Submission attempts that have a low success ratio:

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by dissolved, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. dissolved

    dissolved Steel Belt

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    Yes, you'll all be able to give examples of when these worked, but more often than not, they expend a lot of energy which doesn't usually equate with a tapping opponent. I'd list the top 2 as:

    #2. The GUILLOTINE CHOKE

    #1. The KIMURA

    Agreement? Disagreement? Which subs have a poor success ratio in your minds!
     
  2. Angler

    Angler Banned Banned

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    I'd agree with the guillotine but not the kimura as the guillotine uses primarily one arm with the other arm securing, while the kimura is a 2-arm against 1 arm attack that expends a lot less energy. Plus the kimura can be used from standing or bottom position to work a takedown/sweep while a failed guillotine attempt almost always leaves you on the bottom position.
     
  3. Doug Funny

    Doug Funny Guest

    A squeezing your legs while trying to finish a triangle


    If your opponent escapes your legs are effin dead.
     
  4. dissolved

    dissolved Steel Belt

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    I think the Kimura attempt is by far the one that achieves the fewest taps. But, I will agree that it CAN be used to transition a position. That said, I've seen way too many attempts that expend energy and don't produce any results. I think it's the worst one by quite a bit. The success ratio is very low IMO.
     
  5. dissolved

    dissolved Steel Belt

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    I got strong legs...But the way I look at it, is if a triangle is applied later in a round - or in later rounds, the fighting caught in the attempt is too tired to defend it properly (unless he really know his BJJ) and usually falls deeper into the sub my virute of exhaustion. I've seen many (I've been subbed by triangles) more taps/ref. stoppages due to the triangle then proabably any other - other then the rear-naked choke.

    BTW Doug Funny, how come you ain't in the OT? On my end I like MMA enough that I still got to have some serious conversation now and again. That's my story anyway.
     
  6. Angler

    Angler Banned Banned

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    Omoplata is by far the lowest percentage finishing technique in MMA from traditional BJJ, except it doesn't expend that much energy and is another move that can transition to a more dominant position. Kimura's if applied properly is not that strenuous and can be devastating to the shoulder. Unless your opponent is a LOT stronger than you, you will not burn your arms out from a kimura attempt. Definitely not close to a failed guillotine attempt.
     
  7. Oeshon

    Oeshon ช่างมันเถอะ

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    Omoplata has to be the worst
     
  8. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Straba

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    True but alot of guillotine atempts also happen when someone knows there going to be taken down anyway so there not really losing position.
     
  9. Nickynoneck

    Nickynoneck Purple Belt

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    guilloyine is more of a counter sub as getting put in a take down and seeingt he neck .

    The kimura is a sub that may not work all the time but by putting it on it makes your oponent aware he needs to get out of it so it can used to get the him to move around and create ways to sweep from guard and transition to another move .

    either two are succesful its just how you look at it .

    How many times have someone won a fight by using either two but tranisition cleanly from one move to another .
     
  10. Doug Funny

    Doug Funny Guest

    Omoplata or Guillotine
     
  11. dissolved

    dissolved Steel Belt

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    Do you think the omoplatta has a lower ratio then the gogoplatta? And btw the way, we're talking about attempts/success in sinking in the sub to a finish. I'd say the omoplatta is attempted more than the gogoplatta, but far less than the Kimura or Guillotine choke - would you not agree?

    And also, I agree that the Guillotine choke expends the most amount of energy - because the fighter is fighting his own body weight as well as his opponent's. A kimura is most times applied from the top and the attempt can be held for an extended period of time while trying to sink it without gassing. - see GSP vs Kos.
     
  12. Nickynoneck

    Nickynoneck Purple Belt

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    Its very good to get out of gaurd with and transition and take someones back or transition to a leg lock if you swing around good enough.
     
  13. Angler

    Angler Banned Banned

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    True to an extent but a lot of guillotines also come from a conscious decision made between sprawling or securing the guillotine and pulling guard on it.
     
  14. Jin-Roh

    Jin-Roh Black Belt

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    I've seen a failed guillotine in every other fight. I'd say that's the most commonly used failed submission.
     
  15. Nickynoneck

    Nickynoneck Purple Belt

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    The succes rate may be low but its not low enough to stop using those two moves cuz when put on the right way there gonna tap there bread and butter subs .
     
  16. Angler

    Angler Banned Banned

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    The gogo is a different story as a lot of fighter's don't even have the flexibility/quickness to attempt one properly against an able opponent. Also a failed gogo many times turns into an omoplata, which is almost always only successful enough to create a sweep, if that.

    I disagree, the omoplata IMO is attempted much less than the kimura and especially the guillotine but still the kimura and guillotine has a higher number of successful attempts.
     
  17. noob900

    noob900 Brown Belt

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    Then you're doing it wrong..
     
  18. dissolved

    dissolved Steel Belt

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    It's amazing how often the attempt is made for a sub though - not just to counter. I'd say maybe 1 out of 20 actually end the fight. And for the 19 that don't the fighter who tried the attempt is wasted - at least for the rest of the match. I've also noticed that most top fighters don't even attempt it unless the KNOW the opponent can't get an arm in in time, and/or, the opponent is literally gassed and just asking for his neck to be taken.
     
  19. Nickynoneck

    Nickynoneck Purple Belt

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    i AGREE the omoplata is more of a positioning thing then going for a sub if you could go for it would you not ?? of course you would .
     
  20. Angler

    Angler Banned Banned

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    Yup I would, definitely an effective counter/sweep move.
     

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