The American Gun Rights Thread Vol. 4

[Rational Poster]

Link for the above stats.

Most guns criminals use are gotten through straw purchases or illegal FFL dealer sales.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

Thank you for proving my point.

The issue is with the initial purchasers and the history after the initial purchase.

 

[oldshadow]

Thank you for proving my point.

The issue is with the initial purchasers and the history after the initial purchase.

Yes and what we need is more criminal control to help fix it.

A felon in possession of a gun should get at least 5 years for the first offense and 10 years for the second. That's just for having it no commenting a crime with it.

If you straw purchase for a felon it should be 10 years.

If you knowing sell to a felon it should be 10 years.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Politicians go after rifles because they're an easy target, a low hanging fruit for legislation. Something obviously unnecessarily dangerous to most people and they might actually make some progress on.

The truth is if they were talking about banning or regulating handguns you'd be blowing your gasket just as hard, if not harder.

I wouldn't be.

Atleast that would make some sense.

In what world does making a BS argument count as low hanging fruit?

The reality is that I used to be for moving handguns to the Class III weapons list. Because what the Dems have purposed is absolutely retarded, I no longer support even that.

There is no rational that can explain why Dems have went after rifles, other then they are arrogant and incompetent, or it is conspiracy.

Pick one, but both make the Dems look very bad.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The issue is with the initial purchasers and the history after the initial purchase.

That would about cover it.

 

[oldshadow]

Yes and what we need is more criminal control to help fix it.

A felon in possession of a gun should get at least 5 years for the first offense and 10 years for the second. That's just for having it no commenting a crime with it.

If you straw purchase for a felon it should be 10 years.

If you knowing sell to a felon it should be 10 years.

Most gun crime is committed by people that cannot legally own a gun.

 

[Rational Poster]

I wouldn't be.

Atleast that would make some sense.

In what world does making a BS argument count as low hanging fruit?

The reality is that I used to be for moving handguns to the Class III weapons list. Because what the Dems have purposed is absolutely retarded, I no longer support even that.

There is no rational that can explain why Dems have went after rifles, other then they are arrogant and incompetent, or it is conspiracy.

Pick one, but both make the Dems look very bad.

There has been serious efforts in limiting magazine capacity and other limitations on handguns in a lot of states. It's really isn't true that Democrats are just going after rifles.

It just happens that a lot of the more serious mass shootings have been carried out by essentially military grade firearms, though admittedly not exclusively, and people react to those specific cases.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

There has been serious efforts in limiting magazine capacity and other limitations on handguns in a lot of states. It's really isn't true that Democrats are just going after rifles.

It just happens that a lot of the more serious mass shootings have been carried out by essentially military grade firearms, though admittedly not exclusively.

Can you elaborate on the "other limitations on handguns in a lot of states"?

Is every semi-auto rifle military grade?

 

[Rational Poster]

Yes and what we need is more criminal control to help fix it.

A felon in possession of a gun should get at least 5 years for the first offense and 10 years for the second. That's just for having it no commenting a crime with it.

If you straw purchase for a felon it should be 10 years.

If you knowing sell to a felon it should be 10 years.

You want the right to own firearms? Great. I don't care if you want to own a machine gun if you're a responsible owner and you're willing to demonstrate it. You also have the ultimate responsibility of protecting those firearms from criminals for your entire life.

If you want to pass ownership of your firearm to another owner, that needs to be clearly documented. If your weapon is used in a crime by someone else and it's not clearly documented as a legal transfer or as stolen, you must be penalized severely.

If we crack down hard on owners and shady dealers, we can limit the flow of illegal weapons and reduce gun violence indirectly.

 

[golvmopp]

Americans love their guns and mass shootings. I say leave em alone and let them go. I love the collective brain farts when they explain mass shootings with anything but easy access to guns and then do Dick about it.

Men håll käften för fan. The same state apparatus you call upon for your protection and safety is the same state apparatus that put a gag-order on their law enforcement on all crimes committed by refugees (google "code 291") for the purpose of hiding the statistic truth of importing masses of incompatible savages into Sweden. If that's the authority you wish to call on when the shit hits the fan, you're fucking mentally ill.

 

[Rational Poster]

Can you elaborate on the "other limitations on handguns in a lot of states"?

Is every semi-auto rifle military grade?

I'd consider military grade a weapon with equivalent muzzle velocity, rate of fire, magazine capacity, stopping power to rifles used by our military. Even semi-auto weapons can have their rate of fire limited further.

But ultimately I'm ok with responsible owners owning actual military rifles if they're willing to demonstrate their responsibility and are willing to face the consequences of their weapons falling into the wrong hands.

 

[oldshadow]

You want the right to own firearms? Great. I don't care if you want to own a machine gun if you're a responsible owner and you're willing to demonstrate it. You also have the ultimate responsibility of protecting those firearms from criminals for your entire life.

If you want to pass ownership of your firearm to another owner, that needs to be clearly documented. If your weapon is used in a crime by someone else and it's not clearly documented as a legal transfer or as stolen, you must be penalized severely.

If we crack down hard on owners and shady dealers, we can limit the flow of illegal weapons and reduce gun violence indirectly.

So you want to fuck with the legal gun owners and not the criminals.

We will always fight universal background checks and gun registration .

For some reason some people don't want to hold the criminals responsible for their actions..

 

[Rational Poster]

So you want to fuck with the legal gun owners and not the criminals.

We will always fight universal background checks and gun registration .

For some reason some people don't want to hold the criminals responsible for their actions..

Did I say not to penalize criminals too?

We already have incredibly harsh gun laws for criminals. It's time to start policing the source of illegal guns; legal gun owners and dealers.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I'd consider military grade a weapon with equivalent muzzle velocity, rate of fire, magazine capacity, stopping power to rifles used by our military. Even semi-auto weapons can have their rate of fire limited further.

But ultimately I'm ok with responsible owners owning actual military rifles if they're willing to demonstrate their responsibility and are willing to face the consequences of their weapons falling into the wrong hands.

So anything but a .22lr in semi-auto? We'll just ignore that "military grade" would be select-fire, which was essentially banned in 1986.

Personally I'm not in favor of having to take a test to exercise a right. But if that's what people want then there shouldn't be any objection to adding firearms safety to the PE curriculum in public education. I'm also not in favor of punishing people for crimes committed by others. But if parents want to start doing jail time for their kid's transgressions I'll abide.

 

[Rational Poster]

So anything but a .22lr in semi-auto? We'll just ignore that "military grade" would be select-fire, which was essentially banned in 1986.

Personally I'm not in favor of having to take a test to exercise a right. But if that's what people want then there shouldn't be any objection to adding firearms safety to the PE curriculum in public education. I'm also not in favor of punishing people for crimes committed by others. But if parents want to start doing jail time for their kid's transgressions I'll abide.

As it is now for vehicles..

Let's say you own a car, you let your son drive it around. One night your son is out and he uses the car to commit a crime. The police catch him and your vehicle is impounded.

Unless you're willing to press charges on your son for grand theft, your vehicle will be forfeited to the state and you can be charged with aiding and abetting that crime.

Why should firearms be treated any differently from vehicles in that regard? You aren't being punished for the crime committed, you are being punished for aiding that crime which is a separate offense.

 

[oldshadow]

Did I say not to penalize criminals too?

We already have incredibly harsh gun laws for criminals. It's time to start policing the source of illegal guns; legal gun owners and dealers.

So you didn't read my link. How is a straw purchases legal or an FFL holder dirty sale legal gun owners.

Criminals don't get their guns from legal gun owners.

And they don't do shit to felons they find with a gun. They get a couple of months at the most if any time.

Hell Biden when asked why don't we charge felons when they try an purchase a gun said "we don't have time for that".

You are trying to blame legal gun owners for something they are not responsible for.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

As it is now for vehicles..

Let's say you own a car, you let your son drive it around. One night your son is out and he uses the car to commit a crime. The police catch him and your vehicle is impounded.

Unless you're willing to press charges on your son for grand theft, your vehicle will be forfeited to the state and you can be charged with aiding and abetting that crime.

Why should firearms be treated any differently from vehicles in that regard?

So if a kid gets a DUI the parents don't get the car back and if a criminal steals your gun and robs someone you can't have it returned?

 

[Rational Poster]

So you didn't read my link. How is a straw purchases legal or an FFL holder dirty sale legal gun owners.

Criminals don't get their guns from legal gun owners.

And they don't do shit to felons they find with a gun. They get a couple of months at the most if any time.

Hell Biden when asked why don't we charge felons when they try an purchase a gun said "we don't have time for that".

You are trying to blame legal gun owners for something they are not responsible for.

The straw purchaser is technically a legal gun owner doing something illegal.

Throw the book at them.

 

[oldshadow]

As it is now for vehicles..

Let's say you own a car, you let your son drive it around. One night your son is out and he uses the car to commit a crime. The police catch him and your vehicle is impounded.

Unless you're willing to press charges on your son for grand theft, your vehicle will be forfeited to the state and you can be charged with aiding and abetting that crime.

Why should firearms be treated any differently from vehicles in that regard? You aren't being punished for the crime committed, you are being punished for aiding that crime which is a separate offense.

So if you car is stolen and used in a drive by you should be charged because your car was used.

 

[Rational Poster]

So if a kid gets a DUI the parents don't get the car back and if a criminal steals your gun and robs someone you can't have it returned?

If it's a felony DUI, they don't unless you also press charges.

Firearm theft is smaller percentage, but obviously a problem that is difficult to avoid. If you report a weapon stolen that would absolve you of the crime, just like charging your son with grand theft would absolve you from aiding and abetting.

 

[Rational Poster]

So if you car is stolen and used in a drive by you should be charged because your car was used.

If you don't report it stolen or press charges after the fact, you will be yes, there is no should be, that's how it already is.