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No and it was never my point. I’m not saying Oleinik is better than prime Fedor or even Nog.

I used Oleinik as an example for a good grappler, that Blaydes has beaten. I would say that Blaydes probably beats prime Fedor and Nog

He's a pretty good sub grappler(probably #2 today at hw such as it is behind Werdum) but he's almost entirely a top game grappler, he's not really ever shown a threat from his back in terms of subs or sweeps which Blaydes would be facing vs Fedor or Nog.

Someone like Coleman I think gets called out as lacking sub defence but really who "exposed" him? Fedor and Nog, he wasnt getting subbed by Pete WIlliams.
 
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He's a pretty good sub grappler(probably #2 today at hw such as it is behind Werdum) but he's almost entirely a top game grappler, he's not really ever shown a threat from his back in terms of subs or sweeps which Blaydes would be facing vs Fedor or Nog.

Someone like Coleman I think gets called out as lacking sub defence but really who "exposed" him? Fedor and Nog, he wasnt getting subbed by Pete WIlliams.
Coleman had a submission loss from Japanese pro wrestling can with a record of 1-2 before he fought Nog. Try harder

Curtis has never been submitted.
 
Coleman had a submission loss from Japanese pro wrestling can with a record of 1-2 before he fought Nog. Try harder

Curtis has never been submitted.

Your honestly telling me that Colemans "loss" to a Takada is a judge of his abilties? anyone with knowledge of that era of MMA knows that fight was a fix, Coleman controled his easily then suddenly fed him a leg, its been pretty much admitted he did it in return of the opportunity to fight in the 2000 GP.

I think its you who needs to learn a bit more about the sports history before lecturing others.
 
Your honestly telling me that Colemans "loss" to a Takada is a judge of his abilties? anyone with knowledge of that era of MMA knows that fight was a fix, Coleman controled his easily then suddenly fed him a leg, its been pretty much admitted he did it in return of the opportunity to fight in the 2000 GP.

I think its you who needs to learn a bit more about the sports history before lecturing others.
A loss is a loss. And it happened in Pride, so that does undermine the whole greatness of Fedor if you insist they had fixed fights there
 
Coleman had a submission loss from Japanese pro wrestling can with a record of 1-2 before he fought Nog. Try harder

Curtis has never been submitted.

Interesting how Coleman and Randleman beat a bunch of jiu jitsu black belts:
Bonnar, Shogun Rua, Ninja Rua, Sobral, Ricardo Morais, Mario Netto, Alan Goes, Fontes Braga, Shoji.

On the other hand Curtis never faced submission expert in submission friendly ruleset like Pride or Rings, and never fought in the ring where he can't keep distance.
 
A loss is a loss. And it happened in Pride, so that does undermine the whole greatness of Fedor if you insist they had fixed fights there

Sorry but theres no back paddeling out of showing that degree of ignorance and there were fixed matches in the UFC in that era as well.

Really though these fixes were picked up on almost right away, it took awhile for Coleman/Kerr to confirm it but pretty much everyones considerd Takada/Coleman a fix when I started following the sport more seriously in 2001/02.
 
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Interesting how Coleman and Randleman beat a bunch of jiu jitsu black belts:
Bonnar, Shogun Rua, Ninja Rua, Sobral, Ricardo Morais, Mario Netto, Alan Goes, Fontes Braga, Shoji.

On the other hand Curtis never faced submission expert in submission friendly ruleset like Pride or Rings, and never fought in the ring where he can't keep distance.
Common man, you’re desperate. You put together BJJ opponents of 2 fighters before and after they fought Nog to make it somehow look impressive.

Coleman only fought Shoji and Goes before losing to Nog. Blaydes beat JDS and Oleinik.
 
Sorry but theres no back paddeling out of showing that degree of ignorance and there were fixed matches in the UFC in that era as well.

Really though these fixes were picked up on almost right away, it took awhile for Coleman/Kerr to confirm it but pretty much everyones considerd Takada/Coleman a fix when I started following the sport more seriously in 2001/02.
Are you asking for some participation trophy for being a fan for so long? Sounds like a great achievement.

Nonetheless Coleman has plenty of loses to very mediocre competition when he faced Nog. His resume ain’t even comparable to Blaydes
 
Are you asking for some participation trophy for being a fan for so long? Sounds like a great achievement.

Nonetheless Coleman has plenty of loses to very mediocre competition when he faced Nog. His resume ain’t even comparable to Blaydes

No I'm asking for some very basic knowledge of the sport which obviously plays into the discussion, you claiming that Colemans sub defence was terrible because of a well known fixed fight.

Coleman before Nog basically had a run of matches in the UFC were people who able to hang on under him until he gassed, none of them were able to threaten him with subs on the ground and as mentioned him and Randleman have several wins over high level BJJ guys.

Again this comes down to quality of comp, fighters back in the 00's were facing elite submission fighting much more often at HW than they do today. Alot of modern HW's submission defence has really not be tested very much at all so to claim its massively evolved seems very questionable, I remember people claiming Cain would easily neutralize Werdum on the ground and beat him up.

Your a newbie parroting UFC spiel at us mistaking it for knowledge of the sport rather than marketing designed to empty your bank account.
 
In b4 people claiming pride hw division full of freakshows was better
33 34 yr old fedor wont even get a belt at todays hw.and yes ur under estimating these older but much better fighters
 
Yeah 2002-2006 versions were unbeatable, but 2007-2008 versions got demolished in UFC. Makes sense

Of course it makes sense. Guys who had been fighting since the late 90's declined around that period. It wasn't just Pride fighters:

-Chuck
-Randy
-Hughes
-Tito
etc.

You're too new to understand this but timing is crucial in fighting.

Plus Pride fighters were at a big disadvantage by having to adapt to the UFC so late in their careers. It's not easy to fight in a new enviroment, under different rules and scoring criteria against guys who have been fighting there for years. Even Khabib had to adapt to the UFC and almost lost to a can in the process. Cro-Cop and Nog were already veterans when they were signed. Still, Nog became interim champion. Younger guys like Shogun (who also had trouble adapting) and Ramapage (who had experience in the cage) became champs.

So yes, it makes sense if you understand fighting. And no they were not unbeatable, they were just better than DC/Stipe.

Cheers.
 
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No I'm asking for some very basic knowledge of the sport which obviously plays into the discussion, you claiming that Colemans sub defence was terrible because of a well known fixed fight.

Coleman before Nog basically had a run of matches in the UFC were people who able to hang on under him until he gassed, none of them were able to threaten him with subs on the ground and as mentioned him and Randleman have several wins over high level BJJ guys.

Again this comes down to quality of comp, fighters back in the 00's were facing elite submission fighting much more often at HW than they do today. Alot of modern HW's submission defence has really not be tested very much at all so to claim its massively evolved seems very questionable, I remember people claiming Cain would easily neutralize Werdum on the ground and beat him up.

Your a newbie parroting UFC spiel at us mistaking it for knowledge of the sport rather than marketing designed to empty your bank account.
BJJ really isn’t that effective on a high level of MMA. There are no current champions coming from BJJ and the are very few in top10 of any division. Once everyone has good TDD defence and basic submission defence skills BJJ becomes a bit ineffective.
 
Of course it makes sense. Guys who had been fighting since the late 90's declined around that period. It wasn't just Pride fighters:

-Chuck
-Randy
-Hughes
-Tito
etc.

You're too new to understand this but timing is crucial in fighting.

Plus Pride fighters were at a big disadvantage by having to adapt to the UFC so late in their careers. It's not easy to fight in a new enviroment, under different rules and scoring criteria against guys who have been fighting there for years. Even Khabib had to adapt to the UFC and almost lost to a can in the process. Cro-Cop and Nog were already veterans when they were signed. Still, Nog became interim champion. Younger guys like Shogun (who also had trouble adapting) and Ramapage (who had experience in the cage) became champs.

So yes, it makes sense if you understand fighting. And no they were not unbeatable, they were just better than DC/Stipe.

Cheers.
First of all DC and Stipe are better. You can’t make any objective argument against that. DC and Stipe demolished many fighters that beat Fedor, Nog and CC. They also haven’t lost to anyone that one of those guys had beat.

Secondly Fedor and CroCop didn’t even compete in MMA in late 90’s.

Thirdly, look at top fighters who came post USADA. None of them are suddenly falling off after they hit 30 like those Pride guys and some pre USADA UFC fighters did.

MMA is a very young sport that is growing exponentially. It’s ridiculous that you think all of the evolution happened in first 10 years and it has somehow become worse in the following 15-20 years. Although the talent pool has grown in mind blowing proportions. How many MMA gyms have opened in that time? How many fighters have started MMA? To how many countries the sport has expanded? How much more knowledge and training techniques are there now comparing to 20 years ago? Nutrition and conditioning?

Yet everyone is bad now and 15 years ago gods roamed among men. Yeah that makes so much sense
 
Coleman had a submission loss from Japanese pro wrestling can with a record of 1-2 before he fought Nog. Try harder

.
Strange that you decided to suicide your account like that, tho...

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2020 people age better. So prime lasts longer plus experience? Older competitors dominate. So much so that this new breed we were told of can't crack top 10.
 
Pride HW was the absolute peak of the division. Current HW consists mainly of remnants from 15 years ago and the overall skill level is absurdly low compared to years past.
 
Coleman had a submission loss from Japanese pro wrestling can with a record of 1-2 before he fought Nog. Try harder

Curtis has never been submitted.

You fucking noob lmao.

Way to expose yourself as clueless on yet ANOTHER subject you post about.

Coleman Takada was a well known work.

And no, it doesn't make all PRIDE fights works.

Your DO know early UFC had thrown fights too??
 
You fucking noob lmao.

Way to expose yourself as clueless on yet ANOTHER subject you post about.

Coleman Takada was a well known work.

And no, it doesn't make all PRIDE fights works.

Your DO know early UFC had thrown fights too??
Still doesn’t change my point. Coleman has a lot worse resume than Blaydes has.
 
There were times when people were burned on a cross for saying that the world isn’t flat.
Reminds of Sherdog
Galileo would have been burned at a stake, jus´like Giordano Bruno... not on a cross, tho...
 
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