Crime Texas: Two fat hillbillies kill a Father over garbage

[Slick_36]

Should the need arise I see nothing wrong with justifiably defending yourself while armed . . . I'm not advocating for random vigilantes to become a thing.



You've seen where I've stated several times that everyone involved in this should've just walked away right?

I see that. I just argue that it wasn't justified since they introduced the danger to begin with so they could defend the bin they shared with the guy. If you have a gun, you should be expected not to engage in petty arguments with people you know have an anger problem. If they knew he was a danger, then engaging him armed and alone over trash was irresponsible and led to his death.

 

[spamking]

I think they made the mistake of giving those pieces of shit too much credit in assuming they had some respect for human life and would cut the tough guy shit before it got to that point.

Look, I get that the guy went nuts because he felt like he was disrespected and because the two guys had guns on them around his kids. But other than the idiot son taunting him back or responding to his verbal tirade I didn't get the impression that the old dude wanted to kill him or was hoping to provoke him. I've only watched the video once though.

It's not like he lunged at them

That we can see . . . the old dude clearly warned him and the dead dude called his bluff and paid for it from what I could see.

it built up and there were plenty of chances to walk away.

So many options to walk away . . . for all of them.

In fact their calm demeanor and taunts shows they felt they weren't in danger and intentionally provoked the guy.

Provoked him how? By not leaving?

 

[Slick_36]

And posts like this make gun grabbers look like the fascists they are.

They didn't break a law. It was a legal shooting. Say they could have handled it better all you want, but you threaten to kill someone, grab a murder weapon, and charge at someone, and it is a legal shooting.

You idiots claiming this is Illegal, are no better then the fat rednecks.

Dude, I'm not even a gun grabber. I defend the right to bear arms all of the time even if I'm in the minority and emotions are high. I've defended it in this thread even with one of my first posts. This was an irresponsible use of guns and only gives ammo to the gun grabbers because it was a senseless death because a couple of idiots decided to pull out guns over a mattress.

 

[spamking]

Have you ever held a loaded firearm? Or shot one?

Uh, yeah . . . I have my concealed carry permit and license to sell them. Why?

To have the balls to point a loaded firearm at another unarmed individual, hell two loaded firearms is just despicable.

Did either point at him until he moved closure to them? If you're stupid enough to continue to confront someone who is armed instead of walking away (especially with your kids and wife around) you can't blame the armed folks for defending themselves.

I understand protection, keep the guns holstered. The guns really escalated the situation for no reason other than fatty’s wanted to feel strong.

You sure want to push that idea don't you . . . I'll agree that they were definitely emboldened by being armed, but other than the son being mouthy back I don't think the old dude escalated anything.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Dude, I'm not even a gun grabber. I defend the right to bear arms all of the time even if I'm in the minority and emotions are high. I've defended it in this thread even with one of my first posts. This was an irresponsible use of guns and only gives ammo to the gun grabbers because it was a senseless death because a couple of idiots decided to pull out guns over a mattress.

That's different then calling it Illegal. That shit pisses me off. Im glad your pro 2nd, but call them idiots, not criminals.

 

[spamking]

I see that. I just argue that it wasn't justified since they introduced the danger to begin with so they could defend the bin they shared with the guy.

Yes, it was a stupid move for them to feel like they needed to play trash police.

If you have a gun, you should be expected not to engage in petty arguments with people you know have an anger problem.

Yes, folks should be more responsible while armed . . .

If they knew he was a danger, then engaging him armed and alone over trash was irresponsible and led to his death.

If they knew he was dangerous engaging him armed (over the appropriate thing) would be the only proper way to engage him if you're too stubborn to call the cops and felt the need to handle things on your own. But I don't believe either armed man hoped to kill someone over the mattress or dumpster issue (whatever issue they had with him).

I have no idea why they were so butthurt over him dumping a mattress in the dumpster.

Using a firearm for protection should be a last resort.

 

[Slick_36]

Look, I get that the guy went nuts because he felt like he was disrespected and because the two guys had guns on them around his kids. But other than the idiot son taunting him back or responding to his verbal tirade I didn't get the impression that the old dude wanted to kill him or was hoping to provoke him. I've only watched the video once though.



That we can see . . . the old dude clearly warned him and the dead dude called his bluff and paid for it from what I could see.



So many options to walk away . . . for all of them.



Provoked him how? By not leaving?

Old guy was telling him to swing or get the bat and see what happens. Not exactly de-escalating the situation but provoking him with a threat. He could have told the son to stop taunting just as much as the woman could have told the husband to walk away. They're the ones who came out to engage the guy, they're the ones with deadly ranged weapons, they're the ones initiating the confrontation and bringing out the deadly force. How is that not provoking but defense?

 

[Slick_36]

That's different then calling it Illegal. That shit pisses me off. Im glad your pro 2nd, but call them idiots, not criminals.

When idiocy leads to the death of a person, I'd call that criminal. Guns aren't for using as leverage when you get in to arguments over trash. There are laws against using guns irresponsibly. If they knew he was a danger, they shouldn't have engaged with him but left it to proper authorities who aren't biased and know the law.

 

[Slick_36]

Yes, it was a stupid move for them to feel like they needed to play trash police.



Yes, folks should be more responsible while armed . . .



If they knew he was dangerous engaging him armed (over the appropriate thing) would be the only proper way to engage him if you're too stubborn to call the cops and felt the need to handle things on your own. But I don't believe either armed man hoped to kill someone over the mattress or dumpster issue (whatever issue they had with him).

I have no idea why they were so butthurt over him dumping a mattress in the dumpster.

Using a firearm for protection should be a last resort.

I don't get how you can continue to defend them, saying it was justified when you admit it was irresponsible and they could have called the cops before or walked away at any time.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

Who will defend the sanctity of back alley dumpsters, if not for these brave heroes?

If they were my neighbours I would hate for them to find out about my late library books.

 

[spamking]

Old guy was telling him to swing or get the bat and see what happens. Not exactly de-escalating the situation but provoking him with a threat. He could have told the son to stop taunting just as much as the woman could have told the husband to walk away. They're the ones who came out to engage the guy, they're the ones with deadly ranged weapons, they're the ones initiating the confrontation and bringing out the deadly force. How is that not provoking but defense?

I can understand the idea that had neither armed man bothered with the situation it wouldn't have escalated. I'll even concede that the two stoked the fire and only added to the dead guy's anger. So you see it as an offensive shooting instead of defensive?

I guess I can understand that angle too . . .

I really hope others learn from this situation and avoid similar outcomes . . . .

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

If they were my neighbours I would hate for them to find out about my late library books.

As long as your recycling and trash are properly sorted, you don't need to fear for your life.

 

[VivaRevolution]

When idiocy leads to the death of a person, I'd call that criminal. Guns aren't for using as leverage when you get in to arguments over trash. There are laws against using guns irresponsibly. If they knew he was a danger, they shouldn't have engaged with him but left it to proper authorities who aren't biased and know the law.

But that isn't what led to his death. Screaming death threats, grabbing a murder weapon, and charging armed people led to the death.

What is hard to understand about that?

Those guys were idiots. They didn't break a law.

If you say foul shit to me, get me to push you, and then you knock me out, call the cops and get me charged with assault. You are an ass, but I broke the law. End of story. I get an ass whooping and a assault charge as a prize for being stupid.

 

[HomeRun916]

Uh, yeah . . . I have my concealed carry permit and license to sell them. Why?



Did either point at him until he moved closure to them? If you're stupid enough to continue to confront someone who is armed instead of walking away (especially with your kids and wife around) you can't blame the armed folks for defending themselves.



You sure want to push that idea don't you . . . I'll agree that they were definitely emboldened by being armed, but other than the son being mouthy back I don't think the old dude escalated anything.

Lol stopped reading after you say you have a CC permit.

If true, you should know better.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

I see that. I just argue that it wasn't justified since they introduced the danger to begin with so they could defend the bin they shared with the guy. If you have a gun, you should be expected not to engage in petty arguments with people you know have an anger problem. If they knew he was a danger, then engaging him armed and alone over trash was irresponsible and led to his death.

They already dumped the mattress in his yard twice instead of calling the illegal dumping tip line. They clearly feel strongly about this issue.

 

[spamking]

I don't get how you can continue to defend them, saying it was justified when you admit it was irresponsible and they could have called the cops before or walked away at any time.

I've said I disagreed with murder charges but felt like manslaughter charges were more appropriate . . . it may appear that I'm defending their stupidity, but I'm more arguing against them being charged with murder than anything.

 

[spamking]

Lol stopped reading after you say you have a CC permit.

If true, you should know better.

Whatever sport . . .

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

 

[HomeRun916]

Whatever sport . . .

Getting mad on an Internet forum, def responsible enough to sell firearms.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/09/...-shooting-neighbor-during-dispute-over-trash/

...a video appears to show John holding a handgun and Michael wielding a shotgun as they argued with Howard in an alleyway on the morning in question. Box told the Star-Telegram that, at one point during a dispute, Howard’s brother went into their Abilene home and got a baseball bat.

/

Box and Howard were in their backyard that morning and reportedly noticed the mattress on their property, prompting them to put the mattress back into the dumpster. As he put the mattress in the dumpster, Box said John came to the alley, removed the mattress, and threw it back on their property.

Box claimed Howard went into “papa bear mode” when the pair brandished their guns, as Howard’s nieces and nephews were in the backyard amid the confrontation.

In the video Box provided to KTXS, the Millers—with their guns in plain view—are heard telling Howard that they’ll shoot him if he comes closer. Howard is caught mentioning something about getting a BB gun.

/

Reports indicated that at least five shots were fired. Howard’s cause of death was listed as “gunshot wound of the chest and shotgun wound of the chest,” according to the news station.

In a statement issued to the Abilene Reporter, Police Chief Stan Standridge said he filed a motion of insufficiency of bond in district court Friday “to address the (Abilene Police) Department and public’s concern.” Stanridge also indicated that the video gave detectives more context regarding what happened that fateful morning.

“He [Detective Jordan Brown] believes it is apparent from the video, combined with the interviews of the Millers, that they were tired of their neighbor, Aaron Howard, acting out and yelling and threatening them verbally,” the chief said. “They brought out firearms during this argument and both Millers stood in the alley as Aaron Howard got more and more upset. As soon as he raised the bat while approximately seven or more feet away from John, John shot him.”