only what I could comment on, as I can't sit through Pride fights as I can't get into it - (boring).

Also, your resume point building thing doesn't seem to account for multiple wins over the same opponent. Double wins over prime JDS and the fashion that they were done in is something that makes Cain as a fighter so impressive.

 

[Local Plata]

Yeah it was. I get they needed contenders but that's my point. All the best heavyweights were in Pride and the 2 best remaining were champs in UFC both got starched by Fedor lol.

Well iirc there were a lot of injuries/contract disputes at the time too. Arlovski was beating Fedor up pretty bad too, before he went full dumb dumb.

 

[mmathurbator]

Great post ts. I like this somewhat objective ranking system, it takes personal taste, recency bias, etc. out of the equation. Kind of eye opening. Fedor is the best heavyweight ever based on longevity and resume. I was suprised to see Dos Santos at #3 but now that I think about it, it makes sense. Velasquez was a bad matchup for him and even though he beat him 2/3 he was injured and out so much that DS racked up more meaningful wins over a longer time span.