"Stipe's win over Francis was better than Francis' win over Stipe"

Linelo said:
I think the lack of finish was more due to Stipe’s BJJ. He had many opportunities to get in hooks and pursue an RNC esp. in the later rounds.
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He might have been gassed himself. But a sub would have been a good option as he had dominant position most of the night
 
theleerygoose said:
The problem is that we have one fighter who wasn’t in his Prime the first time, and one fighter who was falling out of his Prime in the second fight. Stipe is not the same fighter at age 39 having suffered 3 battles with DC including a KO loss and Retina tear. Sorry, not how it works.

Same with Ngannou he looked much cleaner and more technical in the rematch.

At this point a rematch is pointless. Stipe would get destroyed again. But Prime for Prime they are probably pretty evenly matched.
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This, although I think the "new" Ngannou still hasn't had his cardio tested.
 
stipe was old and extremely light in the second fight, huuuuuuge mistake did you see how he couldnt wrestle with ngannou at 235 lbs ? what works with dc isnt what works with ngannou, also ngannou was the exact same fighter in the second only stipe got worse and sumber (his brain is literally eaten by cte at this point he only runs by muscle memory)
 
Obviously the blanket will be biased in saying that decisions are better. But all blankets wish they could have KO power. Which is why a lot of wrestlers/BJJ guys fall in love with striking if they have any ounce of success in it. I believe a lot of the power is genetic though.
 
Blaydes is right. Not only has Stipe accomplished far more, but the Stipe in the 2nd fight looked pretty diminished. His wrestling was sloppy and non-committal, he had lost muscle, wasn’t nearly as explosive…
I don’t think I’d rank Ngannou in the top 10 HWs of all time, personally. Not at this point.
 
Have to disagree there.

In the first fight it was still very tense on the feet and Ngannou always looked like he had a chance. I was pretty unimpressed with the damage Stipe was doing with total control of an exhausted opponent as well.

The second fight Stipe looked utterly helpless and was running away from Ngannou the entire time. The moment he decided to take a step forward he got brutally KO'ed. It was one of the most dominant title wins from a challenger ever imo.
 
Stipe didn’t just get caught, he was dominated. He was roughed up in the first and leading up to the KO. Failed a takedown, got taken down and mauled trying to get up, kicked in the head, knocked down and took a bunch of punches in the head all before the KO. Stipe does have an iron chin, though. Most would have been KOd after the first big right hand.

Stipe did have an impressive win in the first fight but he took a bunch of punishment in the process. Ngannou didn’t take anywhere near the same type of punishment in the second fight.
 
BFoe said:
Blaydes is right. Not only has Stipe accomplished far more, but the Stipe in the 2nd fight looked pretty diminished. His wrestling was sloppy and non-committal, he had lost muscle, wasn’t nearly as explosive…
I don’t think I’d rank Ngannou in the top 10 HWs of all time, personally. Not at this point.
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I never understood why Stipe lost so much weight, because on his win streak and becoming the champ he would always weigh in at around 246 , but then after time off he grew his hair and was so slim, 230 against Cormier and got knocked out cold easily... then the rematch with Cormier I honestly thought Cormier dominated the entire fight easily expect for 2 minutes where he got finished. Then against Ngannou again Stipe was so slim, looks like a welterweight but with just a big bulbus head

I suspect those vile bro scientists have got hold of him and hence the chin gone and strength
 
Stipe has the better body of work and accomplishments to this point. But it’s silly to say decisions are better than finishes. Stipe nullified Francis for 25 minutes. Then Ngannou rendered him physically unable to continue after 7, that’s far more impressive.
 
It was, probably, and it has little to do with method. Ngannou was on a great streak and looked near unstoppable when Miocic beat him where Miocic had gone life and death with Cormier, losing the first fight, losing most of the second fight and really not looking great in the 3rd fight. Different places both guys were in, thus different levels of "good" the wins are. Both wins are good.

Azyy said:
Finishes are always more impressive than decisions.
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always? So Ngannou finishing Luis Henrique is a better win than Stipe beating Cormier by decision because it's a finish? this is a dumb point.
 
I don’t necessarily agree with his reasoning but I think he is ultimately correct.

Francis beat a 39 year old Stipe. That’s not as impressive as beating someone in their prime. Like if someone younger waits around and beats Usman in 5 years when he’s 39 it isn’t as impressive as Colby losing to him now while Usman was at the top.
 
According to an actual decision machine. Ridiculous
 
Stipe was coming off 3 dog shit performances against DC (who also looked like shit), and then had another against Ngannou. It's pretty fair to say he's probably past his prime, and may not even have still been champ against Ngannou if he didn't get DC 3x in a row.

Meanwhile both were relatively at their bests in their first fight. Francis is better nowadays than he was then sure, but that doesn't mean he wasn't rightfully the #1 HW contender at the time who could've won, and nearly did a few times, back then too.

So yeah, while Francis won more impressively and over the higher ranked fighter, I don't view it as the more impressive win itself.
 
francis has been more impressive. i dont need to see a 3rd fight. it probably goes the same way. stipe can't knock him out and can't definitely can't take him down anymore.

all francis has to do is trade a couple times and stipe goes out.
 
mjfan23 said:
First fight only proved Stipe is pillow fisted and can’t finish Francis
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Please. Francis had 30 pounds on Stipe. Fights like this show why the UFC needs a Super HW division. Stipe winning the first fight at age 35 was far more impressive. He was 38 when he lost, a senior citizen by MMA standards, and in-between were two wars against DC. Not to mention he has a real job as a firefighter-paramedic.
 
Reffson said:
Please. Francis had 30 pounds on Stipe. Fights like this show why the UFC needs a Super HW division. Stipe winning the first fight at age 35 was far more impressive. He was 38 when he lost, a senior citizen by MMA standards, and in-between were two wars against DC. Not to mention he has a real job as a firefighter-paramedic.
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Guys KO heavier fighters all the time. Example manheof vs hunt! And both stipe and Francis came in within the allowed weight range.

Please name one good fighter that Stipe beat in their your!!
 
mjfan23 said:
Guys KO heavier fighters all the time. Example manheof vs hunt! And both stipe and Francis came in within the allowed weight range.

Please name one good fighter that Stipe beat in their your!!
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All the time? Dumb. All the other divisions opponents are like within 1 or 2 pounds of each other. HW's can be what, almost 60 pounds different? It's insane.
 
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