Tendons and healing

DoctorWashington

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Hey guys, do any of you have any personal experience with tendon injuries and healing?

I'm trying to become more knowledgeable about this. The science as I understand it so far, is not as advanced as many other areas of exercise related healing. The general consensus as I understand it is that tendons heal slowly and often don't return to preinjury levels of function. Many of the mechanisms for this are poorly understood from what I have been learning. The studies and research on this sort of thing often end with the authors admitting there are still a lot of unknowns here and lots of things left to nail down scientifically.

I was wondering if any of you meat heads have any stories for me? Good outcomes, bad outcomes, and what happened along the way? Thank you!
 
Hey guys, do any of you have any personal experience with tendon injuries and healing?

I'm trying to become more knowledgeable about this. The science as I understand it so far, is not as advanced as many other areas of exercise related healing. The general consensus as I understand it is that tendons heal slowly and often don't return to preinjury levels of function. Many of the mechanisms for this are poorly understood from what I have been learning. The studies and research on this sort of thing often end with the authors admitting there are still a lot of unknowns here and lots of things left to nail down scientifically.

I was wondering if any of you meat heads have any stories for me? Good outcomes, bad outcomes, and what happened along the way? Thank you!


long story short blood flow is a key contributor to tendons healing
 
Have no doctor or medical explanation to a recovery. Last year doing some cleans, missed a catch with the bar landing high on fingers and bent hand back to wrist. Something loud popped inside of palm. Thought wrist was broke. Couple months slowly stretching it all day, finally able to get some range of motion back. Had to be 4+ months before it didn't hurt to catch a bar over 1 plate again.
 
long story short blood flow is a key contributor to tendons healing

I think it's a factor, yes.

Have no doctor or medical explanation to a recovery. Last year doing some cleans, missed a catch with the bar landing high on fingers and bent hand back to wrist. Something loud popped inside of palm. Thought wrist was broke. Couple months slowly stretching it all day, finally able to get some range of motion back. Had to be 4+ months before it didn't hurt to catch a bar over 1 plate again.

Thanks. Have you been able to get back to doing the same intensity and frequency with cleans as you were before this injury?
 
Thanks. Have you been able to get back to doing the same intensity and frequency with cleans as you were before this injury?
Time perception way off, was less than 3 months. Happened in May, but August was back adding weight. Had to go look. Still 90 days felt like forever being hindered in gym.

Cleans are painless today. Doing reverse palm stretching and planche style planks has a slight irritation if weight is back too long.
 
Hey guys, do any of you have any personal experience with tendon injuries and healing?

I'm trying to become more knowledgeable about this. The science as I understand it so far, is not as advanced as many other areas of exercise related healing. The general consensus as I understand it is that tendons heal slowly and often don't return to preinjury levels of function. Many of the mechanisms for this are poorly understood from what I have been learning. The studies and research on this sort of thing often end with the authors admitting there are still a lot of unknowns here and lots of things left to nail down scientifically.

I was wondering if any of you meat heads have any stories for me? Good outcomes, bad outcomes, and what happened along the way? Thank you!

Full ruptures require surgery. Partial tears and tendinitis heal over time.

The single best thing I know for tendinitis or partial tears is BPC157 peptide. It is best injected but orals or dermaroller+dmso+ powder(from capsule) could work too. Pills would be the last choice. BPC combines very well with TB500(often sold as TB4). You can find combo vials of BPC/TB. I used these to recover from crippling nearly year long golfer's elbow. It also significantly improved other injuries since the effects are systemic.

Another common supplement that can help speed up healing would be cissus(bulksupplements sells relatively inexpensive powder on Amazon). But it's far more hit and miss. There's evidence it helps speeds up bone healing and a long time ago I remember it helped with moderate tendinitis.
 
Full ruptures require surgery. Partial tears and tendinitis heal over time.

The single best thing I know for tendinitis or partial tears is BPC157 peptide. It is best injected but orals or dermaroller+dmso+ powder(from capsule) could work too. Pills would be the last choice. BPC combines very well with TB500(often sold as TB4). You can find combo vials of BPC/TB. I used these to recover from crippling nearly year long golfer's elbow. It also significantly improved other injuries since the effects are systemic.

Another common supplement that can help speed up healing would be cissus(bulksupplements sells relatively inexpensive powder on Amazon). But it's far more hit and miss. There's evidence it helps speeds up bone healing and a long time ago I remember it helped with moderate tendinitis.

I'm not so interested in the speed of healing as much as the quality.

With adult tendons, my understanding is the healing is by replacement not regeneration. So instead of eventually returning to it's pre-injury state, the tendon is healed by the formation of a scar. The problem is that this scar tissue is disorganized, and that results in a weaker tendon than before. The degree of alignment of the scar tissue determines the ultimate mechanical properties of the healed tendon. The more appropriately organized the resulting scar is, the stronger and more functional the tendon should be. I'm interested in ways to encourage and maximize this alignment during the healing process. Some people say massage techniques help with this, others promote different degrees of loading in PT. I wonder if these peptides have an effect on this?

Do you know if these peptides have anything to do with this scar formation? Or if they actually promote regenerative healing of tendons? Just because it hasn't been described in papers over the past few decades doesn't mean it can't happen! You sound knowledgeable about these peptides so thank you for your input.
 
I cannot answer specifics of your question but this seems along the lines of what you're talking about...

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00945.2010



"BPC 157 promoted the ex vivo outgrowth of tendon explants.
To clarify the potential mechanism of BPC 157 on promoting tendon healing, the initial outgrowth of tendon fibroblasts from tendon explants cultured with or without 2 μg/ml BPC 157 was examined and compared. At the 2nd day after implantation, tendon fibroblasts migrating out from the tendon explant were observed in 5 of 10 tendon explants in the BPC 157 group compared with 2 of 10 tendon explants in the control group. At the 5th day, the outgrowth of tendon fibroblasts was observed in all the tendon explants in two groups. This result indicated that BPC 157 could accelerate cell outgrowth from the tendon explant. In addition, the total number of tendon fibroblasts outgrowth from the explants after 7 days of incubation was significantly increased in the BPC 157 group (Fig. 1B). Representative pictures from the two groups are shown in Fig. 1A.
"

"
Healing of the injured tendon involves a lot of complex pathways. It progresses through overlapping stages of inflammation, regeneration, and remodeling. The whole process is slow, and the strength of the healed tendon is inadequate. It heals by scars, which take at least 1 year for maturation. The scar tissue has reduced mechanical strength and renders the tendon susceptible to reinjury (16). This process of regeneration is believed to occur either extrinsically by infiltration of external cells or intrinsically by tendon fibroblast proliferation or both. Migration and proliferation of cells seem to be fundamental for tendon healing.

The beneficial effect of BPC 157 was confirmed by the acceleration of initial outgrowth of tendon fibroblasts from tendon explant. This experiment was designed to mimic the very early stage of tendon regeneration, during which period tendon fibroblasts migrate from either epitendon or endotendon (9, 20). This influence was also confirmed by the transwell filter migration experiments. Tendon cells with 24 h treatment with BPC 157 significantly increases their migratory speed up to 2.3-fold at the concentration of 2 μg/ml.

In our experiments, BPC 157 had no direct effect on promoting the proliferation of an in vitro culture of tendon fibroblasts, which could also be verified by the unaltered expression of PCNA protein after 24 h of treatment with BPC 157. Since cell proliferation is an important process of tendon healing, the result was unexpected. However, we understood that the experimental condition using in vitro culture of tendon fibroblasts could not mimic the real environment of tendon. During the course of in vivo healing, other cells such as leukocytes and stem cells may also interact with each other and contribute to this complicated process. It is possible that the healing-accelerating effect of BPC 157 may act on other cells and exert an indirect effect on promoting the proliferation of tendon fibroblasts. An additional explanation is that the effect of BPC 157 has been shown to be restricted to diseased conditions, and therefore the proliferation of normal tendon fibroblasts is not affected. In a study carried out by Staresinic et al. (29), the proliferation-enhanced activity of BPC 157 was only demonstrated in HNE-damaged cells but not in normal cells. We also demonstrated that BPC 157 could increase the cell survival of tendon fibroblasts under the oxidative stress of H2O2. However, the underlying protective mechanism of BPC 157 needs to be further investigated.
"

"
This is the first report to show that the healing effect of BPC 157 could be mediated by activating a cellular FAK-paxillin signal pathway. However, it is still mysterious how exactly BPC 157 generates the integrin-stimulated signals and consequently activates the downstream FAK. Whether BPC 157 can act as a ligand to bind directly to a membrane receptor will be of great interest to study in the future.
"

Also GHK-cu has been shown to help with eliminating scar tissue however I am unsure if it's limited to only certain tissues or if it applies to tendons as well. I have used it in conjunction with BPC/TB

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073405/

"
In the past, the wound healing, tissue remodeling, angiogenesis-promoting, cell-growth stimulating, anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant actions of GHK were attributed to its unique relationship with copper. Copper is a transitional metal that is vital for all eukaryotic organisms from microbes to humans. Since it can be converted from oxidized Cu(II) to reduced Cu(I) form, it functions as an essential co-factor in a multitude of biochemical reactions involving electron transfer. A dozen enzymes (cuproenzymes) use changes in copper oxidation states to catalyze important biochemical reactions, including cellular respiration (cytochrome c oxidase), antioxidant defense (ceruloplasmin, superoxide dismutase (SOD), detoxification (metallothioneins), blood clotting (blood clotting factors V and VIII), and the connective tissue formation (lysyl peroxidase). Copper is required for iron metabolism, oxygenation, neurotransmission, embryonic development and many other essential biological processes [64]."

https://www.peptidesciences.com/blog/what-is-ghk-cu-and-how

"
Mechanism of Action
GHK-Cu exerts its action on a variety of pathways in the human body due to the peptide sequence and copper’s ability to promote various functions. At the site of tissue injury, GHK-Cu acts as a potent chemoattractant for mast cells, macrophages, amongst others which promote the release of proteins that stimulate the growth and repair of tissue. As stated before, GHK-Cu acts in a dual manner to remove scar tissue from injured locations and replace it with new tissue. Primarily, it acts directly on fibroblasts by increasing production of mRNA and protein for collagen, elastin, proteoglycans, glycosaminoglycans, and decorin; all of which are critical components in tissue repair and maintenance. Further, it acts to stimulate the production of metalloproteases and protease inhibitors which function to remove damaged tissue proteins. It also reduced the secretion of TGF-beta from fibroblasts during this process as TGF-beta acts to induce scar formation."
 
A lot of the time people don't allow enough time for recovery. I was doing all sorts of rehab for my achilles and when I felt like I was out of the danger zone I did too much too soon and ended up back at square one. It takes a bit of discipline to stop the activity that you love doing for a few months rather than a few weeks.
 
I got golfers elbow, its tendon related also i think. I have it since may of last year so this shit takes long time to heal. Getting abit better now but no idea might go back to shit when i try to do something that aggrevates it. Cant do any pullups, deadlifts, carries etc
 
I got golfers elbow, its tendon related also i think. I have it since may of last year so this shit takes long time to heal. Getting abit better now but no idea might go back to shit when i try to do something that aggrevates it. Cant do any pullups, deadlifts, carries etc
I’ve had good success using the pin firing method mark rippetoe came up with. It sounds so stupid but has honestly worked on two occasions for me.
 
I got golfers elbow, its tendon related also i think. I have it since may of last year so this shit takes long time to heal. Getting abit better now but no idea might go back to shit when i try to do something that aggrevates it. Cant do any pullups, deadlifts, carries etc

Get BPC157. I had golfers elbow for 9 months. It was miserable. You'll notice an improvement within a few days and will be mostly good after 2-3 weeks. Pinning is best but supposedly even newer pills can work.
 
This thread is awesome.

I recently came up with patellar tendonitis. My knee was killing me.

Have been doing strength exercises, heat, and patellar tendonitis massage. All have been very helpfully but still going to take time from the info I have been looking up on patellar tendonitis. It takes awhile to heal.

Anybody have additional information that might speed up recovery time.

Thank you!
 
This thread is awesome.

I recently came up with patellar tendonitis. My knee was killing me.

Have been doing strength exercises, heat, and patellar tendonitis massage. All have been very helpfully but still going to take time from the info I have been looking up on patellar tendonitis. It takes awhile to heal.

Anybody have additional information that might speed up recovery time.

Thank you!

Read above about BPC157.
 
Been doing muscle strengthening exercises for my torn/tear meniscus. Seems to be helping.
I got a long way to go.
 
I suffered from patellar then quad tendinopathy for over 3 years after competing in oly lifting for a few years.
Although I still suffer from occasional flares up, my condition has slowly improved over the last year.
I tried complete rest, physio, BPC 157, nitro patches and overcoming iso, but it didn't seem to help much (hard to say though). Regarding overcoming iso: I believe they work for patellar tendons but aggravate quad tendons.

I think these are what worked for me:
- Heavy reverse step-ups (like Poliquin step-ups but flat): 5 sets of 5 over 100kg twice a week, 20cm height (I'm still doing these as prehab actually and keep increasing the weight)
- PRP injections (super painful, but I really felt a difference)
- Red light therapy (coincided with improvement, maybe a coincidence though)
- Prolotherapy (not sure about it but it might have helped)

Look up Jake Tuura about this.
 
Have no doctor or medical explanation to a recovery. Last year doing some cleans, missed a catch with the bar landing high on fingers and bent hand back to wrist. Something loud popped inside of palm. Thought wrist was broke. Couple months slowly stretching it all day, finally able to get some range of motion back. Had to be 4+ months before it didn't hurt to catch a bar over 1 plate again.
Vagisil should clear that right up. I hate those injuries but we all get them. The torn calf really knocked me out. Still not right.
 
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