STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Mike]

It's almost like they didn't have a grasp on who Luke Skywalker was and ignored the guy who knew him best (Hamill).

RJ shit on the lore, continuity, tone, the plotlines from TFA, and the beloved characters from the OT. They killed off Luke and Snoke who could have played a vital role in IX, but what is left now besides some Reylo romance that appeals to the Twilight crowd? Seriously what interesting thing can they salvage from this steaming pile of garbage? Disney needs to clean house and start fresh.

I don't get what I'm supposed to care about in part 3. They closed every plot thread, and literally spent half the movie dicking around with pointless bullshit.

No time to develop Poe or Finn, but they had time for that dumbshit Holdo arc, casino world and plucky asian. Snokes dead, Phasma is dead, Luke's dead. So are Han and Leia. We've already seen Rey beat up Ren. He sucks as a main villain, and they didn't BUILD him in any way before he killed Snoke in a really idiotic way. Oh they got those dumbass twists in though. It's like M Night made this movie.

Who cares if anything has any logic, world building or storytelling, because WHAT A TWIST!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

oh I got the point.

 

[One MMA Fan]

oh I got the point.

Good, let's have a drink then.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

shit that looks like testicle milk from tlj!!!!!

 

[HomerThompson]

So dumb.

 

[One MMA Fan]

shit that looks like testicle milk from tlj!!!!!

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

I knew it

padme was no green jizz dodger

 

[Morning Star]

I don't get what I'm supposed to care about in part 3. They closed every plot thread, and literally spent half the movie dicking around with pointless bullshit.

No time to develop Poe or Finn, but they had time for that dumbshit Holdo arc, casino world and plucky asian. Snokes dead, Phasma is dead, Luke's dead. So are Han and Leia. We've already seen Rey beat up Ren. He sucks as a main villain, and they didn't BUILD him in any way before he killed Snoke in a really idiotic way. Oh they got those dumbass twists in though. It's like M Night made this movie.

Who cares if anything has any logic, world building or storytelling, because WHAT A TWIST!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. They spent the better part of 2 movies making Kylo look like a petulant child who got bested by a complete novice force user not once but twice. Then they regulated Hux to a role of a incompetent buffoon in the TLJ, while killing off the only character that came off as a menacing threat in the most cartoonish of ways. I won't even bother to go on about how they fucked over the good guys. Could write a few pages on that easily.

 

[ufcfan4]

I don't get what I'm supposed to care about in part 3. They closed every plot thread, and literally spent half the movie dicking around with pointless bullshit.

No time to develop Poe or Finn, but they had time for that dumbshit Holdo arc, casino world and plucky asian. Snokes dead, Phasma is dead, Luke's dead. So are Han and Leia. We've already seen Rey beat up Ren. He sucks as a main villain, and they didn't BUILD him in any way before he killed Snoke in a really idiotic way. Oh they got those dumbass twists in though. It's like M Night made this movie.

Who cares if anything has any logic, world building or storytelling, because WHAT A TWIST!!!!!!!!!

That's the corner they have backed themselves into. It's up to JJ and co. to try to cleverly find a way out. It certainly, absolutely will cut a chunk out of the gross of the next movie though. TLJ, polarizing opinions aside, made sick domestic box office- something like 680 mill I think. I would be pretty surprised if the follow up clears 550. And look that's a great number but I think diminishing returns will be the order of the day because TLJ as you said, closed a lot of the elements that added intrigue.

I will certainly see the next one, but I have trouble visualizing how they make a satisfying conclusion.

 

[ufcfan4]

Agreed. They spent the better part of 2 movies making Kylo look like a petulant child who got bested by a complete novice force user not once but twice. Then they regulated Hux to a role of a incompetent buffoon in the TLJ, while killing off the only character that came off as a menacing threat in the most cartoonish of ways. I won't even bother to go on about how they fucked over the good guys. Could write a few pages on that easily.

I liked Kylo up until late in TLJ. First, I thought Driver did a good job. But otherwise, I liked aspects of the character. They establish him as this Vader wannabe, but he's got some cool things to distinguish him from just that gimmick. Different look, different voice, cool powers we hadn't previously seen a force user wield (he can stop laser bolts in midair and freeze them there, can lock a person down in place with the force, can literally use the force to wrest memories and thoughts out of a person's mind).

Sure they had him be a petulant child- particularly from the point where he took the mask off in TFA, but I thought he still was at least compelling to watch in his early scenes in the TLJ.

But then when they have him kill Snoke and take over the operation, I lost interest. He became as generic as they come from that point. If the central issue in the first for him was that he was a Vader emulator but was worried that he was being lured to the light side of the force, and the central issue in the early part of TLJ is that he is that he has adopted a mentality that you have to let go of the past to pave your own way, then I think the central aspect from the point at which he assumes leadership of The First Order is that he's just a p.o.s. who wants to get revenge on those who slighted him and will use the greatest power in the galaxy to do that.

I don't really know where they go from here with him to make him a compelling threat to p4p Rey.

 

[Morning Star]

I liked Kylo up until late in TLJ. First, I thought Driver did a good job. But otherwise, I liked aspects of the character. They establish him as this Vader wannabe, but he's got some cool things to distinguish him from just that gimmick. Different look, different voice, cool powers we hadn't previously seen a force user wield (he can stop laser bolts in midair and freeze them there, can lock a person down in place with the force, can literally use the force to wrest memories and thoughts out of a person's mind).

Sure they had him be a petulant child- particularly from the point where he took the mask off in TFA, but I thought he still was at least compelling to watch in his early scenes in the TLJ.

But then when they have him kill Snoke and take over the operation, I lost interest. He became as generic as they come from that point. If the central issue in the first for him was that he was a Vader emulator but was worried that he was being lured to the light side of the force, and the central issue in the early part of TLJ is that he is that he has adopted a mentality that you have to let go of the past to pave your own way, then I think the central aspect from the point at which he assumes leadership of The First Order is that he's just a p.o.s. who wants to get revenge on those who slighted him and will use the greatest power in the galaxy to do that.

I don't really know where they go from here with him to make him a compelling threat to p4p Rey.

Such a good point there in the highlighted section.

I didn't care for Kylo in TFA. He was whiny, threw temper tantrums, and couldn't handle a noob and a stormtrooper in a fight. However he was probably the most compelling character in TLJ. He showed character growth and was given more character depth and more backstory. Then the throne scene happened and he turned into the generic bad guy that had to blow up everything/everyone and rule the galaxy (Literally reminded me of ROTS with Hayden).

 

[Myrddin Wild]

That's not the Luke from the OT.

We've all ready discussed this.. but that IS the Luke from the original trilogy. It's just not the luke from later in it. He digressed back to his original tendancies. It's all there. I've given examples previous to this & I'm surprised you brought it up again.

maybe some traumatic events happened that changed him. Or, he became full of himself. Ok, then SHOW how that happened

Well they did show what happened. You just didn't think it was enough.

You don't need more. Well.. obviously you do... but it's not needed for this movie. It's completely understandable why he is not only upset by how he handled Kylo'z attraction to the dark, but he's also unclear about his religion in general.... so now we find a Luke that's in this transitory stage.

So it all makes sense. Your gripe is NOT that it doesn't make sense. your gripe is that you don't like it & you wish they would've done something different.

IMO

OT Luke was NOT the kind of guy that would just take off and leave innocents, including his own family and friends, to die. Especially not when he helped create the threat.

That's a bit dramatic. When Luke left, everyone was fine. Now someone shows up after a couple of years & he doesn't automatically change now that his whole religion is in question & he he's in a state of confusion.

However, you leave out that he rocks up in the end.

100% Luke rocked up in the end. You nor anyone else should never mention this subject without addressing that. A person falling into depression after very traumatic events & even goes further to question the validity of his religion itself is 100% valid. If you don't like that decision for the story.. then that's your point of view... but it is not that "the story doesn't make sense."

Spoiler

The people are pissed because Luke died and they didn't get to see some bad ass scenes with him (they kinda got it but since it was an illusion to them it seems it doesn't count). Oh my god Luke isn't the 20 something naive, optimistic, full of life kid anymore.. well life started to dump a lot of things in his path and eventually he hit his breaking point when he was so desperate that for a split second he consider ending the evil before it got bigger but then in the process manage to accelerate that evil. He was ashamed of himself for that, he did wrong to his own family with that and rolls his eyes every time someone mentions the 'legend of Luke Skywaker'.

Then you have Yoda someone that has lived a very long life, way longer then what humans have and yet he did what ? failed to see the rise of the Sith, failed to see the fall of the Jedi and major evil across the Galaxy that resulted in many deaths. He said my bad, I'm a failure I'm just gonna go and stay grumpy and sad (just like Luke in TLJ).. but hey we just accepted that no big deal the little dude has been through a lot and in the end he still offered guidance and help (just like Luke in TLJ).

Could the execution of this have been better ? maybe why not, always room for improvement but to think this is just a major change that we have never seen in this universe is kinda silly. #notmyluke

 

[Mike]

We've all ready discussed this.. but that IS the Luke from the original trilogy. It's just not the luke from later in it. He digressed back to his original tendancies. It's all there. I've given examples previous to this & I'm surprised you brought it up again.

Well they did show what happened. You just didn't think it was enough.

You don't need more. Well.. obviously you do... but it's not needed for this movie. It's completely understandable why he is not only upset by how he handled Kylo'z attraction to the dark, but he's also unclear about his religion in general.... so now we find a Luke that's in this transitory stage.

So it all makes sense. Your gripe is NOT that it doesn't make sense. your gripe is that you don't like it & you wish they would've done something different.

IMO



That's a bit dramatic. When Luke left, everyone was fine. Now someone shows up after a couple of years & he doesn't automatically change now that his whole religion is in question & he he's in a state of confusion.

However, you leave out that he rocks up in the end.

100% Luke rocked up in the end. You nor anyone else should never mention this subject without addressing that. A person falling into depression after very traumatic events & even goes further to question the validity of his religion itself is 100% valid. If you don't like that decision for the story.. then that's your point of view... but it is not that "the story doesn't make sense."

The whole arc is stupid and pointless, when you have someone act completely contradictory to every other time we've seen them, just so they can set up this clumsy redemption arc. It doesn't MEAN anything when you get there by having a character do a complete 180 for no real reason.


And if he thought Ren was a real threat to his friends and family, and the galaxy as a whole, running off to brood alone makes no sense. That is NOT the Luke we know from the OT. If the movie is making the point he's changed, they need to SHOW that. Yet again this is why having stuff in books or other supplementary material is utterly irrelevant. Within the scope of the actual movies we are watching, so many things aren't shown or explained or given any detail.


It makes the conflict feel small and unimportant, and rushed. Because 2/3 of the way through major plot points, characters, and details important to making us feel invested in what's going on, either aren't there or aren't fleshed out. Trust us, Luke changed because we said so doesn't cut it. Hey guys, the first order is (?) more powerful than the empire was, and the republic/resistance is even tinier than the rebel group that WON the OT just because. What you want actual world building and story telling? Dont you know how to use google. That's where the rest of our story and context is. Out on the Internet somewhere. That's on you for not doing research prior to watching our flagship trilogy.

No. No, no no no no.


No.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

The whole arc is stupid and pointless, when you have someone act completely contradictory to every other time we've seen them, just so they can set up this clumsy redemption arc. It doesn't MEAN anything when you get there by having a character do a complete 180 for no real reason.


And if he thought Ren was a real threat to his friends and family, and the galaxy as a whole, running off to brood alone makes no sense. That is NOT the Luke we know from the OT. If the movie is making the point he's changed, they need to SHOW that. Yet again this is why having stuff in books or other supplementary material is utterly irrelevant. Within the scope of the actual movies we are watching, so many things aren't shown or explained or given any detail.


It makes the conflict feel small and unimportant, and rushed. Because 2/3 of the way through major plot points, characters, and details important to making us feel invested in what's going on, either aren't there or aren't fleshed out. Trust us, Luke changed because we said so doesn't cut it. Hey guys, the first order is (?) more powerful than the empire was, and the republic/resistance is even tinier than the rebel group that WON the OT just because. What you want actual world building and story telling? Dont you know how to use google. That's where the rest of our story and context is. Out on the Internet somewhere. That's on you for not doing research prior to watching our flagship trilogy.

No. No, no no no no.


No.

I got love for you... but, we just don't agree on any of this.

I'm not sure what triggered you to get off on ranting about "out of movie canon", but everything I said in the quote you were referring to was in the movie.

It's time to thin the herd though. If you aren't down with the full canon universe then we're happy to leave you back in your glory dayz... but let us have our fun & please quit dissing us for creating a new way of doing thingz.

 

[Mike]

I got love for you... but, we just don't agree on any of this. we have no reason to be in a discussion about it.

Aside from our differencez regarding that movie... I'm not sure what triggered you to get off on ranting about "out of movie canon", but everything I said in the quote you were referring to was in the movie.

It's time to thin the herd though. If you aren't down with the full canon universe then we're happy to leave you back in the your glory dayz... but let us have our fun & please quit dissing us for creating a new way of doing thingz.

Just pointing out that a lot of stuff in this movie is barely explained, or apparently properly explained somewhere else. the combination of those two things don't do this movie a lot of favors. I like EU stuff, but basic world building and plot/character details should be in the actual films.


For the bolded, you originally quoted me lol. But no, we do not seem to agree on very many things in this movie. Although I bet you like the Snoke's chamber scene, which I also liked. So, you know, there's that.

 

[Mike]

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Just pointing out that a lot of stuff in this movie is barely explained, or apparently properly explained somewhere else. the combination of those two things don't do this movie a lot of favors. I like EU stuff, but basic world building and plot/character details should be in the actual films.


For the bolded, you originally quoted me lol. But no, we do not seem to agree on very many things in this movie. Although I bet you like the Snoke's chamber scene, which I also liked. So, you know, there's that.

Yes, I did like the Snoke's chamber scene. Not even @Darth Clippy can take that away from us!!

 

[Bob Gray]

When Luke left, everyone was fine.

I guess except for his Nephew that just murdered everyone in the temple, and was being corrupted by the most insidious force in the galaxy that was only becoming stronger by the day.

He probably figured it was a phase and he'd just grow out of it.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I guess except for his Nephew that just murdered everyone in the temple, and was being corrupted by the most insidious force in the galaxy that was only becoming stronger by the day.

He probably figured it was a phase and he'd just grow out of it.

I swear, you guyz could misinturpret a wet dream. I waz talking about the state of the galaxy... which at the time was at peace.

It's not that he gave up out of not wanting to help things be better... It was that he was questioning that his involvement would make things better.

Luke Skywalker: "the legacy of the Jedi is failure."

According to him, he thought his further involvement would make things worse. he was mind fooking himself... but he got over it in the end & saved the day.

 

[90 50]

I swear, you guyz could misinturpret a wet dream. I waz talking about the state of the galaxy... which at the time was at peace.

It's not that he gave up out of not wanting to help things be better... It was that he was questioning that his involvement would make things better.

Luke Skywalker: "the legacy of the Jedi is failure."

According to him, he thought his further involvement would make things worse. he was mind fooking himself... but he got over it in the end & saved the day.

He didn’t really save anything though, he potentially delayed it for a few minutes.

The rag tag group in the falcon is still gonna have to face off against the tie fighters escaping the planet and the rest of the fleet in orbit.

And they will chase them.

Now if he had shown up in person and started force lifting and throwing walkers around like was originally intended according to Hamill, that might have been saving the day.

He just delayed some shit.

So , For all the Vader haters out there, the first order is still coming to blow your planet up.











“We got Death Star, we got Death Star, and you know that we got it”