Stocky/fat fighter=naturally smaller=BS?

[BigMuffler]

When people are talking about a fighters "natural weightclass" they are talking about what weightclass their frame is suited for. Penn is a natural LW, Nelson a natural MW, Fedor a natural LHW etc.

I know what people 'think' they're talking about, I just question its merit.

 

[buda2]

TS is right. If anything MMA, combat sports in general should've proven that your figure isn't a good indicator of how good a fighter you are. I'm going to go even further than TS and expand to all sorts of body types that people look down on that were successful nonetheless.

Examples: Frankie Edgar is "small" for LW but is arguably the best LW ever.

BJ Penn, the other possibly best LW ever, also happened to be a WW champ. Regardless of whether or not you think he fought best here or there he was a WW champ, so at one point in time he was the best WW regardless of how "small" he was.

Shogun, Evans, Machida, Hendo were all LHW champs and no matter that some fans claim they should cut weight cuz they seem a little small, and in Shogun's case supposedly carry around a little extra chub, they were all legit champs.

Fedor, the greatest HW still was supposedly undersized and chubby.

Tim Sylvia, believe it or not so far the most dominant UFC champ, was fat clumsy but he still was definitely a dominant champ at his peak.

In fact I think when guys supposedly "look" better at a lower division after they've shed that extra chub or been pressured to reboot their career by fighting at a supposedly more natural weight division it's all just hype.

Rich Franklin is the only example I can think of a guy who purposely cut weight to improve his chances of getting a belt who did in fact get a belt by dropping a division.

 

[cevo]

Guys with big muscles have to eat a lot of food and weight train extensively to stay that way, hence they're not any more natural yet only 'fat/chubby' fighters are criticized for being in a higher class than their 'natural' one.

When people say 'natural weight class', they're talking about weight classes that are suitable for a fighter's frame. And that means, fighting at a weight without carrying too much muscle and/or fat. Like I said before, strength is important in MMA, so you can't jump up 2 weight classes adding only fat (Roy) and still be effective.

But people on Sherdog are generally clueless, so don't bother arguing about things like this.

 

[zephid]

TS is right. If anything MMA, combat sports in general should've proven that your figure isn't a good indicator of how good a fighter you are. I'm going to go even further than TS and expand to all sorts of body types that people look down on that were successful nonetheless.

Examples: Frankie Edgar is "small" for LW but is arguably the best LW ever.

BJ Penn, the other possibly best LW ever, also happened to be a WW champ. Regardless of whether or not you think he fought best here or there he was a WW champ, so at one point in time he was the best WW regardless of how "small" he was.

Shogun, Evans, Machida, Hendo were all LHW champs and no matter that some fans claim they should cut weight cuz they seem a little small, and in Shogun's case supposedly carry around a little extra chub, they were all legit champs.

Fedor, the greatest HW still was supposedly undersized and chubby.

Tim Sylvia, believe it or not so far the most dominant UFC champ, was fat clumsy but he still was definitely a dominant champ at his peak.

In fact I think when guys supposedly "look" better at a lower division after they've shed that extra chub or been pressured to reboot their career by fighting at a supposedly more natural weight division it's all just hype.

Rich Franklin is the only example I can think of a guy who purposely cut weight to improve his chances of getting a belt who did in fact get a belt by dropping a division.

But now you are bringing a fighters skill into the equation, which isn't what this is about.

The question is this: What weighclass is better suited for Penn's frame, LW or WW? Just ignore his accomplishments, skill etc and just focus on his physical body. What weightclass should someone with Penn's frame fight in? The answer is obviously LW.

 

[HowitZer]

Whatever the drawbacks or benefits of carrying some body fat though, I don't think 'natural' is the accurate term to use... maintaining a very muscular physique requires a ton of work, in that sense a Nelson body is arguably more 'natural' than one like (insert ripped guy's name)'s that took years and years of dedicated lifting to build.

lol no it doesn't. It just takes a more strict diet to maintain a more chiseled physique. Roy does enough training to have a good physique. His problem is diet.

 

[BigMuffler]

When people say 'natural weight class', they're talking about weight classes that are suitable for a fighter's frame. And that means, fighting at a weight without carrying too much muscle and/or fat. Like I said before, strength is important in MMA, so you can't jump up 2 weight classes adding only fat (Roy) and still be effective.

You can't really prove that Roy would be more effective at MW or LHW unless he actually drops down and does much better - and even if that happened, it would be just be Roy, you couldn't generalize it to Fedor, or Shogun, or Cormier, or...

With regard to most fighters the 'what weight would their frame be best suited to' is largely guesswork, with the exception being someone like Hendo who we know has no gas at MW these days.

 

[DrHouse]

Roy is a MW if I ever saw one.

 

[BigMuffler]

lol no it doesn't. It just takes a more strict diet to maintain a more chiseled physique. Roy does enough training to have a good physique. His problem is diet.

If you put it that way, it takes more work to watch your diet and work out, than it does just to work out. Hence being less 'natural'.

 

[QTdd**]

Because muscle is helpful in a fight whereas fat isn't helping anyone

Tell that to Kimbo Slice and James McSweeney..

 

[zephid]

You can't really prove that Roy would be more effective at MW or LHW unless he actually drops down and does much better - and even if that happened, it would be just be Roy, you couldn't generalize it to Fedor, or Shogun, or Cormier, or...

With regard to most fighters the 'what weight would their frame be best suited to' is largely guesswork, with the exception being someone like Hendo who we know has no gas at MW these days.

The reason why you can't know if Roy would be better at LHW is because of his style of fighting and how he would match up against the other LHW's. But that's not really what this is about, is it?

For me the question is this: Would Roy's body perform better with the same amount of muscle mass but with 20 lbs less fat? Of course it would.

 

[mst-dot]

what would igor or tyson be then?

 

[solyhhit]

Nelson isn't a natural MW, he's a natural HW.

He's a professional athlete who does cardio, strength and fight training and is still fat and sort of obese. That's just his natural physique.

You sound fat.

 

[BigMuffler]

The reason why you can't know if Roy would be better at LHW is because of his style of fighting and how he would match up against the other LHW's. But that's not really what this is about, is it?

For me the question is this: Would Roy's body perform better with the same amount of muscle mass but with 20 lbs less fat? Of course it would.

Not sure he would do better even at HW or against the same opponents, which is what it's really about.

 

[FREE BEER!]

Because muscle is helpful in a fight whereas fat isn't helping anyone

This is not necessarily true.

Picture 2 guys, one weighs 230 ripped, the other 250 with 20 lbs of extra body fat. Let's also assume they are equally strong.

Now the lighter fighter will be faster which is an advantage, but if the heavier guy gets on top, the extra body fat will absolutely be an advantage in controlling his opponent and require the guy on the bottom to use more energy to escape.

 

[apoth]

Chad Mendes versus Cody McKenzie.

Stockier + More Muscle = Win

 

[lapollarecords]

Nelson's clearly not a 'natural' HW, his frame isn't. Not that I care or think he could have better success at lower weight classes.

Werdum is a huge mf. he is making a career off beating fatties. Fedor, Nelson, Russow. Nog was pretty chubby in his last fights...

 

[OldManGrip]

I've noticed there seems to be a double standard among some here constantly calling fighters who are stocky and/or carrying some body fat 'natural' (insert smaller weight class than their current one)'s, while fighters who are noticeably mostly muscle are rarely called out as such. For example things like

Shogun is a natural MW
Rashad is a natural MW
Nelson is a natural MW (!)

But don't people realize that carrying lots of muscle isn't necessarily 'natural' either - not making a generalized steroid accusation here, just that it takes hard work in the gym and EATING A LOT (just like with fat) to maintain a ton of muscle... so how is some body fat less 'natural' than muscle? Yeah maybe if Nelson never ate much as a kid he'd have an MW build... by the same token maybe if Shane Carwin (one of the largest HW's even though he's only 6'1) never ate much or lifted heavy weights, he'd be able to make LHW or MW.

Discuss.

fat helps in certain positions to control opponent

 

[OldManGrip]

GSP is short and stocky it helps him take down and control his opponents, aldo and bendo are kinda stocky/short but well muscled and they have no problem against tall lanky guys, cormier and cain also have type of body to do well against much taller fighters as did fedor so I agree it doesn't mean they should all move down a weight class

 

[Terror Zone]

With regard to most fighters the 'what weight would their frame be best suited to' is largely guesswork, with the exception being someone like Hendo who we know has no gas at MW these days.

Myth.

 

[aus101]

Whatever the drawbacks or benefits of carrying some body fat though, I don't think 'natural' is the accurate term to use... maintaining a very muscular physique requires a ton of work, in that sense a Nelson body is arguably more 'natural' than one like (insert ripped guy's name)'s that took years and years of dedicated lifting to build.

I somewhat agree, in that the whole term "natural weightclass" is a stupid term, and there is no such thing as a "natural weight". You wanna find out your natural weight, smoke weed and eat maintenance calories for a couple months. Whatever it is will be nothing like the weight your in shape to fight in.

Fighters can fight in any weight division they can make, their "natural" weightclass is the one they can be most successful at. As an example, after 5 months of training I'm walking around around at 185, up from 160. Now what's my "natural weightclass"? 155? 170? 185? Hell 145? I could make any of them equally as "naturally".