Social The Case or lack there of for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Chesten_Hesten said:
This is likely the answer!
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Aikido can be legit but I'd put it WAY below Judo, wrestling and BJJ in terms of effectiveness. But as with any training, your experience will depend heavily on the instructor and how you vibe with him and the other students. But all else being equal, if you're set on avoiding full speed rolling, I'd suggest finding a decent Judo gym and doing all the training but skipping live randori which typically happens at the end of the class. In Judo there is an accepted practice of older competitors (or simply older dudes starting out) not going live on account of injuries and age.

As a dude in your 50's with hip issues, no one will question this or give you any shit and you'd still get the benefit of learning, drilling and performing all the techniques with a compliant uke. That's pretty much how aikido training works but IMHO Judo is much more practical for self defense.
 
I think it's more of a "if you carry a firearm daily either as an armed professional or for self-protection, then you should probably possess some knowledge of grappling fundamentals and empty-hand skills to ensure that your gun doesn't become 'their gun' in the event you ever end up in a violent altercation".

Those fundamentals don't have to come from BJJ. They can come from wrestling, Judo, Sambo, etc.

The case for LEOs and adjacent jobs is easiest to make. Marietta PD paved the way with mandatory BJJ training for its frontline officers and saw a marked reduction in UoF incidents, Taser deployments, injuries, etc. Ans there are also some anecdotal videos with cops using grappling techniques to good effect. I personally work in local corrections as a DO and I've used my shit-tier, half-remembered grappling training on a few occasions and it paid off.

For those in the military... that's a different can of worms but I won't get into that here because I think people fundamentally misunderstand the intent behind military combatives and the goals of most influencers pushing for this stuff.
 
Some kind of grappling mixed with boxing is key for self defense etc... but for sure, there should be an improvement in the way it is trained for (though part of the reason it works is because you do actually train/roll hard). So... it's a fine line.


Said the guy with a bad knee from Bjj...
 
Well I don’t think these SF guys had broken old men as their target audience for this advice.

Being able to grapple is useful for any law enforcement or military personnel. You aren’t always blowing up doors and just shooting everyone in sight. You detain people, search them, take prisoners, etc. is it the most important thing? Of course not. But it’s not useless. You don’t need to be a black belt either- just some basic knowledge to give you the confidence to engage at close range.

I also know exactly the kind of guy that says “what do I need that for when I have a gun?”. It’s just excuse making for a skill they lack and don’t want to learn.
 
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If you don't co-operate, it doesn't work.



It works in street fights sometimes because a lot of guys instinctively go for the takedown.

If you're disciplined and work to stay standing, bjj guys are just punching bags.
 
Cops should 100% learn BJJ. As well as either wrestling, Sambo, or judo. The amount of cops I have seen look worthless with controlling or taking control of someone on the ground makes me facepalm.
 
Blayt7hh said:
Well I don’t think these SF guys had broken old men as their target audience for this advice.

Being able to grapple is useful for any law enforcement or military personnel. You aren’t always blowing up doors and just shooting everyone in sight. You detain people, search them, take prisoners, etc. is it the most important thing? Of course not. But it’s not useless either. You don’t need to be a black belt either- just some basic knowledge to give you the confidence to engage at close range.

I also know exactly the kind of guy that says “what do I need that for when I have a gun?”. It’s just excuse making for a skill they lack and don’t want to learn.
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This
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
If you don't co-operate, it doesn't work.



It works in street fights sometimes because a lot of guys instinctively go for the takedown.

If you're disciplined and work to stay standing, bjj guys are just punching bags.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Wonder why almost everyone trains BJJ in MMA if it doesn’t work and you just stay standing.
 
BB in Crazy!!!! said:
Hmmm. Wonder why almost everyone trains BJJ in MMA if it doesn’t work and you just stay standing.
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Because in MMA there are high level wrestlers who take the fight to the ground.

What works in professional level MMA is irrelevant in real life where either A) neither person is trained or B) one or both guys has a knife of gun. Not to mention MMA has weight classes, real life doesn't.

In real life, the best thing to do is avoid the fight entirely, or use a weapon.

A guy is currently on trial for using BJJ on a train to subdue a violent criminals and looking at spending decades in prison. He might as well have just shot the guy.
 
Safton said:
I think it's more of a "if you carry a firearm daily either as an armed professional or for self-protection, then you should probably possess some knowledge of grappling fundamentals and empty-hand skills to ensure that your gun doesn't become 'their gun' in the event you ever end up in a violent altercation".

Those fundamentals don't have to come from BJJ. They can come from wrestling, Judo, Sambo, etc.

The case for LEOs and adjacent jobs is easiest to make. Marietta PD paved the way with mandatory BJJ training for its frontline officers and saw a marked reduction in UoF incidents, Taser deployments, injuries, etc. Ans there are also some anecdotal videos with cops using grappling techniques to good effect. I personally work in local corrections as a DO and I've used my shit-tier, half-remembered grappling training on a few occasions and it paid off.

For those in the military... that's a different can of worms but I won't get into that here because I think people fundamentally misunderstand the intent behind military combatives and the goals of most influencers pushing for this stuff.
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I would say it applies the same for the military. I did 3 combat tours and it was extremely useful in a lot of situations when dealing with people in general. Especially detainees and during raids where they are being shitheads but not trying to actually fight you. Plus, it’s easier to get sideswiped by someone in urban settings As well.
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
Because in MMA there are high level wrestlers who take the fight to the ground.

What works in professional level MMA is irrelevant in real life where either A) neither person is trained or B) one or both guys has a knife of gun. Not to mention MMA has weight classes, real life doesn't.

In real life, the best thing to do is avoid the fight entirely, or use a weapon.

A guy is currently on trial for using BJJ on a train to subdue a violent criminals and looking at spending decades in prison. He might as well have just shot the guy.
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How if he wasn’t carrying a gun?

2, everyone who trains BJJ *should train takedowns* I know many don’t, also many don’t bother training striking unless they do MMA.

UFC didn’t have weightclasses to begin with, that was part of the point of BJJ. Weightclasses matter more when both guys train. And having a decent amount of BJJ training raises your chances of his gun/knife, is now my gun/knife.

You actually made a better case for BJJ training than against it.
 
BB in Crazy!!!! said:
Hmmm. Wonder why almost everyone trains BJJ in MMA if it doesn’t work and you just stay standing.
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I don’t think he even watched his own video. He rolls some bjj students and can’t get away from them. Then he enters a random tournament and bears some white belt that looked about as equally experienced as him

Now he’s bringing up the NY subway case but that guy isn’t in trouble for using bjj, he’s in trouble for strangling the guy for 4 minutes straight.

Im willing to bet this goof doesn’t train. His type are all over the internet.
 
BB in Crazy!!!! said:
How if he wasn’t carrying a gun?

2, everyone who trains BJJ *should train takedowns* I know many don’t, also many don’t bother training striking unless they do MMA.

UFC didn’t have weightclasses to begin with, that was part of the point of BJJ. Weightclasses matter more when both guys train. And having a decent amount of BJJ training raises your chances of his gun/knife, is now my gun/knife.

You actually made a better case for BJJ training than against it.
Click to expand...

Yes UFC didn't have weight classes and when the Gracies found out Big John McCarthy knew somewhat about BJJ, they didn't let him compete because he would have destroyed Royce Gracie and the whole BJJ thing would have never happened.
 
method115 said:
My sister had a similar experience and ended up quitting because of it. It was like that for me the first time I trained but weirdly enough when I went back 5 years later it was much easier on my body. Now my body never really hurts unless I'm overtraining which happens fairly often cause I don't know how to chill.
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I used to get injured way more when I started than I do now. I think once you figure out your game and you know how flexible your various joints are and don't try and be a hero then you're generally fine.

I think at that point you're more likely to get injured by someone rolling/falling into you from elsewhere on the mat.
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
If you don't co-operate, it doesn't work.



It works in street fights sometimes because a lot of guys instinctively go for the takedown.

If you're disciplined and work to stay standing, bjj guys are just punching bags.
Click to expand...


Most decent BJJ schools will cover takedowns. Of course just pulling guard isn't going to work.
 
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