strongman and mma

[Theseus23]

Made some posts about decided to redo my log to keep myself more honest.

I run a conjugate method for my lifts on a 4 week rotation for my lower body and 2 week rotation for my upper body.
I currently weigh 225 at 8% body fat would like to get to around 220 at 5%. so then I can cut out water to compete at 205 for mma and 200 for strongman. I have practiced a water cut before, in 2 hours cut out 10lbs, and after a meal felt fine for the rest of the night and worked out the next day. So I know I have room to cut out more water.

currentely my max lifts are
cont clean and jerk. 225
deadlift 545.
pause squat (deep) 365
bench 315
vert 31"
max atlas stone 250# carry 15feet then load 52" with tacky.
farmers 265x60"
yoke 500x60" 10 seconds.


This week was,

Monday (Lower ME)
hang clean from box, 205x1
12 inch box squat, 395
300x5x1 (for speed)
185x3x3 front squats Frankenstein style (arms out straight ahead balancing bar on delts) atg pause.
good mornings 185x5x20
quads extensions, Ghrs, 3x8. reverse hyper 90x3x10.
traps 120 dumbells 3x30.
Tuesday (upper RE)
Close grip bench 245x12,8,8
close grip pause with chains 185x8,8,8.
z press, 95x5x10
kroc row, 105x5x8
delt complex (bands 40 front raises then 40 lat raises then 40 rear delt pulls then 40 ext rot back to back for a nice pump)
high rep arms, 40x40 curls/tricep extensions superset x3.

Events tomorrow, and me upper on friday.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Edit: whoops wrong thread? Not eve sure how I got here. Sorry

 

[obroin]

I currently weigh 225 at 8% body fat would like to get to around 220 at 5%.

Dude you're a fucking monster. Holy shit.

On another note, how is your conditioning? What do you do to work on that for MMA, and how do you balance conditioning with your MMA training? I feel like you have to be eating like a goddamn horse in order to recover from all of that.

In fact, where is your MMA training in all of this, or are you going the Pudz route and getting insanely good at strongman before transitioning haha?

One thing I do notice, is that it seems like some of your lifts are weak compared to some other lifts. A 545 deadlift is awesome and a 315 bench is pretty solid, but a 365 squat and 225 cont clean and jerk seem weak by comparision. I weigh a little less than you, and I would not consider myself a strongman or a particularly strong man in any way, but our squats (325) and clean and jerks (205) are pretty close. You CRUSH me in the deadlift (405) and bench (265) though. I guess my question is-is there a reason for this disparity (like in the way you train, previous injuries, leverage ect) or do you just prefer deadlifting and benching?

 

[Jeffplsgo]

Post pictures.. i need them for emh... seeing if you can compare to my godlike body.

I like that routine though, quad ext. seems redundant for your goals, arm work a little bit as well.
Would definitely do high rep chin up / dip work instead, more functional and makes more sense keeping your goals in mind. What do you do for cardio?

 

[LZD]

Welcome to the logs! You're a beast. Looking forward to following this.

I like that routine though, quad ext. seems redundant for your goals, arm work a little bit as well.
Would definitely do high rep chin up / dip work instead, more functional and makes more sense keeping your goals in mind.

GTFO. You can't come in here and judge what he should or should not be doing in a vacuum. Maybe dips hurt his shoulder? Maybe he does them another day? Maybe the quad extensions are to recover from an injury? Or he just wants to do them for hypertrophy? Maybe the high rep curls are to increase the strength of his tendons and ligaments which are often injured during strongman? Get away.

 

[pliftkl]

Welcome to the logs. Is the difference between your squat and deadlift an anatomical thing or a conscious training thing?

 

[Theseus23]

Dude you're a fucking monster. Holy shit.

On another note, how is your conditioning? What do you do to work on that for MMA, and how do you balance conditioning with your MMA training? I feel like you have to be eating like a goddamn horse in order to recover from all of that.

In fact, where is your MMA training in all of this, or are you going the Pudz route and getting insanely good at strongman before transitioning haha?

One thing I do notice, is that it seems like some of your lifts are weak compared to some other lifts. A 545 deadlift is awesome and a 315 bench is pretty solid, but a 365 squat and 225 cont clean and jerk seem weak by comparision. I weigh a little less than you, and I would not consider myself a strongman or a particularly strong man in any way, but our squats (325) and clean and jerks (205) are pretty close. You CRUSH me in the deadlift (405) and bench (265) though. I guess my question is-is there a reason for this disparity (like in the way you train, previous injuries, leverage ect) or do you just prefer deadlifting and benching?

Thanks man spent this last year bulking since by last fight (got sick the week of the fight and competed in LHW at 185#!. Still only lost my split decision) I realized one of the reasons I lost was because I was so light and outweighed, So bulked straight for a year until I hit 235 then have been slowly trimming.

or conditioning I don't do much of it, because, this will sounds ridiculous but genetically I am crazy gifted with endurance (muscle fiber makeup) but horrible at explosive power (explain why my AXLE clean and jerk is fairly low). my whole family is the same, for example my father runs 6 miles in 36 minutes but his best one mile time is 5:50. Another example is I can max dead at 545, but rep out 500 for 5. despite squatting 365 with a pause deep. I could only hang clean 235 (maybe 245). And when I try incorporating lots of endurance work (circuits etc.) everything goes no where, but if I focus on strength that builds my endurance, (read alot of this from Martin Rooney) as another aside, when I stopped doing any endurance work (besides some strongman stuff that doesn't last more than a minute) after a year of bulking gaining 40 lbs. I still ran a mile and a half in 9 minutes. with ZERO conditioning. So I just do some mild conditioning on my event days for about 15 minutes with sledge hits, med ball throws sled pulls etc. then let my mma take the rest.

I figure lift weights to be strong, do mma to be good at mma. sense I have focused on strength training I have never felt gassed in a fight. Now I can through punches with the same amount of force as I used to except now that I am much stronger the punches don't drain me as much.

Also my strict overhead press is 200# and my max jerk is 235 to highlight even more how bad my explosive power is, and why I work so much on that instead of conditioning.

I have a bad knee in jury from a slam in judo, so for almost a year I was stuck on high box squats, because going to parallel or below crushed my knees. Another note to make is that my latest deep box squat at 395 was with more left in the tank definitely, and my 545 deadlift was complete balls to the wall rounded back and all with a hitch (strongman style). in terms of strict no hitch dead more around 515~, and squat I am more focused on flat back than deadlift, have never had a back injury from deadlifting but instead have gotten some from my butt tucking under in the squat.
I also have freakishly long legs and short arms (in proportion to my height, 70 inch wingspan 72 inches tall) while my legs I wear a size 34-38 jeans. The long legs suck for weightlifting but are great for kicking

For mma training I train 5 days a week, for about 2 hours. Whatever I feel like doing with the guys ussually an hour of technique then sparring or rolling, maybe 30 minutes of knife or gun defense or 2v1/3v1 scenarios (just to keep my skills practical).

it sounds like a metric fuckton (and it is) and I eat around 6-7k calories a day. breakfast is 2 cups of oatmeal 12 eggs 4 hotdogs and fruit.
but somehow my body has adjusted to recovering from it, one reason is because I keep the same routine and I have noticed if my body follows the same routine I don't get sore though I still make strength gains. and I rarely rarely rarely go to failure.
also genetics.

Been doing muay thai for 3 years now and jiu jitsu for 5. with a dabble of tkd judo boxing wrestling karate keysi etc. Now that I have become beastly strong (last year almost exactly this time I was deadlifting 385, and benching 225x2).

 

[Theseus23]

Welcome to the logs. Is the difference between your squat and deadlift an anatomical thing or a conscious training thing?

long legs makes for much harder squatting than deadlifting I have found, and for strongman dead or more important than squat so I focus more on it. squat will be catching up soon as its more of a focus.

 

[Theseus23]

Post pictures.. i need them for emh... seeing if you can compare to my godlike body.

I like that routine though, quad ext. seems redundant for your goals, arm work a little bit as well.
Would definitely do high rep chin up / dip work instead, more functional and makes more sense keeping your goals in mind. What do you do for cardio?

I do the high rep arms and quad extens for strongman prehab. and to get used to a little lactic acid. and my arms are a weakpoint for me always have been. The high rep for prehab is better than going super heavy, and in terms of functionality, snapping a karate kick is pretty similiar to a quad ext. a hammerfist is pretty much a tricep ext. So i feel that have functionality. and besides my strongman stuff, like yoke carries and farmers walks (that are all 8-30 seconds in duration) and a little bit of conditioning, sledge, sled, sandbag carries etc. which at most are a minute. I just let my mma condition me, or more importantly, teach me how to pace myself, I think thats more important than conditioning is learning how to become efficient. thats just me and what I have found.

 

[Theseus23]

pics soon, also most of my weight is in my legs and I'm tall so it won't be as scary as you are thinking

Wednesday training,
no lifting,
one hour sparring, focusing on punches and clinches.
30 minutes take downs from stand up,
30 minutes knife disarms from all angles.

Thursday training,
so far
jumps, 32 inch vert, 34 inch 2 step vert, 9ft broad jump. other various jumps.
yoke 600~ 60 ft. 15 seconds 5 sets all around the same time.
played with new rocks today with no tacky still a little wet, made gripping a bitch, got a 210 to a 56" for about 5 sets. (have heard tacky adds around 50#s to your stone now I believe it)
conditioning, 250lb sled pull while carrying a 200# keg, for alot. then 20 sledge hammers than throw a 70lb rock over 8ft. bar for 5 reps, repeat a couple times.
quad and hams ext,
traps and abs.
(side note, for weighted abs but the weight behind your head and leave it there to stop from using your lats to build momentum)

sparring later and preferably a bunch of take downs,
also diet so far, 12 eggs, some naan, and about 4 ounces of chicken.

Thanks for the support guys I really appreciate it.

 

[obroin]

Thanks man spent this last year bulking since by last fight (got sick the week of the fight and competed in LHW at 185#!. Still only lost my split decision) I realized one of the reasons I lost was because I was so light and outweighed, So bulked straight for a year until I hit 235 then have been slowly trimming.

or conditioning I don't do much of it, because, this will sounds ridiculous but genetically I am crazy gifted with endurance (muscle fiber makeup) but horrible at explosive power (explain why my AXLE clean and jerk is fairly low). my whole family is the same, for example my father runs 6 miles in 36 minutes but his best one mile time is 5:50. Another example is I can max dead at 545, but rep out 500 for 5. despite squatting 365 with a pause deep. I could only hang clean 235 (maybe 245). And when I try incorporating lots of endurance work (circuits etc.) everything goes no where, but if I focus on strength that builds my endurance, (read alot of this from Martin Rooney) as another aside, when I stopped doing any endurance work (besides some strongman stuff that doesn't last more than a minute) after a year of bulking gaining 40 lbs. I still ran a mile and a half in 9 minutes. with ZERO conditioning. So I just do some mild conditioning on my event days for about 15 minutes with sledge hits, med ball throws sled pulls etc. then let my mma take the rest.

I figure lift weights to be strong, do mma to be good at mma. sense I have focused on strength training I have never felt gassed in a fight. Now I can through punches with the same amount of force as I used to except now that I am much stronger the punches don't drain me as much.

Also my strict overhead press is 200# and my max jerk is 235 to highlight even more how bad my explosive power is, and why I work so much on that instead of conditioning.

I have a bad knee in jury from a slam in judo, so for almost a year I was stuck on high box squats, because going to parallel or below crushed my knees. Another note to make is that my latest deep box squat at 395 was with more left in the tank definitely, and my 545 deadlift was complete balls to the wall rounded back and all with a hitch (strongman style). in terms of strict no hitch dead more around 515~, and squat I am more focused on flat back than deadlift, have never had a back injury from deadlifting but instead have gotten some from my butt tucking under in the squat.
I also have freakishly long legs and short arms (in proportion to my height, 70 inch wingspan 72 inches tall) while my legs I wear a size 34-38 jeans. The long legs suck for weightlifting but are great for kicking

For mma training I train 5 days a week, for about 2 hours. Whatever I feel like doing with the guys ussually an hour of technique then sparring or rolling, maybe 30 minutes of knife or gun defense or 2v1/3v1 scenarios (just to keep my skills practical).

it sounds like a metric fuckton (and it is) and I eat around 6-7k calories a day. breakfast is 2 cups of oatmeal 12 eggs 4 hotdogs and fruit.
but somehow my body has adjusted to recovering from it, one reason is because I keep the same routine and I have noticed if my body follows the same routine I don't get sore though I still make strength gains. and I rarely rarely rarely go to failure.
also genetics.

Been doing muay thai for 3 years now and jiu jitsu for 5. with a dabble of tkd judo boxing wrestling karate keysi etc. Now that I have become beastly strong (last year almost exactly this time I was deadlifting 385, and benching 225x2).

That's really interesting that someone who is naturally go gifted in the endurance department has gravitated towards sports that are far more explosive in nature.

I agree that circuit training is largely useless in my training-I like to incorporate maybe 1 metcon/Crossfit circuit a week, but any more than that and I find that everything starts to suffer. Currently I'm lifting 4 days a week on 5/3/1, doing BJJ 3 times a week, 1 metcon session, and then a long run on the weekend, and I'm finding that I feel better than ever. My run time is lower than it was when I was running 4-5 a week, but in everything else I feel stronger and I have more energy. I also didn't squat for several years because I injured my lower back doing it, and high school me thought I knew better than my coaches, so that's part of why my squat is low comparatively as well.

Currently I'm eating roughly 3500 cal/day, with a little less on rest days, but I'm starting to think I might need to eat more. I have struggled in the past bulking without putting on a lot of fat, so I've been trying to keep calories down.

Honestly I think we have a similar training philosophies. You're just better at it. I see so many guys doing "sport specific" training and I, and many of the coaches I follow, think it's a waste of time. Strength and Conditioning should be just that- Strength and Conditioning. No "agility training' or anything else is going to match the sports demands actually practicing and playing your sport will produce. Looking forward to reading and learning more from you. Keep killing it in the gym and giving me some motivation man.

 

[Theseus23]

That's really interesting that someone who is naturally go gifted in the endurance department has gravitated towards sports that are far more explosive in nature.

I agree that circuit training is largely useless in my training-I like to incorporate maybe 1 metcon/Crossfit circuit a week, but any more than that and I find that everything starts to suffer. Currently I'm lifting 4 days a week on 5/3/1, doing BJJ 3 times a week, 1 metcon session, and then a long run on the weekend, and I'm finding that I feel better than ever. My run time is lower than it was when I was running 4-5 a week, but in everything else I feel stronger and I have more energy. I also didn't squat for several years because I injured my lower back doing it, and high school me thought I knew better than my coaches, so that's part of why my squat is low comparatively as well.

Currently I'm eating roughly 3500 cal/day, with a little less on rest days, but I'm starting to think I might need to eat more. I have struggled in the past bulking without putting on a lot of fat, so I've been trying to keep calories down.

Honestly I think we have a similar training philosophies. You're just better at it. I see so many guys doing "sport specific" training and I, and many of the coaches I follow, think it's a waste of time. Strength and Conditioning should be just that- Strength and Conditioning. No "agility training' or anything else is going to match the sports demands actually practicing and playing your sport will produce. Looking forward to reading and learning more from you. Keep killing it in the gym and giving me some motivation man.

yeah I justed hated running despite being good at it, it was just soo boring and at minimum took ~5 minutes to set a pr (around the time of a one mile run) where as in that same time frame I get set two prs or three prs. in the gym. I could see that long run helping you however I wouldn't make it that much longer than 11~ minutes if you compete in amateur mma (3 3 minute rounds and total of 2 minute break). or else I feel like you are training your body too much endurance.

are you trying to bulk? if so why? I have done crazy bulking in the past from 160 (at 6'2) to 220 in a year then after tons of martials arts and cardio phase (again) (running or swimming once a day for an hour and atleast 3 hours of martial 6 days a week) and my lifting being crossfit shit which I did because I was good at it (first fran time being 2:42) I trimmed back down to 185. Then just hardcore bulked to 240~. and was pretty fucking fat, maybe 18% body fat. Are you tryna bump up a weight class? if not don't bulk, if you are, accept the fat gain and just take some time off from competing but still train. until you can trim back down. but that all depends on how much you are moving up in weight / class. let me know maybe I can give some tips.

exactly you get your sport specific training from the sport. that sounds like pretty good training, I hear a lot of great things about 5/3/1 (I just didn't like the time to set prs, I like setting prs fast because my body can) as long as I eat right.

 

[Theseus23]

Training today Me upper
Incline close grip 300x1 (15# pr in two weeks, also had spotter so I could push it more than last time)
incline 185 70# of chains for 6 speed singles every thirty seconds ala westside. This really helps explosive power, which I think is great for punching speed. (inspired from Joe Defranco)
push press 205x2x3, (decent pr, from 185x3x4 two weeks ago)
pull-up 60extra poundsx3x3
delts front lat rear delt ext rot giant set.
bis and trips super set, 3x8-12.

gunna get some wrestling work in today before I have to go in to work later. wrestling and take downs are my weak point tryna crush that.

 

[Jake Pudenz]

Having a 30+" vertical with a that weak of a squat doesn't exactly scream "horrible at explosive movements" to me.

Also, there is very little, if any, relation between OHP and the jerk. They are completely different movements.

"Beastly strong" is a bit extreme, too.

No "agility training' or anything else is going to match the sports demands actually practicing and playing your sport will produce.

Are you suggesting that agility isn't a trainable quality or should only be trained during the actual sport? If you are, you're absolutely wrong.

 

[Theseus23]

Having a 30+" vertical with a that weak of a squat doesn't exactly scream "horrible at explosive movements" to me.

Also, there is very little, if any, relation between OHP and the jerk. They are completely different movements.

"Beastly strong" is a bit extreme, too.


Are you suggesting that agility isn't a trainable quality or should only be trained during the actual sport? If you are, you're absolutely wrong.

you're right about beastly strong. pretty good strength is a more appropriate term i meant more in comparison to my lifts last year which for me is beastly strong. and as I said my squat is hindered by an injured knee and low back, but if you compare my dead (545) to my my vert. or my hang or full clean (245) to my dead, its not very good.
And last year I had a 24" vert. so I was absolutely fucking horrible at explosion. So now its not that bad comparing the two.
the ohp and jerk are way different however most don't have a 35# difference, I should be able to get more than 35 pounds by exploding with my legs and then doing a partial push press (dipping to lock it out).

what kind of agility training do you use that carries over?

today I'm gunna practice sweating out water and see what I can do.

 

[obroin]

Are you suggesting that agility isn't a trainable quality or should only be trained during the actual sport? If you are, you're absolutely wrong.

Not at all. That came out a little stronger than intended. What I mean is that it seems pretty hip to try to make every exercise of every session you do "sport specific." I specifically said agility because I find that this seems to be a trait that these sport specific sessions say they will improve more.

My college swim coach read a bunch of magazines and had us doing all sorts of ridiculous variations of exercises that looking back I think didn't help us. For example, doing back extensions on a stability ball and pretending to "swim" with 2.5 lb plates in our hand. She made the divers do med ball slams (to work on throwing their arms to generate momentum for the flips) but they had to do 3 "hops" before throwing the ball to simulate the approach.

I just feel that keeping your "strength work" strength work, and then keeping sport specific/conditioning work separate, is a far more effective way to train. Strength training is the marble, and sport specific work is the hammer and chisel. Now, if you're throwing agility drills into the sport specific or conditioning sessions, that's great and makes perfect sense. But doing one legged lateral ski hops on a bosu ball while holding a medball in one arm over your head to work on your balance and agility is not.

I can't remember what article I read it in, but I read a story about olympic sprinters doing hang cleans with straps, and landing in an alternating stance, supposedly to work on their starts and exploding out of the blocks. The author of the article thought this was a terrible idea, partially because the straps made getting away from a failed rep impossible, but also because he felt that the variation they were doing would actually have very little carry over to their races. Better to work on good, strong cleans, and then work on the starts on the track. That's a better example of what I mean.

yeah I justed hated running despite being good at it, it was just soo boring and at minimum took ~5 minutes to set a pr (around the time of a one mile run) where as in that same time frame I get set two prs or three prs. in the gym. I could see that long run helping you however I wouldn't make it that much longer than 11~ minutes if you compete in amateur mma (3 3 minute rounds and total of 2 minute break). or else I feel like you are training your body too much endurance.

are you trying to bulk? if so why? I have done crazy bulking in the past from 160 (at 6'2) to 220 in a year then after tons of martials arts and cardio phase (again) (running or swimming once a day for an hour and atleast 3 hours of martial 6 days a week) and my lifting being crossfit shit which I did because I was good at it (first fran time being 2:42) I trimmed back down to 185. Then just hardcore bulked to 240~. and was pretty fucking fat, maybe 18% body fat. Are you tryna bump up a weight class? if not don't bulk, if you are, accept the fat gain and just take some time off from competing but still train. until you can trim back down. but that all depends on how much you are moving up in weight / class. let me know maybe I can give some tips.

exactly you get your sport specific training from the sport. that sounds like pretty good training, I hear a lot of great things about 5/3/1 (I just didn't like the time to set prs, I like setting prs fast because my body can) as long as I eat right.

Strength is more important to me than hypertrophy, but I'm not opposed to bulking a little bit if it gets me stronger and looking better haha. The reason for most of my training is because I'm about to commission in the Marine Corps. That's why I do longer runs, to keep me in shape for the PFT and the other long runs I will inevitably have to do. Right now I'm not competing, with the exception of maybe an amateur BJJ tournament here or there where I don't really care what weight class I end up it. I train because I enjoy it, and also to prepare me for MCMAP.

I'm not really trying to bulk-the reason I'm thinking about increasing my caloric intake isn't to bulk, but more to increase performance. By the time my deload week comes up every 4th week, I feel pretty burnt out and exhausted. I'm working as a beer delivery driver right now while I wait to ship, so between two workouts a day and a moderately physically active job, I think increasing my calories a bit might help with recovery. I see guys like you who eat a lot more than me staying lean and keeping up crazy workout schedules, so I figure it might help me to start eating a little more.

5/3/1 is an awesome program and it's really cool how much you can adjust it to fit you're personal situation. You can go for rep or weight records every week if you want. I also like focusing on a few big exercises-it helps keep me motivated to train and hit every set hard. I only do 4 exercises on the lower body days, and 6 on the upper, which is nothing compared to the crazy stupid shit I did in the past, and I'm making better gains than ever. The only problem, like I mentioned earlier, is that I'm pretty burnt out on the last couple sessions before the deload, since I'm lifting heavy every session of every week. I came up with a couple tweaks to mix it up, and I'm excited to see how it plays out in the next few cycles.

 

[Theseus23]

Got some good training in today,
245 jerk from the rack.
deadlifted 535 from a 3 inch elevation w/out a hitch.
then did 10x1 speed pulls at 405 every minute for ten minutes.
then did 405x3x3 sumo (help me loosen up my hips)
some split squats with 130 total#s
shrugs and abs ghrs and leg press.

then did an hour of no gi rolling (sucks after leg day)
then two foot long subs from subway.
now back to the rest of my classes.

 

[Theseus23]

Re upper
255x10, then 6 then 7 wide grip bench.
then 225x3x8 wide grip paused zero leg drive.
overhead press 115x5x8 short rests and pausing each rep.
pullups 5x12,strict dead hang at 225 short rests (30 seconds).
delt circuit, arm circuit, ext rot

shadowboxing and light sparring 1 hour total,
hopefully some wrestling later.

 

[Theseus23]

Got some pretty good event training in today.
235 axle, cont clean and jerk (the clean is a bitch because my axle is homemade and is a pvc pipe that is slippery and rotates like a pvc pipe instead of an axle)
230 axle cont clean and push press. (just forgot to jerk).
680 yoke for 30 ft. 10 seconds, (training for brute's strongest man in January with max axle)
put some tacky on today for my stones cuz my elbow joints hurt horribly last friday after doing them without tacky.
230 to 48" without tacky
230 to 56" with tacky (both prs).
did a bunch of sets with that.
then did some heavy heavy sled work.
400lb sled for a bunch then sprints with 340 and 200
then traps and abs heavy.

fuckin hate tacky it takes so long to get off and disrupts my workout, thats why I didn't originally want to use it but after my joints were killing me last time I figured I have to. Maybe next week I will try no tacky but duct tape on forearms. so that I can squeeze harder with my chest and less with my bis.

 

[Dan O]

Id check with the organizer on using the jerk in the max axle. Many events only allow strict/push/viper presses for overhead events.