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Straight up wrestling who wins Bo or Khamzat?

Not just Taylor. Bo nikals was also an inferior wrestler to his universities coach so at best the third best wrestler at his university

Taylor is an Olympic gold medalist. Bo beat everyone else at the Trials. I'm not sure what "coach" you're referring to, but it is in any case pretty weird to use people who aren't even in active competition anymore.

Suffice it to say that Bo has accomplished and proven far more in the realm of amateur wrestling than Khamzat has.
 
Taylor is an Olympic gold medalist. Bo beat everyone else at the Trials. I'm not sure what "coach" you're referring to, but it is in any case pretty weird to use people who aren't even in active competition anymore.

Suffice it to say that Bo has accomplished and proven far more in the realm of amateur wrestling than Khamzat has.
The coach was Sanderson. Do you even watch wrestling? Or did you just buy into the ufc hype machine randomly?
 
The coach was Sanderson. Do you even watch wrestling? Or did you just buy into the ufc hype machine randomly?

I know who Cael Sanderson is, lol, I was trying to get you to actually come out and say his name instead of just dancing around it instead of "his university's coach" like you were.

Again, minus one brief appearance in 2011, Cael has been retired from active competition since 2004 so your argument makes about as much sense as saying that Alex Pereira can't be the best fighter at his gym because Glover's there. Furthermore, it's possible for Bo to be inferior to guys at his resident university and for both guys to still be better than a third party. The two are not mutually exclusive. Iron sharpens iron.

So, do you have any real substantive arguments to make for supporting Khamzat having a superior wrestling pedigree to Bo despite the fact that Nickal has accomplished way more on the freestyle scene even if you put his folkstyle accolades aside?
 
I know who Cael Sanderson is, lol, I was trying to get you to actually come out and say his name instead of just dancing around it instead of "his university's coach" like you were.

Again, minus one brief appearance in 2011, Cael has been retired from active competition since 2004 so your argument makes about as much sense as saying that Alex Pereira can't be the best fighter at his gym because Glover's there. Furthermore, it's possible for Bo to be inferior to guys at his resident university and for both guys to still be better than a third party. The two are not mutually exclusive. Iron sharpens iron.

So, do you have any real substantive arguments to make for supporting Khamzat having a superior wrestling pedigree to Bo despite the fact that Nickal has accomplished way more on the freestyle scene even if you put his folkstyle accolades aside?
You didn’t know who Sanderson is if you did you wouldn’t ask a stupid question like that!!


Horrible example btw cause the talent and legacy difference between Glover and Alex is no where near that of Sanderson and Bo. Sanderson is the goat and like I said earlier Bo wasn’t even the best in his own little team. Taylor beat him for the Olympic bid too.


Being a D1 wrestler doesn’t make you the worlds best at it. Justin G is a D1 wrestler. Yet Most dagestanis would grapple fuck him. Khamzats mma wrestling pedigree is proven to be better. Bo nikals doesn’t even have a statistically significant sample size of mma wrestling success to go off. His amateur accolades are exactly that amatuer. GSP out wrestled all kinda of ncaa greats, no reason to doubt Khamzat toying with nikals too
 
GSP out wrestled all kinda of ncaa greats, no reason to doubt Khamzat toying with nikals too

The question was pure wrestling, not MMA grappling. GSP has no dog in this since the question, was once again, pure wrestling. Bo wins 100/100 vs Khamzat in Folk Style, Freestyle, and Greco.
 
The question was pure wrestling, not MMA grappling. GSP has no dog in this since the question, was once again, pure wrestling. Bo wins 100/100 vs Khamzat in Folk Style, Freestyle, and Greco.
One guy was national champion three times in a row the other wasn’t even the best in his little college. So I will go with the first guy.
 
The coach was Sanderson. Do you even watch wrestling? Or did you just buy into the ufc hype machine randomly?
Since Cael took over at Penn State they started churning out multiple national champions just about every year. Is there an issue here?
 
Way more wrestling accolades and huge size advantage. Don't even know why this is a question ha.

That being said although I think Bo would probably beat Khamzat in MMA, I'd love to see it because Khamzat's boxing is levels above Bo despite Bo having impressive striking for just a year doing it in earnest.


{<jordan}
Welcome to how delusional Khamzat fans are.

Didn't you know man? He'd be the MW and LHW champion right now if the UFC would just let him fight.
 
You didn’t know who Sanderson is if you did you wouldn’t ask a stupid question like that!!

I know exactly who Sanderson is, I've known about him for years, but you insisted on using the term "his university's coach" as if it was an insult and I wanted to see if you were actually silly enough to use a guy who's been retired for well over a decade and is basically acknowledged as one of the All-Time Greats of amateur wrestling to try and shore up your argument against Bo by getting you to say it out loud.

And, lo and behold, you were.

Horrible example btw cause the talent and legacy difference between Glover and Alex is no where near that of Sanderson and Bo.

Congrats on missing the point. The fact of the matter is that you can't use the accolades of a retired competitor who happens to serve in a coaching capacity adjacent to Athlete A to come to the conclusion that an entirely separate third party in Athlete B is superior to A. It makes zero fucking sense.

Sanderson is the goat and like I said earlier Bo wasn’t even the best in his own little team. Taylor beat him for the Olympic bid too.

And? What's your point? Sanderson being the GOAT only hurts your argument. Meanwhile, Taylor went on to prove he was the best in the world that same year. Bo beat everyone else at the Trials. You realize that it's possible for Bo to not be as good as the literal best in the world in Taylor and yet still be better than Khamzat who never even made it remotely close that level, right? The two aren't mutually exclusive and in fact the evidence supports it. You're using a non-sequitur to support Khamzat being superior to Bo here.

Being a D1 wrestler doesn’t make you the worlds best at it. Justin G is a D1 wrestler. Yet Most dagestanis would grapple fuck him. Khamzats mma wrestling pedigree is proven to be better. Bo nikals doesn’t even have a statistically significant sample size of mma wrestling success to go off. His amateur accolades are exactly that amatuer. GSP out wrestled all kinda of ncaa greats, no reason to doubt Khamzat toying with nikals too

Show me where I said being a D1 wrestler makes one the world's best wrestler. Bringing up MMA wrestling is a red herring. We're talking about a pure wrestling match contested under freestyle rules. It's cute that you talked about me not knowing anything about the sport of wrestling yet you don't know what the term "amateur wrestling" means.

Khamzat's greatest accomplishments in freestyle wrestling are a bronze medal at the Russian Junior Nationals and taking gold at the Swedish Nationals, the latter of which are a notorious backwater of freestyle talent compared to their Greco program. He couldn't pin or tech Jack Hermansson, a guy with a Greco background who's been focusing on MMA for years.

Bo, even if we leave aside his NCAA accolades -- not to mention him making it to the finals of the Olympic Trials --- took gold at the US Freestyle National Championships and gold at the U23 Freestyle World Championships (defeating the likes of Tsakulov and Zubairov in the process, teching the former and beating the latter 9-1). These two accomplishments alone are an order of magnitude greater than what Chimaev has accomplished in the realm of freestyle wrestling. Arguing otherwise is pure, unadulterated ignorance. It's possible that Chimaev might have been the real deal on the freestyle circuit had he gotten the opportunity to represent Sweden's national team at the Olympics & World Championships... but it didn't happen. As such, there's no question who the more accomplished pure wrestler is and that's Bo. No one's talking about MMA here.
 
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Since Cael took over at Penn State they started churning out multiple national champions just about every year. Is there an issue here?
If you don’t know who Sanderson is and him being 100x better than Nikals yea there’s an issue otherwise not so.
 
If you don’t know who Sanderson is and him being 100x better than Nikals yea there’s an issue otherwise not so.
I do know who Sanderson is. He went undefeated in college and then won a Gold Medal. Now he's considered as one of the best coaches as well. You also mentioned David Taylor who has won a Gold Medal too. You really are holding Bo up to some pretty high standards. Those guys aren't fighting in the UFC. There's maybe a handful of fighters on Bo's level in pure wrestling.
 
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I know exactly who Sanderson is, I've known about him for years, but you insisted on using the term "his university's coach" as if it was an insult and I wanted to see if you were actually silly enough to use a guy who's been retired for well over a decade and is basically acknowledged as one of the All-Time Greats of amateur wrestling to try and shore up your argument against Bo by getting you to say it out loud.

And, lo and behold, you were.



Congrats on missing the point. The fact of the matter is that you can't use the accolades of a retired competitor who happens to serve in a coaching capacity adjacent to Athlete A to come to the conclusion that an entirely separate third party in Athlete B is superior to A. It makes zero fucking sense.



And? What's your point? Sanderson being the GOAT only hurts your argument. Meanwhile, Taylor went on to prove he was the best in the world that same year. Bo beat everyone else at the Trials. You realize that it's possible for Bo to not be as good as the literal best in the world in Taylor and yet still be better than Khamzat who never even made it remotely close that level, right? The two aren't mutually exclusive and in fact the evidence supports it. You're using a non-sequitur to support Khamzat being superior to Bo here.



Show me where I said being a D1 wrestler makes one the world's best wrestler. Bringing up MMA wrestling is a red herring. We're talking about a pure wrestling match contested under freestyle rules. It's cute that you talked about me not knowing anything about the sport of wrestling yet you don't know what the term "amateur wrestling" means.

Khamzat's greatest accomplishments in freestyle wrestling are a bronze medal at the Russian Junior Nationals and taking gold at the Swedish Nationals, the latter of which are a notorious backwater of freestyle talent compared to their Greco program. He couldn't pin or tech Jack Hermansson, a guy with a Greco background who's been focusing on MMA for years.

Bo, even if we leave aside his NCAA accolades -- not to mention him making it to the finals of the Olympic Trials --- took gold at the US Freestyle National Championships and gold at the U23 Freestyle World Championships (defeating the likes of Tsakulov and Zubairov in the process, teching the former and beating the latter 9-1). These two accomplishments alone are an order of magnitude greater than what Chimaev has accomplished in the realm of freestyle wrestling. Arguing otherwise is pure, unadulterated ignorance. It's possible that Chimaev might have been the real deal on the freestyle circuit had he gotten the opportunity to represent Sweden's national team at the Olympics & World Championships... but it didn't happen. As such, there's no question who the more accomplished pure wrestler is and that's Bo. No one's talking about MMA here.
A very long triggered rant!!

I am go back to the original point (which is factual): Bo wasn’t even the second best guy in his little college. Now that’s a fact. You can get into micro level details all you want but if you are getting all micro level and detail oriented please tell me how he was better than Sanderson or Taylor? He wasn’t so my claim stands even though it’s just a harsh troll play on my part.


Khazmat never won an NCAA cause he never fought in it!!! Swedish nationals is where he competed and he won that.

khamzat vs hermansson is your sample? Gordon Ryan who isn’t even a national champion or anything owned bo Nikals and made him quit when they sub”wrestled”.

bo nikals is a dime a dozen amateur wrestler. He’s not a beater like a Karlein or Sanderson or the Cuban long armed guy. Most national winners elsewhere would beat him.
 
I do know who Sanderson is. He went undefeated in college and then won a Gold Medal. Now he's considered as one of the best coaches as well. You also mentioned David Taylor who has won a Gold Medal too. You really are holding Bo up to some pretty high standards. Those guys aren't fighting in the UFC. There's maybe a handful of fighters on Bo's level in pure wrestling.
Yes to the first part.

Not a handful of pure wrestlers more like about a 1000+ guys when you factor in the European and Asian wrestling programs along with our american amateur system.

Bo is great and all but we pump out so many wrestlers (as does the world) that it’s hard to verify true greatness without extended international (Olympics included) reigns of dominance. Nikals didn’t make it as a great on the world level unfortunately. So it’s just opinions without a sample size of success
 
A very long triggered rant!!

No one's "triggered", but by all means continue to project your feelings upon others.

I am go back to the original point (which is factual): Bo wasn’t even the second best guy in his little college. Now that’s a fact. You can get into micro level details all you want but if you are getting all micro level and detail oriented please tell me how he was better than Sanderson or Taylor? He wasn’t so my claim stands even though it’s just a harsh troll play on my part.

Except I never claimed he was better than either of those men. This is a strawman on your part. Are you playing "logical fallacy Bingo" and just trying to cross off as many as you can? Mentioning the GOAT of collegiate wrestling and then a literal Olympic gold medalist in freestyle, i.e. the only guy who prevented Bo from going to the Olympics himself, has been your weird idea of making an argument that relates to Khamzat... somehow... in a way that you've yet to establish.

Khazmat never won an NCAA cause he never fought in it!!! Swedish nationals is where he competed and he won that.

I never said anything about Khamzat competing in NCAA. I directly referenced his Swedish National pedigree and called it for what it is: a backwater of wrestling talent relative to their Greco program which they actively funnel most of their studs into. He was the biggest fish in a small pond, that's it.

khamzat vs hermansson is your sample? Gordon Ryan who isn’t even a national champion or anything owned bo Nikals and made him quit when they sub”wrestled”.

Khamzat and Hermansson had a match contested under freestyle wrestling rules. The only thing remotely unconventional about it was the presence of a cage, but the vast majority of the match occurred in the center of the enclosure. Comparing it to submission grappling is disingenuous and you know this, but then saying silly things seems to be specialty of yours.

bo nikals is a dime a dozen amateur wrestler. He’s not a beater like a Karlein or Sanderson or the Cuban long armed guy. Most national winners elsewhere would beat him.

Citation needed. He is anything but "dime-a-dozen".

Yes to the first part.

Not a handful of pure wrestlers more like about a 1000+ guys when you factor in the European and Asian wrestling programs along with our american amateur system.

Bo is great and all but we pump out so many wrestlers (as does the world) that it’s hard to verify true greatness without extended international (Olympics included) reigns of dominance. Nikals didn’t make it as a great on the world level unfortunately. So it’s just opinions without a sample size of success

Except there's nothing opinion-oriented about Bo's verifiable accomplishments at the national & international level and the depth of talent he faced in both as compared to Chimaev. Khamzat never even competed at the international level. The only one who's dealing in opinions here is you by asserting that Khamzat has a superior pedigree based on ?????????

Now, I'm going to ask that you provide evidence for how a guy whose best accomplishments in freestyle are a bronze medal at the junior nationals and a gold at the nationals in a country decidedly not known for its FS wrestling talent somehow has a better wrestling pedigree than someone who took a gold at U23 Worlds and Nationals (in a country that very much is known for producing high-level FS wrestlers).

Respectfully: put up or shut up.
 
BJ learned BJJ from his neighbor before he officially started training, which is how he got to black belt that fast. Wonder how much form his mother went over with him through his childhood that is impacting his development. He is not looking too green.

I didn't know this -- that makes his achievement a little less amazing, but still amazing.
 
No one's "triggered", but by all means continue to project your feelings upon others.



Except I never claimed he was better than either of those men. This is a strawman on your part. Are you playing "logical fallacy Bingo" and just trying to cross off as many as you can? Mentioning the GOAT of collegiate wrestling and then a literal Olympic gold medalist in freestyle, i.e. the only guy who prevented Bo from going to the Olympics himself, has been your weird idea of making an argument that relates to Khamzat... somehow... in a way that you've yet to establish.



I never said anything about Khamzat competing in NCAA. I directly referenced his Swedish National pedigree and called it for what it is: a backwater of wrestling talent relative to their Greco program which they actively funnel most of their studs into. He was the biggest fish in a small pond, that's it.



Khamzat and Hermansson had a match contested under freestyle wrestling rules. The only thing remotely unconventional about it was the presence of a cage, but the vast majority of the match occurred in the center of the enclosure. Comparing it to submission grappling is disingenuous and you know this, but then saying silly things seems to be specialty of yours.



Citation needed. He is anything but "dime-a-dozen".



Except there's nothing opinion-oriented about Bo's verifiable accomplishments at the national & international level and the depth of talent he faced in both as compared to Chimaev. Khamzat never even competed at the international level. The only one who's dealing in opinions here is you by asserting that Khamzat has a superior pedigree based on ?????????

Now, I'm going to ask that you provide evidence for how a guy whose best accomplishments in freestyle are a bronze medal at the junior nationals and a gold at the nationals in a country decidedly not known for its FS wrestling talent somehow has a better wrestling pedigree than someone who took a gold at U23 Worlds and Nationals (in a country that very much is known for producing high-level FS wrestlers).

Respectfully: put up or shut up.
Yet another long rant.

Further proof you are triggered by my troll bait. You even started replying to convos with others lmao. But then again not knowing who Sanderson was already set the expectations for this convo.


Good comment and question in the end. If mijian Lopez stopped wrestling after not winning the worlds in 2006 is what khamzats ceiling is I guess. Still better than dime a dozen ncaa guys like Bo in my personal opinion.


Oh is Cuba > Swede?

I give you canada, neither Bret hitman hart or Trish won their version of nationals but not went on to win various world titles in wrestling more than even Bos coach that you didn’t know about. Is the Rock part Canadian too? He didn’t even win bronze at the world or world juniors
 
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