Technical aspects of Gnp

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by GalegoREB, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. GalegoREB

    GalegoREB He Who Talks Loud, Saying Nothing

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    Most of time in this forum I see being discussed the intricacies of submissions, guard passing, guard retention etc. However I rarely see threads about the nuances of ground and pound.
    What is your opinion about gnp? Do you believe is a more effective way to finish your opponent than submissions? What skills are needed to make a fighter have good gnp?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  2. Mike Piekarski

    Mike Piekarski Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    Good posture. From the guard if you get broken down you will have very weak gnp. Keep good posture and you are free to hit. My goal when in someone's guard is to keep posture and hit until they open up so I can pass.

    The ability to damage someone without losing position. In straight grappling generally when you are being offensive on top you want no space for them to escape but if you do that with gnp you will have no space to strike. I generally like top control positions, like the crucifix, so I can make space to hit and they are still relatively stuck.

    Don't think of it as submissions OR gnp, use both to accomplish your goal to get the finish. In jiu jitsu you have to use fancy tricks to get your opponent to react to get the submission, with gnp you just punch them in the face until they react to get the submission.
     
  3. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    There's a lot of hand fighting that goes on during GNP. A smart grappler is going to try and take control of your hands and arms to minimize damage and to set up sweeps/subs. A smart striker is going to wrap up your arms hold on for dear life until the ref stands you up.

    Being able to to hand fight and throw effective strikes seems to be an understated part of ground and pound.
     
  4. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    A balance of control (your opponents hips) and space (posture).

    Thing is there are many different types of GNP. You also have to think about risk vs reward. Great places to GnP are in someone's full guard or top half guard..... But both those places are dangerous because of sweeps and subs.

    Mount and side control are also great places to GnP but it's also harder to hold your opponent down will striking.

    I would say the very best place to GnP is from back mount. It always goes falls back to taking the back. Shoulda listened to Rickson all those years ago.
     
  5. sub_thug

    sub_thug Silver Belt

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    Variety goes a long way when working from certain positions, especially inside the guard. There is a time and place to stay low, throw some weaker punches, avoid submissions and sweeps, and get your hand fighting done. There is a time and place to posture up, throw massive shots, and work to pass. I find a lot of guys spend way too much of their time trying to do one thing, only to have a guard player make the adjustments they need to completely nullify the top guy's game. It's like in BJJ when you're married to one particular submission. When that's all you're going for, it'll never happen.
     
  6. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    And if the GnP ends up being particularly effective and you rock your foe you just stick with the GnP for the finish?
     
  7. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    You have to use your grappling and striking in combination to be effective, e.g strike to make passing the guard easier, or threaten the guard pass to set up strikes etc.

    Each position has its own intricacies in terms of posture and space. Things such as pinning, tie ups and trapping become much more useful when strikes are added.
     
  8. Mike Piekarski

    Mike Piekarski Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    If I can get the finish without passing I will, but most often I have a much higher chance of finishing from a dominant position.

    On a side note if I'm standing over my opponent I feel I can land pretty devastating strikes but then my opponent has a higher chance of getting back up. Higher risk/higher reward.

    I think technical gnp is very under utilized
     
  9. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    If I was doing a paper on GnP I would study Randy/Hughes, Fedor, Tito, Bones, and obviously Coleman.

    -Randy & Hughes I remember being extremely good at maintaining dominant position while still doing damage. Randy from half guard (Mike Goldbergs favorite line) and Hughes would pass and pound on dudes from side control or crucifix.

    -Fedor pioneered that style of the GnP from standing position. It helped him stay out of guard even though he would dive right in when he felt like it. He would also go to the body nicely from there.

    -Tito really was one of the 1st to prefer to stay in guard. He would land left and right elbows from here and was actually really good at slipping punches in past the opponents blocks.

    -Bones I added bc hes creative as hell and I love the way hel hand fight and launch the elbow while that is happening. His arms are also so damn long he can punch and stay out of danger.

    -And Coleman is obviously the king/pioneer. He showed what a big, aggressive, wrestler could do if he wanted to simply beat the shit out of someone. He made it very VERY uncomfortable for the guy on bottom. The Don Frye fight in PRIDE looked extremely miserable for Frye.
     
  10. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    I just posted about this. It seems it would be very effective in the cage and not much in the ring (does anyone use a ring anymore?). Makes sense what u r saying. If u have the guy under u hurt do u prefer to be more aggressive with passing/sub hunting or turning up the GnP?
     
  11. Mike Piekarski

    Mike Piekarski Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    Personal preference I hunt passing and subs just because I'm more confident in my ability to finish with subs. In the gym you aren't TKOing training partners but you submit them all the time so I know if I get the submission I can win.
     
  12. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    Also in mount, posting on the opponent's face can be huge. You can either turn their face away so they cant see your strikes coming, or turn it so that when they clear your post they turn into a punch. Also how they clear your post can also give you other offensive options such as submissions, transitions or striking opportunities.
     
  13. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    IMO, I'd say posture is primary important. Grip fighting is also important. But IMO, more than anything, I'd say guard passing should be a priority. If I were an MMA fighter, I wouldn't want to throw too many punches in the closed guard and risk getting an arm taken, or getting a leg on my shoulder.
     
  14. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    It can take a lot of energy to finish a stubborn opponent with strikes. Many a grappler have blown their wad and not finished the fight because they got over ambitious with trying to finish the fight.
     
  15. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    Great points by both Mike Piekarski and Doc Taco.
     
  16. GalegoREB

    GalegoREB He Who Talks Loud, Saying Nothing

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    A lot of good posts so far. I really liked Cormier gnp against Hendo, even though he didn't finished with strikes, he exhibited a lot of the key points mentioned in this thread.
     
  17. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    GNP is truly an art unto itself, and the various GNP techniques are completely variable relative to what position you're in.
     
  18. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    Technical
    Ground 'n' Pound

    Pick one.
     
  19. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    My amateur coach gave me probably the best advice that I have gotten the most mileage out of in MMA in general:

    When they moon, you sun.

    If you can keep their hips parallel to the ground, they have absolutely nothing to threaten you with.
     
  20. Brian McLaughlin

    Brian McLaughlin Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    To me ground and pound is the great equalizer. There are guy who can mop me up with jiu-jitsu, but if I can punch them on the ground I feel like I'm in the driver's seat.

    The extra element of ground and pound is the threat of the standup. I see lots of guys talking about upright posture, which works great if the person has accepted the guard or if they are trying to hold you tight and stifle you. When I would train with guys like Charlie Brenneman they would wait for me to posture then push me away and EXPLODE to their feet. Those guys you have to crowd their hips and control the inside of their arms or wrists at all times.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9YqeW4j4PM

    Watch how Hordecki would look to kick away and stand when Schultz postured high, but once he got tight wrist control he could manipulate and rain down heavy leather
     

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