Suburra (2015)

[Guestx]

Upon the recommendation of @FierceRedBelt I watched this film tonight. Apparently it later spawned a TV show of the same name, but this thread is about the movie, not the show.

It's an interesting film. The premise:

Criminal rivalries and endemic corruption are exposed when plans are made to turn a seaside town into a gambling paradise.

It features some great cinematography, excellent use of music, really good performances, an interesting view of Italian mob life, and it has a feeling of realism and authenticity that most movies do not possess.

However, I did feel like the storyline was slow to come together. The central thread tying everything together is this land deal and it was well past the halfway mark before I really understood what that was all about. It's just kind of hinted at early in the film with little bits of dialogue here and in that first half of the movie I wasn't quite sure what the film was aiming at in terms of plot.

Eventually everything did come together but it takes a lot of time and a lot of patience on the viewer's part, so that's something to be aware of before you get into the film.

Overall though, I did enjoy it and would recommend it for anyone who likes crime stories.

Anyone else seen it?

 

[Guestx]

@FierceRedBelt here are a few specific talking points I wanted to hit:

1. There were a few scenes that really stood out to me for how visceral they felt, one being the shootout in the supermarket--can you imagine some shit like that actually going down and being in the middle of it?--and the other is the scene where Number 8's girl goes and offs those gypsies in the spa.

2. Speaking of Number 8, at first I really didn't like his character but he grew on me and actually become one of my favorite characters. He was willing to stand his ground even against Samurai and didn't give up his girl like the sniveling bearded guy with the villa. When Samurai killed him I thought that was shitty, but I was glad his girl was able to escape.

3. And speaking of his girl, I have to say, that bitch was loyal to a fault. Would that we all had a girl like that. Even when he gave her shit she stuck around for him and remained loyal even after he was put in the grave, avenging his death, which I thought was a pretty satisfying end to the story.

4. Speaking of bitches, I had to LOL a bit at the early scene with the dead hooker, because I was like, "So what clever method will they use to get her out of this hotel?" Apparently that method was to simply pick her ass up and walk right out the door with her in full view of everybody. No stuffing her in a suitcase or any shit like that, let's just carry this bitch right out in plain sight.

5. There were a couple of things I didn't understand. One was the bit near the end with the Prime Minister resigning. The movie's like, "Well, the bill was passed so now the Prime Minister is resigning!" That seemed random and to come out of nowhere. What did the bill have to do with the PM staying in office?

6. The other thing I didn't really get was the plotline about the Pope stepping down. It was introduced early in the story, and then just disappears until it pops back up very briefly, and then is never spoken of again. The only thing I can think is that the Pope learned of the deep corruption within the Vatican, as evidenced by the scene with Samurai goes to meet with the Vatican official, but it's not explained clearly at all. If it had no meaning and was only thrown in because it happened in real-life then that seems like a poor decision, narratively.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Yeh, there was a thread on this already when first came out. Its a good movie.

But its much different from Suburra the series, yet two of the main characters are the same actors.

 

[Guestx]

But its much different from Suburra the series, yet two of the main characters are the same actors.

That's interesting because, just from the brief reading that I did, I got the impression that the series basically told the same story but expanded across an entire season of TV. Guess not, though.

Like I said, I enjoyed the movie, but it's not really the kind of film that I watch and then say "I want more of that!" so the idea of a series is not that interesting to me.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

They use this song a lot

 

[MadSquabbles500]

That's interesting because, just from the brief reading that I did, I got the impression that the series basically told the same story but expanded across an entire season of TV. Guess not, though.

Like I said, I enjoyed the movie, but it's not really the kind of film that I watch and then say "I want more of that!" so the idea of a series is not that interesting to me.

The series is the prequel, but the way the characters act, and the overall feel is a departure from the movie

Spoiler

in the series, when #8 and the gypsy kid first meet, they become friends and business partners. In the movie its like they dont know each other, and could not care less

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Upon the recommendation of @FierceRedBelt I watched this film tonight. Apparently it later spawned a TV show of the same name, but this thread is about the movie, not the show.

It's an interesting film. The premise:



It features some great cinematography, excellent use of music, really good performances, an interesting view of Italian mob life, and it has a feeling of realism and authenticity that most movies do not possess.

However, I did feel like the storyline was slow to come together. The central thread tying everything together is this land deal and it was well past the halfway mark before I really understood what that was all about. It's just kind of hinted at early in the film with little bits of dialogue here and in that first half of the movie I wasn't quite sure what the film was aiming at in terms of plot.

Eventually everything did come together but it takes a lot of time and a lot of patience on the viewer's part, so that's something to be aware of before you get into the film.

Overall though, I did enjoy it and would recommend it for anyone who likes crime stories.

Anyone else seen it?

I really don't remember how I felt about the early pace of the movie but I do remember wondering how the hell it was all going to tie together from the first half hour or so. I think the movie could be described as a final gasp for air before death; the first half or so was frantic and all over the place while still dragging a little and then everything just slowly fell apart in slow motion until there was nothing left.

@FierceRedBelt here are a few specific talking points I wanted to hit:

1. There were a few scenes that really stood out to me for how visceral they felt, one being the shootout in the supermarket--can you imagine some shit like that actually going down and being in the middle of it?--and the other is the scene where Number 8's girl goes and offs those gypsies in the spa.

2. Speaking of Number 8, at first I really didn't like his character but he grew on me and actually become one of my favorite characters. He was willing to stand his ground even against Samurai and didn't give up his girl like the sniveling bearded guy with the villa. When Samurai killed him I thought that was shitty, but I was glad his girl was able to escape.

3. And speaking of his girl, I have to say, that bitch was loyal to a fault. Would that we all had a girl like that. Even when he gave her shit she stuck around for him and remained loyal even after he was put in the grave, avenging his death, which I thought was a pretty satisfying end to the story.

4. Speaking of bitches, I had to LOL a bit at the early scene with the dead hooker, because I was like, "So what clever method will they use to get her out of this hotel?" Apparently that method was to simply pick her ass up and walk right out the door with her in full view of everybody. No stuffing her in a suitcase or any shit like that, let's just carry this bitch right out in plain sight.

5. There were a couple of things I didn't understand. One was the bit near the end with the Prime Minister resigning. The movie's like, "Well, the bill was passed so now the Prime Minister is resigning!" That seemed random and to come out of nowhere. What did the bill have to do with the PM staying in office?

6. The other thing I didn't really get was the plotline about the Pope stepping down. It was introduced early in the story, and then just disappears until it pops back up very briefly, and then is never spoken of again. The only thing I can think is that the Pope learned of the deep corruption within the Vatican, as evidenced by the scene with Samurai goes to meet with the Vatican official, but it's not explained clearly at all. If it had no meaning and was only thrown in because it happened in real-life then that seems like a poor decision, narratively.

1.) The movie felt very modern wild westernish if that makes any sense; but not in a disgusting way like City of God was. The mall scene was really well done I was impressed the action, acting, and the photography. It's hard to glamorize murderous criminals but this movie did a fairly passable job in doing so.

I'd imagine in that situation I'd just freeze up but I'm not much of a tough guy.

2.) I ended up liking him too and his Greta Scrano was endearing even as a drug addict. But with that said the sniveling rat who ended up killing the leader of the gypsies was a very interesting character because he did end up having to face his own cowardice even after doing everything and giving up everything to avoid it. He threw away his father, that whore he was friends with, his home, his money and pride to avoid conflict but still couldn't avoid it.

3.) Yes, I think Greta did really well with that role and she was written in a really romantic way. Can a woman really be that loyal? I think so especially if the man is willing to defend her and put her in line like 'Number 8' did. I hope it's a two way street like this.

4.) Full on wild west type of stuff and everyone can be bought in this world. The Malgradi story arc was also pretty good because he was just starting to spin out of control and then went right off the rails. Just the story of a limited man overwhelmed.

5.) I don't remember exactly but I think it's implied he was highly involved in corruption that would be punishable once that bill was in place.

6.) These are good questions. I tend to focus on characters and their development. I'll have to give it a rewatch next week.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Have you seen this @Bacco? If so thoughts about the movie and how it portrays life in Rome?

 

[Bacco]

Have you seen this @Bacco? If so thoughts about the movie and how it portrays life in Rome?

Both movie and tv series are'nt bad, but is not Gomorra (tv series) either

Both because imho Gomorra got superior production and because it's much much more easier to translate as tv series the clashes of camorra clans, wich are mostly about alliances, fragile equilibrium of powers, clan wars and control of the territory/best squares
If you think about it it's a "simple" subject because is a more straightforward scenario AND it focus on these few elements leaving mostly out a lot of other possible perspectives (political, police, normal citiziens)
Essentially for how story is told you simply see high crime dynamics with everything else as a momentary "interference" in most cases
The Gomorra movie was very different from the tv series under that pov

Rome it's a waaaaaay more complex scenario... essentially it's about multiple elements (low crime, high crime, politic, society etc) that got progressively corrupted and created a chaotic equilibrium somewhere in the middle with the state playing blind king, because ignore > fix
Imagine a gigantic crash with many cars involved... is hard figure out the clear dynamic of it, often it's hard even figure out wich piece belong to wich car. It's a gigantic fuck up

Not easy to fully understand by italians either (i don't live in Rome), i guess much more for foreigners

Overall i think Suburra is good (very good for our production standards), but at same time feel to me like "Gomorra is doing fuckton of moneys, let's do Gomorra in Rome!"

Of Rome i liked Romanzo Criminale (tv series version) wich tell the story of Rome's underworld most powerful gang in the 70s, i remember it as well done

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Both movie and tv series are'nt bad, but is not Gomorra (tv series) either

Both because imho Gomorra got superior production and because it's much much more easier to translate as tv series the clashes of camorra clans, wich are mostly about alliances, fragile equilibrium of powers, clan wars and control of the territory/best squares
If you think about it it's a "simple" subject because is a more straightforward scenario AND it focus on these few elements leaving mostly out a lot of other possible perspectives (political, police, normal citiziens)
Essentially for how story is told you simply see high crime dynamics with everything else as a momentary "interference" in most cases
The Gomorra movie was very different from the tv series under that pov

Rome it's a waaaaaay more complex scenario... essentially it's about multiple elements (low crime, high crime, politic, society etc) that got progressively corrupted and created a chaotic equilibrium somewhere in the middle with the state playing blind king, because ignore > fix
Imagine a gigantic crash with many cars involved... is hard figure out the clear dynamic of it, often it's hard even figure out wich piece belong to wich car. It's a gigantic fuck up

Not easy to fully understand by italians either (i don't live in Rome), i guess much more for foreigners

Overall i think Suburra is good (very good for our production standards), but at same time feel to me like "Gomorra is doing fuckton of moneys, let's do Gomorra in Rome!"

Of Rome i liked Romanzo Criminale (tv series version) wich tell the story of Rome's underworld most powerful gang in the 70s, i remember it as well done

I'll have to check out Romanzo Criminale.

I've seen both Suburra and Gomorra films and Suburra was superior in my opinion. I think I've read that the production team from the movie Suburra actually worked on the televison show Gomorra. Gomorra was gritty in the disgusting sense that I didn't find entertaining but Suburra also had a very music videoish feel to it.

I think your point of having a very mid-level criminal focus probably makes the movie better and less confusing. I think your gigantic wreck analogy works very well for the Suburra film; everything is just spinning out of control and no one really makes it out safely.

Are you on the Adriatic coast?

 

[Bacco]

1-I'll have to check out Romanzo Criminale.

2- I've seen both Suburra and Gomorra films and Suburra was superior in my opinion.
I think I've read that the production team from the movie Suburra actually worked on the televison show Gomorra. Gomorra was gritty in the disgusting sense that I didn't find entertaining but Suburra also had a very music videoish feel to it.

3- I think your point of having a very mid-level criminal focus probably makes the movie better and less confusing. I think your gigantic wreck analogy works very well for the Suburra film; everything is just spinning out of control and no one really makes it out safely.

4- Are you on the Adriatic coast?

1- Romanzo Criminale Serises/Movie were both pretty good, it kinda starded this kind of modern productions in Italy
TV series was superior to movie imho

2- Keep in mind Gomorra movie got absolutely a different purpose, it's kinda like a documentary the focus is on stay as real as possible in a dry way, seem like it give no fucks to make it entertaining for the watcher (and in fact many found it kinda boring)

Gomorra tv series is much more refined and "smart" under that point of view, is essentially The Wire in Naples, it push more on characters and narrative, with a rythm made to be "catchy"
I don't know if i used the right words
Suburra both movie and tv series mimic Gomorra (starting from a purposely assonance choice of name) essentially because it did good $$$ so they found a way to split/replicate the success

Btw if i understood what you liked in Sub, i think you will find some of it it RC (tv series) too, the 70s vibe give it an unique touch... even if i think is possible a lot of the italian 70s crime movie vibe will be a bit missed by a non-italian watcher
Also keep in mind in advance RC movie(2005) and TV series(2008) are older and less smart(?), like feel definitely less international level productions, i think one can say the much more modern/international style of Gomorra kinda ruin RC for somebody that see it today... but back then felt like a cool production compared to others italian tv series

But still it got it's own style if you like it

3- yeah that's well presented

4- no sea sadly
I'm from the south but grown and live in Milan (north)

 

[Guestx]

I really don't remember how I felt about the early pace of the movie but I do remember wondering how the hell it was all going to tie together from the first half hour or so. I think the movie could be described as a final gasp for air before death; the first half or so was frantic and all over the place while still dragging a little and then everything just slowly fell apart in slow motion until there was nothing left.

I think that's a solid description of how the movie comes together.

It's hard to glamorize murderous criminals but this movie did a fairly passable job in doing so.

Scarface is a good example of another movie that I think does an effective job of glamorizing it's criminal protagonist.

But with that said the sniveling rat who ended up killing the leader of the gypsies was a very interesting character because he did end up having to face his own cowardice even after doing everything and giving up everything to avoid it. He threw away his father, that whore he was friends with, his home, his money and pride to avoid conflict but still couldn't avoid it.

When he sold out his girl, that was really shitty. I get that these mob guys scared the hell out of him, but damn . . . just damn. That was the moment when my sympathy for him really took a hit.

I did think it was satisfying when he finally beat the shit out of the gypsy guy though. That guy was such an asshole.

3.) Yes, I think Greta did really well with that role and she was written in a really romantic way. Can a woman really be that loyal? I think so especially if the man is willing to defend her and put her in line like 'Number 8' did. I hope it's a two way street like this.

I think there are all kinds of people on earth, including a few women who have the capacity to be loyal like that. And I have to say, loyalty to that degree covers up a lot of other flaws. If I knew a girl had my back no matter what, I'm sure I could overlook a lot of other things.