Submission attempts that have a low success ratio:

[Nickynoneck]

It's amazing how often the attempt is made for a sub though - not just to counter. I'd say maybe 1 out of 20 actually end the fight. And for the 19 that don't the fighter who tried the attempt is wasted - at least for the rest of the match. I've also noticed that most top fighters don't even attempt it unless the KNOW the opponent can't get an arm in in time, and/or, the opponent is literally gassed and just asking for his neck to be taken.

def you see alot of newer fighter doing more then top fighters and its out of experience , nothing sucks more then wrenching on one and then not getting it and having all that elatic acid build up in your arm.

 

[noob900]

i AGREE the omoplata is more of a positioning thing then going for a sub if you could go for it would you not ?? of course you would .

I don't think I've seen an omoplata end in someone tapping. Royce tapped Akebono with it but the less said about that, the better. I agree, it makes a nice sweep if nothing else.

 

[Nickynoneck]

Yup I would, definitely an effective counter/sweep move.

look how much you get out of it A sweep, counter and positing tool its a great move .

same as the kimura .

 

[Angler]

def you see alot of newer fighter doing more then top fighters and its out of experience , nothing sucks more then wrenching on one and then not getting it and having all that elatic acid build up in your arm.

Definitely, that's why you see a lot of fighters inexperience in BJJ still struggling to wrench the neck after their opponent has passed to side control, thinking they are doing more than deadening their own arm.

 

[Nickynoneck]

I don't think I've seen an omoplata end in someone tapping. Royce tapped Akebono with it but the less said about that, the better. I agree, it makes a nice sweep if nothing else.

the nog/henderson fight is a perfect example of the omoplata nog tryed it what like 5 times in the fight , it got nog out of being in guard but did not get the sub

 

[Angler]

look how much you get out of it A sweep, counter and positing tool its a great move .

same as the kimura .

Agreed, but I think this thread is about finishing as opposed to energy expended.

 

[Nickynoneck]

Ok guys i gotta go to work i'll post later bye

 

[dissolved]

The gogo is a different story as a lot of fighter's don't even have the flexibility/quickness to attempt one properly against an able opponent. Also a failed gogo many times turns into an omoplata, which is almost always only successful enough to create a sweep, if that.

I disagree, the omoplata IMO is attempted much less than the kimura and especially the guillotine but still the kimura and guillotine has a higher number of successful attempts.

You must have misread what I wrote (and you'll see that I didn't edit). I said that the omoplatta isn't as attempted as much as the Kimura or the guillotine choke. And I honestly don't think for the number of attempts, the kimura or guillotine is more succesful. Too the omoplatta can also transition to an arm bar fairly easily.

 

[gracie_barra**]

probably guilotine or gogo

 

[dissolved]

I don't think I've seen an omoplata end in someone tapping. Royce tapped Akebono with it but the less said about that, the better. I agree, it makes a nice sweep if nothing else.

I tend to agree that very few fights end with an omoplatta - so maybe Angler is right to an extent. BUT, I think it's rare that a fighter intends to sink an omoplatta, rather it's like a transition move almost as much as anything and can be close to a shoulder-lock or an arm-bar (though difficult if facing the opponent). Submission attempts tend to slip through omoplattas not end up there IMO.

 

[Ozzy_mma]

Omoplata, you see a few people going for it but rarely no body pulls it off

 

[codemonkey76]

i reckon the date-rape choke has to be the lowest percentage sub, you would have to be a moron to tap to that... or maybe a forearm choke from your own guard

 

[Shaldag]

i think the guillotine and kimura are poorly understood by most of the meatheads who try them in mma. watch a technical guy like sakuraba go for kimuras (eg vs. renzo and royler) and watch team renzo gracie guys go for guillotines they tend to finish em. most of the attempts your thinking of are by untechnical ppl who try to force them. Id clarify your point to say that guillotines and kimuras are easy grips for untechnical fighters to muscle into with no-gi. Along with leg locks guillotines and kimuras are among my highest % submissions for no-gi.

 

[kimurense]

I don't understand so many people with problems with the guilhotine! it is probably my favorite move for no gi.. I have to say it is more technical then most people think.. I've learned it from "pequeno's" team partner (Pavao) he taught me a few adjustments which work really well. Really tightened up my game

 

[blanko]

i think that people are talking about the traditional arm in gulliotine.

 

[blanko]

i think that people are talking about the traditional arm in gulliotine.

 

[Mirada]

Wow I would rate the kimura as one of the top-5 highest percentage submissions, easily.

And the guillotine is really high percentage too if you're doing it right (i.e. with a setup)


Low percentage moves would be stuff like flying armbars, omoplatas (great sweep %), gogoplatas, scorpion rib crushes (unless you're fighting hayliks), etc.

 

[Kimuralex]

Wow I would rate the kimura as one of the top-5 highest percentage submissions, easily.

And the guillotine is really high percentage too if you're doing it right (i.e. with a setup)


Low percentage moves would be stuff like flying armbars, omoplatas (great sweep %), gogoplatas, scorpion rib crushes (unless you're fighting hayliks), etc.

I agree, the 2 on 1 is a very poweful grip, I find the kimura a hard submission to defend and i think it is so high percentage because you can hit it from almost anywhere. Shit, I saw a video of rick(or phil?) miglarese hitting it from inside his opponents closed guard.

I think guillotine is misconcepted as being not powerful, because any joe shmo can do it(or thinks he can) because its like the easiest looking submission to do. so these "cagefighters" with little experience try to do it, thinking if they squeeze 100% that they will get it, and thats where the OP gets his idea that they are low percentage from. Watch any high level guy, and they kill people with guillotines, off the top of my head is ricardo almeida and renzo gracie(but im a bit biased ofcourse:icon_chee)

 

[Mirada]

atch team renzo gracie guys go for guillotines they tend to finish em.

After seeing Renzo and his guys finish the arm-in guillotine so many times I went back and reevaluated my usage of the technique, and now it works really really well for me. A couple things I revised to make it more effective:


1) Chin grab. Instead of looping the neck right away, I start off from a chin-grip now and then sink the guillotine itself in when I feel the opportunity arise. This reduces the amount of time my opponent has to get his hand into the guillotine grip to defend the choke, and also insures that my initial guillotine grip will be deeper and tighter because I am sinking it when I feel my opponent lift his chin / lower his defenses.

2) Hip movement. I come in from the side of the trapped arm now, instead of falling straight back, and I scoot my hips out to that side as well when finishing the technique.

3) Fast steady pressure. The last key element is that you have to put everything into the choke from the first second that you sink your grip, then maintain that pressure steadily until you get the tap. The longer you spend on the choke the more time your opponent has to dig his chin in, get a hand in on your grip, stack you etc. etc. I find it works best for me when I can apply a lot of pressure quickly and get a panic-tap, or have the choke so deep that my opponent will be out before he can secure effective defenses.


Anyway if you take the time to set it up right so that you get it 100% deep right off the bat and use your hip movement to keep the pressure on their neck rather than the trapped arm you'll find that its a wicked submission.



In honor of Renzo and his team I've begun to call this particular choke the Renzotine when I show it to my class.

 

[Zankou]

Depends on how you use them.

I would say that the omoplata is practically the highest percentage move, in that it seems like it nearly always gets the submission OR sweep.

As far as the others, I think the guillotine is probably number one. It's a lethal, lethal move, but it seems like 80% of the time somebody is just putting it on as a desperation move, which is exactly when it has no prayer of working.