Starting Strength vs Bill Starr 5x5

[Mickey Mouse]

ive been lifting for a couple years but only really ever made up my own programs. havent been consistent and not alot of lower body or back work. never had anyone to teach me how to lift just kind of learned as i went and tried to learn as much as possible from magazines and anything i could find.

ive decided to find a good program to get a base of strength and size since ive never really had a good base for lifting and was wondering whether you guys thought i should go with starting strength or bill starr 5x5.

im pretending like my past lifting experience never happened and am starting completely fresh.

which program do you guys think would be better for me to follow?

 

[SuperAlly]

Based on your post in general and your penultimate line especially SS would make the most sense.

 

[CRZA]

SS is a beginner program, 5x5 is a intermediate program. Since your saying that you havent done alot of lower body or back work, I suggest you start on SS, as your deadlift and squat will probably improve faster on it than on 5x5.

 

[BONOSUX]

If the first two didn't convince you, add a third vote for SS

 

[SFire]

I vote SS. Tried 5x5, but that obviously wasn't well suited for someone who struggles to bench an empty bar .

 

[Krudar]

hmm.. I have the same question! I'm new to the entire strength training, but I have been really active for the past 3-4 years, so I kind of made a smooth transition into the 5x5..

I bench 45s, squat 165, military press 85, but I'm struggling like hell on the deadlift, rows, and PULLUPS!..never did any kind of strength training before.. all body weights. I weigh 162. What do you guys think.. should I switch over to the SS? or stay on the 5x5. I really want to improve my deadlift, and rows.

To the TS: I was hoping itll give you a better picture as well, if any one responds to this..was gonna start my own topic, but your question seemed really similar to mine. Thanks.

 

[michaelenzo]

SS is aimed at the beginner who can increase their PR on a workout by workout basis.

5x5 is aimed for mainly the intermediate lifter who can no longer increase their PR on a workout to workout basis, and must now progress into weekly by weekly basis.

Based on my limited knowledge, to make any kind of progress on either programs you need to eat above your calorie maintenance. Moreover, seeing that you both still have trouble lifting very light weights, it can be assumed your own program sucks and you are inconsistent, and mostly that you are not eating enough.

On either program you would need to be very consistent (never miss a workout), get enough rest, and eat a calorie excess.

 

[Krudar]

SS is aimed at the beginner who can increase their PR on a workout by workout basis.

5x5 is aimed for mainly the intermediate lifter who can no longer increase their PR on a workout to workout basis, and must now progress into weekly by weekly basis.

Based on my limited knowledge, to make any kind of progress on either programs you need to eat above your calorie maintenance. Moreover, seeing that you both still have trouble lifting very light weights, it can be assumed your own program sucks and you are inconsistent, and mostly that you are not eating enough.

On either program you would need to be very consistent (never miss a workout), get enough rest, and eat a calorie excess.

I'm still on my first week.. but I havent increased any of the weights yet. I read how SS lets you increase weight on a workout to work out basis, so maybe thats alot better for me?

 

[Aleks Sytsevich]

If strength is the goal, SS should be what everyone starts with. Krudar, there are no rows or pull-ups in the novice SS program. Just Squat, Bench, Deads (day a) and Squat, Press and Power Cleans (day b).

Doing this program and doing GOMAD + DEAD (plus other food too, that's a given) will make you strong as fuck.

There are a multitude of 5x5, there is not a the 5x5, maybe specify which 5x5 you are doing.

TS, do SS. And drink your milk.

 

[Krudar]

SS is aimed at the beginner who can increase their PR on a workout by workout basis.

5x5 is aimed for mainly the intermediate lifter who can no longer increase their PR on a workout to workout basis, and must now progress into weekly by weekly basis.

Based on my limited knowledge, to make any kind of progress on either programs you need to eat above your calorie maintenance. Moreover, seeing that you both still have trouble lifting very light weights, it can be assumed your own program sucks and you are inconsistent, and mostly that you are not eating enough.

On either program you would need to be very consistent (never miss a workout), get enough rest, and eat a calorie excess.

If strength is the goal, SS should be what everyone starts with. Krudar, there are no rows or pull-ups in the novice SS program. Just Squat, Bench, Deads (day a) and Squat, Press and Power Cleans (day b).

Doing this program and doing GOMAD + DEAD (plus other food too, that's a given) will make you strong as fuck.

There are a multitude of 5x5, there is not a the 5x5, maybe specify which 5x5 you are doing.

TS, do SS. And drink your milk.

I'm currently doing the Bill star Primer 5x5 ... I will officially start up my strength training when i get back from the break in january.. wont have access to a gym for the 3 weeks, but will most likely join up a Muay thai gym for those 3 weeks. I'm currently wokring on burning off the remaining body fat on me.. eating under 40 grams of carbs, but in january I will start loading up on milk.

 

[SMillard]

If strength is the goal, SS should be what everyone starts with. Krudar, there are no rows or pull-ups in the novice SS program. Just Squat, Bench, Deads (day a) and Squat, Press and Power Cleans (day b).

Doing this program and doing GOMAD + DEAD (plus other food too, that's a given) will make you strong as fuck.

There are a multitude of 5x5, there is not a the 5x5, maybe specify which 5x5 you are doing.

TS, do SS. And drink your milk.

He is talking about the 5x5 listed in the FAQ which does have pullups and rows.

TS, you said you are struggling with deadlifts, I have a sneaking suspicion you are struggling with other lifts as well. Get SS, learn to correct form and you will be pleasantly surprised with your progress.

 

[Aleks Sytsevich]

He is talking about the 5x5 listed in the FAQ which does have pullups and rows.

TS, you said you are struggling with deadlifts, I have a sneaking suspicion you are struggling with other lifts as well. Get SS, learn to correct form and you will be pleasantly surprised with your progress.

Thanks for clarifying. I never call that a 5x5...I call it Carnal's 2 day split. Typically, I find that Starr's 5x5 is the 5x5 that people refer to when generalizing.

And agreed, get SS the book. It's that time of year, put it on your Christmas list and read the hell out of it.

 

[Endo]

I would go wither either SS or the 5x5 Beginner program. One thing to consider is that eventually SS will cause you to overtrain. When you get to a squatting heavy weight 3x a week it just takes a shit ton out of you and becomes unmanageable. I experienced this at about 1.25-1.5x my bodyweight and began getting lower back injuries, inconsistency in what I was capable of lifting, and I had recovery problems.

At the point that you lifts are over bodyweight and are relatively substantial, you might want to consider a program like TM or Madcow 5x5 or 5/3/1. Something that has periodization will help to prevent overtraining symptoms.

 

[michaelenzo]

Also forgot to mention a few lessons I learned the hard way on both routines.

Start weights relatively lower, be conservative. Your only loss here is its an extra few weeks of working up. Take your time to learn how to do every exercise properly. I messed up on power cleans and TFCC tears don't heal.

 

[DrBdan]

I would go wither either SS or the 5x5 Beginner program. One thing to consider is that eventually SS will cause you to overtrain. When you get to a squatting heavy weight 3x a week it just takes a shit ton out of you and becomes unmanageable. I experienced this at about 1.25-1.5x my bodyweight and began getting lower back injuries, inconsistency in what I was capable of lifting, and I had recovery problems.

At the point that you lifts are over bodyweight and are relatively substantial, you might want to consider a program like TM or Madcow 5x5 or 5/3/1. Something that has periodization will help to prevent overtraining symptoms.

TM, Madcow 5x5 and 5/3/1 don't have anything to do with periodization. They simply have a slower progression. TM and Madcow 5x5 are weekly while 5/3/1 is monthly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Arpie]

^ TM has volume, light and heavy days. 5/3/1 has weeks associated with different rep ranges. Isn't that periodization?

 

[Aleks Sytsevich]

5x5 has a light day as does TM. 5/3/1 has weeks of progressive percentages of a training max. These are simple periodization methods, with 5/3/1 being the most complex of the aforementioned.

 

[Tosa]

Periodization is the planned variation of training. This typically means manipulating volume, reps, intensity. Which is present in TM, Bill Starr's 5x5 and 5/3/1. The only good routines that don't use some kind of periodization are meant for complete beginners who can progress linearly - Ie. Starting Strength.

 

[milano]

TM, Madcow 5x5 and 5/3/1 don't have anything to do with periodization. They simply have a slower progression. TM and Madcow 5x5 are weekly while 5/3/1 is monthly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Linear progression programs are the only ones that have no periodization.

Madcow, Texas Method and Wendler's 5/3/1 all use some form of periodization. Madcow and Texas Method are structured into weekly microcycles (volume, light, heavy) and 5/3/1 is structured into a mesocycle containing 4 microcycles (which use different rep set and load schemes)

 

[DrBdan]

Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that periodization was a longer term thing. e.g. strength block, power block, conditioning block. Obviously an area I need to learn more about.