Switched From Touch-and-Go to Dead Stop DLs - New Back Pain Issue

[blackhat]

I just switched to dead stop deadlifts (and 3 second paused deadlifts) because I want to increase my power off the floor and really strengthen my lower back. These are way harder than touch-and-go and my back can definitely feel the difference..

My problem is that once I get around failure (last couple of reps) I start to get a "tingling" feeling in my lower back. I think maybe my form is breaking down a bit by that point.. maybe my core isn't as tight?

I'm doing about 50% less volume, 15-20% less weight than my usual touch-and-go workout.

So far I've just been pulling through the tingling pain, but ideally I'd like to figure it out before my next DL session (Tuesday).

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Cheers

 

[ryun253]

You shouldn't by be going anywhere near failure on deadlifts.

 

[JimRussel]

You shouldn't by be going anywhere near failure on deadlifts.

Lol wtf.

Why not?

 

[ryun253]

Lol wtf.

Why not?

Do you have a form video?

 

[JimRussel]

Do you have a form video?

How is that relevant to me asking you to justify your unintelligent, incorrect statement?

 

[magick]

How much are you pulling?

I'd guess that your form is breaking down and you're rounding the lower back near the end since you're not used to doing dead stop deadlifts.

 

[ryun253]

How is that relevant to me asking you to justify your unintelligent, incorrect statement?

Form break down is pretty obvious isn't it?

Edit. Oops thought you were the TS. Sorry

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

How is that relevant to me asking you to justify your unintelligent, incorrect statement?

Are there scenarios where that statement wouldn't be incorrect or is it simply universally incorrect in saying that you shouldn't be training deadlifts to failure?

 

[blackhat]

You shouldn't by be going anywhere near failure on deadlifts.

blasphemy!

Do you have a form video?

ya, but unfortunately not for dead stop or paused DLs. I'll make a form check video for both on Tuesdays session.

Form break down is pretty obvious isn't it?

could be. it took me a while to get my touch and go form locked in and even then I was always weak off the floor. my dead stop form probably needs work, not sure if that's causing the pain though.

How much are you pulling?

I'd guess that your form is breaking down and you're rounding the lower back near the end since you're not used to doing dead stop deadlifts.

My heaviest dead stop set that session was around 320 x 5 or 6 reps @170lbs.. I think I could have grinded to 8 but didn't want to push past the pain too much since it's new and I'm not sure wtf it is. I also did probably like 280 x 5 with a 3 second pause 2 inches off the floor, plus a lot of other lower sets.

I always try to keep a neutral lower back. I don't extend and curve my lower back past neutral like some guys do. I find it wayyyy easier to pull off the ground when my hips are high but I feel it might put my lower back in a compromised position. In this session I was lowering my hips a bit and really focusing on keeping my back straight.

 

[rocketskates]

I love going to failure on deads. If on the last rep my form suffers I just bail on the rep. No biggie.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

Could be APT. I'd do some hip flexor stretches, glute activation, and lat activation to help hold you in good position.

You might try; reclining hero pose for 2 minutes, then hold a hip thrust at the very top for a minute, and a hand full of tuck front levers with locked out arms and a flat low back.

 

[LatFlare]

Tingling usually means somethings happening to a nerve.

 

[Badger67]

Are you resetting after each lift or just going back to the dead position after the initial lift then lifting? Always reset. And yes, tingling is generally nerve. Bring us vidya.

 

[blackhat]

I think doing a full reset (+ cocking the hips) might be part of the problem. My dead stop form isn't in my muscle memory yet so it kinda feels like I'm doing something different every rep. I'm playing around with high hips vs lower hips, leaning forward a bit, leaning back, rounding my upper back slightly, arching shoulders back etc.

From now on I'm going to do my usual touch-and-go DL session, but all my back down sets after I max out will be dead stop + paused DLs. That way I can slowly get used to them rather than trying to completely switch up my workout.

Here's some videos of touch-and-go form, they're about a year old though..





That's when I was 15lbs heavier and eating 4500+ calories per day.

Recent dead stop form:





So far dead stop just feels riskier and less intense I think I need a lot more practice before I start enjoying it.

 

[Badger67]

In your dead stop video 1, your hips rise on your reset by your 4th rep, making you more horizontal which increases sheering forces on the spinal column. Core needs to be very strong to pull from that angle.
In your second deadlift stop video, despite resetting, there is some lumbar rounding, due to you being more horizontal and trying to get your hips lower simultaneously. These are probably why it feels riskier.

In your year ago videos, you are more vertical, and a little less rounding.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

You need more hip hinge action. If you can pull yourself into a more pure hip flexed position everything else will fall into place. Everything that's wrong with your form comes from compensating for that limitation.

You could try grabbing a light weight and work on your position from the top down. Start in the top of the deadlift and use your hip flexors to pull you down as much as possible before you bend at the knees.

 

[selfcritical]

Also in your older videos you had a bunch of extra spinal extension at the top for basically no reason. Looks like you've pretty much eliminated the "levering back" nonsense

 

[blackhat]

Also in your older videos you had a bunch of extra spinal extension at the top for basically no reason. Looks like you've pretty much eliminated the "levering back" nonsense

I actually love doing that haha. I find for some reason it helps me to adrenaline dump on the lift. I only do it on high rep sets though.

Is there any major downside to doing it?

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

I actually love doing that haha. I find for some reason it helps me to adrenaline dump on the lift. I only do it on high rep sets though.

Is there any major downside to doing it?

The problem is that when you do that your not getting into a true lockout. If you watch really good guys do speed work you'll see they rip right into that top position. The just hit it. The glutes push the hips into the bar and the lats pull the bar into the hips. You can't really get more locked out than that, and it's supper fucking gratifying when you snap into that position properly.

 

[selfcritical]

un-needed lumbar movement, extra ROM that isn't necessary to lock out the bar, may make it harder to get rigid in the spine.