Starting BJJ sparrings standing...

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by mogway, Oct 18, 2005.

  1. mogway

    mogway Blue Belt

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    For the last month, I've been starting all of my bjj sparrings in training, standing up. That is with me and my training partner both standing. I don't know why the bjj communety always starts fights on knees. It can be because of a problem of space, but IMO I think that this is such a waste of judo skills. About 90 percent of bjj guys I know have horrible judo skills because they never practise it.
    What do u think about this?
     
  2. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    I agree. We practice Judo most of the time, and use a Judo belt progression, but we work on BJJ extensively as well. It is good to be well rounded. When we go to open mat ground work, we start from the knees to save space.
     
  3. blanko

    blanko Guest

    I start standing up... as my coach says " there is no postitino in jiujitsu where both of you are are clinching from your knees"
     
  4. Coach Couzo

    Coach Couzo Orange Belt

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    My school places good emphasis on takedowns and throws. It is important to note that BJJ does include takedowns and throws (remember the BJJ came from Japanese Jiu-Jitsu - the mother of Judo and many other martial arts). BJJ teaches what many term as wrestling or Judo takedowns. Although the emphasis on takedowns is stronger in the other two sports, BJJ has plenty.

    From my experience at BJJ tournaments (I am no brown/black belt), takedowns can make the difference between the winner and loser. A good takedown can lead to a quick submission, points, or just a dominant top position. One of my favorite moves is a basic single leg takedown. I then establish a tight side control. For whatever reason, some people (three matches I can think of right now) tend to panic during the takedown and waste a lot of energy trying to prevent me from establishing side control. During this panic, my opponent usually 'gives' me a submission. I believe if more BJJ practitioners (usually the lower belts) started rolling from their feet, they would do better in tournaments.

    -- Just my thoughts.
     
  5. serima

    serima Green Belt

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    Agree. I am starting 50 % from the knees and 50% from standing, i started to do that few mounths ago and it have made my stand up a lot better.
     
  6. goat_man

    goat_man Orange Belt

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    I think the starting from the knees in bjj is so more people can spar safely and get down to the winning point of the sport, instead of siting on the sidelines waiting for their go like in Judo clubs. If your club has more mats than mine, and less people, I don't see why you wouldn't train standing more often.
     
  7. Joey Guidice

    Joey Guidice Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    Also starting on the feet is alot more dangerous ....throws cause injuries ...i mean we train them and have days where we start on the feet...but for hte most part we start on the ground because its safer
     
  8. jiujitsujayhawk

    jiujitsujayhawk Yellow Belt

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    I think you are absolutely right. Number one, judo is not used enough in mma. Number two, it's a lack of space, which really sucks.
     
  9. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

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    My old school we always started standing, then once we hit the ground we worked for submission. At my new school we always start in guard and rotate. I like the first method better because you work on both skills. I think alot of BJJ guys are afraid of getting hurt from being thrown or slammed so they shy away from it.
     
  10. vanguard_anon

    vanguard_anon Clever user title

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    My school always starts standing, it has sort of an MMA focus. It does risk injury, especially for newer guys, but after a while you get good at avoiding injury.

    I'm not sure how my takedowns are. I beat guys with no background but our judo blackbelt and wrestlers typically do better than I do. I hope to be formidable against any normal person (wrestler, etc.) in a year or so.
     
  11. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    It's a matter of safety. If you think about your basic judo class, and th eamount of time working on breakfalls, off balancing, the throws... You would come away from the ground game. It's vice versa with Judo, where there's so much focus on the throws and such that their ground game develops slower than BJJers (at least the subs).

    It's rougher on the body and more dangerous to work takedowns every class, and most BJJ schools train 3-5 nights a week. I've been doing Judo since 2000, and even still, I got taken down at my last no gi class off a body lock, and the way I landed on the guy's arm has fucked my back ALL up. I'm still stiff. I used to spend days with my fingers, elbows, and knees aching from Judo, and that was with senior students... Doing stand up every class in BJJ would be like going with yellow/orange belts in Judo, where they know just enough to be dangerous-- there'd be people locking out people's knees, defending by dropping their ass causing the other guy to pop his elbow/back/whatever.
     
  12. Steeltwo

    Steeltwo Green Belt

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    with a soild throw, you will land in control of someone.

    a soild outside reap will give you an armbar before they even hit the ground. Same goes for the shoulder throw.

    I do judo though,
    anyway my instructor says to lock in the submission or pin before they land.
    It's pretty hard to escape an armbar if your opponent has already got their knees pinched and are half way back by the time your butt and feet hit the ground.


    oh and my instructors favorite line about when a fall hurts and the breakfall was done properly. "This isn't dance class."
     
  13. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    You mean AS they land, right? An ippon seio nage into flying jujigatame sounds a little... far fetched.
     
  14. Steeltwo

    Steeltwo Green Belt

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    i'll pm you how it works, but it would probly be close with the -as they land technique-.
     
  15. Commissar

    Commissar Gold Belt

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    Wow.

    At my BJJ school, starting on the ground is only done if one of the two competitors have a sore knee, or they want to specifically drill a position.

    Otherwise we always start standing. Always.
     
  16. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    Ah ah ah now, Steeltwo... You're being close minded!

    The Sambo style "flying arm bar" is fully legal, and I used to have a gif of Jimmy Pedro hitting a true flying armbar as an av. It's just rare, I think, and unpracticed for the most part.

    I think I know what you mean about putting the technique on halfway down, as I've seen a guy toss the guy over and thro his leg over his chest as he's landing, then put the other one on and lean back just as the guy hits... But aren't you basically sacrificing control and force for that? I've never seen it done in a situation where the uke wasn't cooperating.
     
  17. Mark Allen

    Mark Allen Enforcer

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    new guys start down, until they demostrate control and the ability to take a fall (taught seperately) then standing for all. we have 2500 square feet of mat, so space isnt the problem, saftey comes first though...
     
  18. Yozigi

    Yozigi ChulCheck

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    Flying armbars are fully leagal in judo, I've managed to hit one in a competition. I've propably tried it like 20 times, so the succeeding percent isn't too shabby ; D Anyways, I've never been penalized for it.
     
  19. Steeltwo

    Steeltwo Green Belt

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    i've always been told flying armbars are illegal. that on foot has to be on the ground?
     
  20. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    That's like the Sambo one... It looks almost like the guy's going for Tomoe Nage (I usually do, but let him sort of fall off my leg to "catch" him with my legs in the armbar). The one I saw from the worlds was hit like the guy was going for kane basame (which is illegal), and that one might be banned form certain tourneys to avoid less skilled guys form going for it and either hurting themselves or someone else.

    I tried one in BJJ the other night rolling with my instructor, and I wound up with the arm, but my shin planted on his skull, and he just started laughing. "You crazy bastard..." was all he said, which was pretty cool, considering I'd just kicked him in the head.

    Rumino Sato I am not.
     

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