Straight Ankle Lock vs Achilles Lock?

[MarcoW]

Are these the same lock, or is it just the positioning of your forearm that changes it?
When I've learned these in class they are never really named, just demonstrated, so I can't tell if they are the same or different locks. On Youtube I have watched videos for both and unless there are minor differences they seem the same.

So what is the difference between these two moves?

 

[jmay829]

Same thing. I guess you could make the argument that it being a "straight ankle lock" means theres no twisting so it's IBJJF legal, while and "Achilles lock" could have some twisting motion like Reily Bodycomb does it, but again they really are the same submission.

 

[Uchi Mata]

No difference. Though if you're doing it right, you're not attacking the Achilles tendon, you're basically doing a toe hold with your armpit. Which the IBJJF has never called illegal, probably since it's almost impossible to actually tell how pressure is being applied since the correct way looks a lot like the incorrect way (just putting pressure on the tendon).

 

[Calibur]

An Achilles lock is a type of straight footlock. Its the one most people think of when you sit back on an opponent with their outstretched leg.

Leg laces and that move you do when someone takes your back and crosses their feet are also straight foot locks.

Using the terms interchangeably is fine.

Similar to how a kimura is a "shoulder lock" (among other things) but so is an omoplata.

 

[Leify]

The Achilles lock name is a misnomer. Regardless of what you call it, you're hyperextending the tendons along the anterior side of the ankle. That's what a straight ankle lock does.

 

[dmwalking]

From how I learned it from a SAMBO instructor, they are different. The achilles lock smashes the achilles tendon while the straight ankle attacks the actual ankle.

I finish the achilles lock without ever engaging the ankle joint. And I finish the straight ankle lock without attacking the achilles. They are different.

 

[Steve08]

One really hurts a lot but is otherwise manageable, whereas the other will result in a broken ankle.

The Achilles lock name is a misnomer. Regardless of what you call it, you're hyperextending the tendons along the anterior side of the ankle. That's what a straight ankle lock does.

hmmmmm, so is it possible to actually tear the achilles tendon with an ankle lock?

 

[Leify]

One really hurts a lot but is otherwise manageable, whereas the other will result in a broken ankle.hmmmmm, so is it possible to actually tear the achilles tendon with an ankle lock?

I don't want to say it's impossible, but in an athletic individual, improbable. Putting inward pressure on the Achilles tendon isn't going to tear it. That's just painful and part of the reason the straight ankle lock was thought to just be a pain move by many people.

You'd have to completely fold the ankle to the anterior side (the opposite direction of an Achilles lock), which is really fucking tough, or rotate the foot laterally while keeping get the shin fixed, where the shin would snap long before the Achilles tendon.

We're talking about the strongest tendon in the human body.

 

[Uchi Mata]

One really hurts a lot but is otherwise manageable, whereas the other will result in a broken ankle. hmmmmm, so is it possible to actually tear the achilles tendon with an ankle lock?

A 'straight' ankle lock properly applied is essentially a toe hold done with your armpit. It will cause the same damage as a toe hold, which is to tear up the peroneous tendons (and if taken far enough possibly dislocate the ankle). The Achilles tendon will be fine.

 

[ChainFlow]

From how I learned it from a SAMBO instructor, they are different. The achilles lock smashes the achilles tendon while the straight ankle attacks the actual ankle.

I finish the achilles lock without ever engaging the ankle joint. And I finish the straight ankle lock without attacking the achilles. They are different.

Are you talking about the one that hits the achilles right where it goes into the calf muscle? That one hurts like crazy.

 

[dmwalking]

A 'straight' ankle lock properly applied is essentially a toe hold done with your armpit. It will cause the same damage as a toe hold, which is to tear up the peroneous tendons (and if taken far enough possibly dislocate the ankle). The Achilles tendon will be fine.

Similar, but different. The toe hold rotates and the straight ankle pulls the ankle straight back. My coach explains it much better, but there are different mechanics at play in both.

Are you talking about the one that hits the achilles right where it goes into the calf muscle? That one hurts like crazy.

Not really, but you can definitely attack it that low on the leg. But sometimes I'll catch a leg where my forearm isn't high enough to flex the ankle back. But with the right angle, you can put a ton of pressure and get the tap just by smashing the tendon.

My coach describes it as a "meat tenderizer" effect. Like when you pound a steak to tenderize it. It's a similar situation where the blade of your forearm is crushing the tendons and muscles. It's not just a pain move like some people like to believe. You can definitely get injured if you try to tough it out.