STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Myrddin Wild]

Man the movies would have been waaaaay better if they went into this backstory. It's pretty interesting.

I wish they would've for all the people who don't follow the extra canon & I've seen this point of view several times... like they really wanted to see Snoke's back story in the movie. Personally, I don't see any difference in getting the backstory through Wookieepedia.com or if it's in the movie.

The movie does not require Snoke's back story. It's just a big curiosity at best... & it didn't help that we were given our first Star Wars movie in a decade & then we all sat around for 2 years salivating about who Snoke was only to have the story not told to us on film. I think more than anything... that is the biggest problem. We were just so front loaded about him being a major character when he was only a tool to put Kylo into power.

If we never get anything more in the films... I'm personally fine... because the films don't need his back story. As a fan though, I want to know it... & so I'm also fine if we get it in another canon outlet. It would be nice though for the people who only watch the movies... to get their fix regarding Snoke in the final movie of the trilogy. Fingerz crossed for them, but like I said, I'm personally fine no matter what outlet that story is told.

 

[chickenluver]

lol at these people's trolling. The best they can hope for is to make a decent fan fiction youtube yeah? & if that's the case... then just do it like everyone else does. I suppose they're trying to hype it up though, so whatevz...

Better than the shit fan fiction that is Disney Star Wars

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Oh I agree, it could should be portrayed better. Before Infintiy War, I had no clue about Thanos, but he’s this destroyer, beats the shit outta Hulk, I assume there’s a back story.

OMG EVz... you just spoke blasphomy about the holy grail.

Don't you know that it's okay to sh*t on Star Wars but the Marvel elitists will have none of this stuff about their new holy movie being criticized. I'm pretty sure your account will be banned after this

Spoiler

 

[GtehMVP]

Nope... his only goal was to get Rey out of trouble & then split.

Poe isn't the one who knew how to shut down their hyperspace tracking system yeah?
You seem to be going a bit dramatic here. maybe you just don't like the character. Perhaps you don't like black people or women? Just playing. (maybe, unless its true)

I find Finn's story to be a nice addition to both films. Through his eyes you get a feel for who are the good guys & who are the bad guys. It's obvious who we're being sold who the bad guys are, but when Kylo kills innocent villagers & Finn reacts... you know "why"... & when Rose tells Finn about the slavery, child abuse, & corruption you know "why."

He was a dedicated storm trouper who is slowly but steadily being turned to first defecting, to helping his friend despite just wanting to run away... to finally joining the Rebel cause full on to the point that he was willing to sacrifice himself. Finn's arc is a key narrative to the whole war.

It's shown in the movie very well imo.... but anyone who doesn't understand the depth of this could get more insight from the books. The novels actually explain how a lot of people don't care about who the leader is... & they don't understand the war or care about it. Many have problems with the way the New Republic runs things.

So at some point you need a narrative to show why the First Order is the bad guys... & that story is told through Finn. The narrative on Canto Bight is important, because despite the way people think they do not care who rules them... they would certainly care double quick if they were the slave kid being beaten. They would certainly care if they were in the Kessel mines enslaved to work. They would certainly care if they came home to Tattoine & their entire village was laying their dead... & they had to pick up pieces of their mother & Grandmother & try to sort out which pieces belonged to which so that they could put them into the proper grave.

I'm being a bit graphic here to show the importance of this arc.

@One MMA Fan @EvilDDS

You're right about one thing, I had no love for the Rose character, and that had nothing to do with race/gender. I didn't care for any of them in TLJ really, save for Kylo a bit, they were all terribly written. Rose did help Finn figure out how they could shut down the tracker, but they were pretty much finishing each other's sentences. She brought nothing important to the table, at least not enough to warrant so much airtime. It was only fitting she crashed into Finn , in what was the dumbest moment in the film, really sums up her character.

As for Finn, I already felt like he was full on Rebel after this moment in TFA.

Any extra growth Finn developed on Canto was muddled by bad writing. Look at those evil one dimensional war profiteering capitalists and their slave kids/space horses. It just fell flat.

I keep seeing people talk about how they need to read the books to fully comprehend the "depth" in TLJ and TFA. I really like how the books describe the first Order's ascent, it's pretty damn compelling. It reminds me of how great Palpatine's rise is if you can decipher it between the shitty writing and pacing in Ep 1/2.

I'm sure there are far more examples where backstories are fleshed out in the books. We never get that where it should count though, which is in the films. The first order never feels like a great threat. Their attack from Starkiller in TFA carried no impact, despite killing billions. We knew nothing about them, how could we care.

A two minute past tense montage of the first order's rise to power would have done a world of good. It's only made worse in TLJ when they are made to look like a farce. Hux is a cartoon character. Kylo, despite some teases at growth, goes back to whiny emo, and Snoke's run ends anticlimactically.

Do you really care about what's going to happen next? WHat exactly are you excited to see after TLJ? I didn't like TFA that much, same for the Phantom Menace and Clone Wars, but I was still excited to see the next film. I'm curious to see if JJ salvage anything out of the mess Rian left him, but that's about it.

 

[chickenluver]

Boba had a worse depiction on film I think.

Nah guy. In Empire he was the bounty hunter with the most dangerous reputation, hence Vader telling him specifically "no disintegrations." He was the only bounty hunter smart enough to wait around for the Imperial fleet to leave to find the Falcon hiding on the side of one of the star destroyers, he waited in the trash heap just like the Falcon had been, with his ship powered down, and he tracked them to Bespin. He's the reason the Empire were able to ambush on Han and Leia on Bespin and set their trap for Luke. He hears Luke draw his weapon on Bespin indicated by a slight turn of his head, later turning back to hit Luke with the surprise attack. He constantly bitches to Vader about the money he's due, and Vader doesn't tell him to fuck off or kill him, he treats him with respect and promises compensation if Han dies. He's a minor character, but still a great character in Empire.

Now in Return of the Jedi he doesn't do anything and dies in a comical fashion, so that's a disappointment, as is much of that movie.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Better than the shit fan fiction that is Disney Star Wars

Brother EVz you owe me 10 bucks. i told you i could draw a response out of this M. f*cker with one post.



@EvilDDS @One MMA Fan

 

[EvilDDS]

Nah guy. In Empire he was the bounty hunter with the most dangerous reputation, hence Vader telling him specifically "no disintegrations." He was the only bounty hunter smart enough to wait around for the Imperial fleet to leave to find the Falcon hiding on the side of one of the star destroyers, he waited in the trash heap just like the Falcon had been, with his ship powered down, and he tracked them to Bespin. He's the reason the Empire were able to ambush on Han and Leia on Bespin and set their trap for Luke. He constantly bitches to Vader about the money he's due, and Vader doesn't tell him to fuck off or kill him, he treats him with respect and promises compensation if Han dies. He's a minor character, but still a great character in Empire.

Now in Return of the Jedi he doesn't do anything and dies in a comical fashion, so that's a disappointment, as is much of that movie.

I love boba, have the Variant Play Arts figures, but again back story. Did you read that 40 short stories on the Boba situation? Kinda funny Explains why Boba is pissed at Vader

 

[chickenluver]

Brother EVz you owe me 10 bucks. i told you i could draw a response out of this M. f*cker with one post.



@EvilDDS @One MMA Fan

Funny coming from the guy who's in here every time anyone says anything bad about this movie or anything Star Wars related.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Any extra growth Finn developed on Canto was muddled by bad writing. Look at those evil one dimensional war profiteering capitalists and their slave kids/space horses. It just fell flat.

It hit home for me on first viewing.

I'm sure there are far more examples where backstories are fleshed out in the books. We never get that where it should count though, which is in the films. The first order never feels like a great threat. Their attack from Starkiller in TFA carried no impact, despite killing billions. We knew nothing about them, how could we care.

I don't get this at all. I went into TFA with no prior outside Canon knowledge & I felt their power. I didn't need the backstory.

I didn't need the back story to Thanos rolling up & beating the sh*t out of Hulk. I was just like... "okay... this dude is a bad ass." That's all you really need to know. I mean once they wiped out those planets & showed that they're moving in... you then have all you need to know. It was only after watching that movie that I started looking into the new modern Canon.

A two minute past tense montage of the first order's rise to power would have done a world of good. It's only made worse in TLJ when they are made to look like a farce. Hux is a cartoon character. Kylo, despite some teases at growth, goes back to whiny emo, and Snoke's run ends anticlimactically.

I didn't get that at all. The leader was Snoke.... & the new leader is Kylo who's a disturbed psychopath now in control of the biggest military force in the galaxy. Soundz like the makingz of a pretty sweet conclusion to me.

Do you really care about what's going to happen next? WHat exactly are you excited to see after TLJ? I didn't like TFA that much, same for the Phantom Menace and Clone Wars, but I was still excited to see the next film. I'm curious to see if JJ salvage anything out of the mess Rian left him, but that's about it.

I've been asked this so many times that I just made an "all inclusive" essay about it & so I will link you to that here.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/141603485/

It's pretty in depth & brings in a lot of Canon that's not in the movie... & so anyone who doesn't spend a lot of time with "non-movie" stuff can be streamlined by taking a bit of time to read this.

 

[Mike]

I wish they would've for all the people who don't follow the extra canon & I've seen this point of view several times... like they really wanted to see Snoke's back story in the movie. Personally, I don't see any difference in getting the backstory through Wookieepedia.com or if it's in the movie.

The movie does not require Snoke's back story. It's just a big curiosity at best... & it didn't help that we were given our first Star Wars movie in a decade & then we all sat around for 2 years salivating about who Snoke was only to have the story not told to us on film. I think more than anything... that is the biggest problem. We were just so front loaded about him being a major character when he was only a tool to put Kylo into power.

If we never get anything more in the films... I'm personally fine... because the films don't need his back story. As a fan though, I want to know it... & so I'm also fine if we get it in another canon outlet. It would be nice though for the people who only watch the movies... to get their fix regarding Snoke in the final movie of the trilogy. Fingerz crossed for them, but like I said, I'm personally fine no matter what outlet that story is told.

Well he's portrayed as if he's going to be the central antagonist. And I think that was the plan before Johnson. But his backstory is all the more important imo, if he's going to be killed off before we learn more about the character. Burying essential lore outside of the main story is always a fail imo. For example when Alien covenant put backstories for all the characters in youtube clips. I think that's fine as supplemental info, but I don't think it's acceptable to put stuff like core character motivations and relationshis in extra material if the main story isn't going to address it at all.


All of the characters in that movie are married couples, and you get the feeling they MUST have done to to increase our investment in them, and to make it meaningful when characters lose a spouse. But since most of it's buried offscreen, when someone dies you just go meh.... which one was that again? Oh well he's dead now doesn't matter I suppose.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Funny coming from the guy who's in here every time anyone says anything bad about this movie or anything Star Wars related.

lol... you just say whatever you think is trollworthy don't you?

Dude, I haven't been in here in a couple of weeks. The only reason I came in here is because someone tagged me & so I spent a little time going through the thread.

I'm sorry if I ruffled y'allz hater club featherz leading up to Solo & made you haters look like a bunch of casuals but it had to be done... but I'm over it now. I've given the thread back to you... but that doesn't mean I won't stop in from time to time & kick you in the ass a bit for old times sake yeah?

 

[GtehMVP]

It hit home for me on first viewing.
I don't get this at all. I went into TFA with no prior outside Canon knowledge & I felt their power. I didn't need the backstory.

I didn't need the back story to Thanos rolling up & beating the sh*t out of Hulk. I was just like... "okay... this dude is a bad ass." That's all you really need to know. I mean once they wiped out those planets & showed that they're moving in... you then have all you need to know. It was only after watching that movie that I started looking into the new modern Canon.
I didn't get that at all. The leader was Snoke.... & the new leader is Kylo who's a disturbed psychopath now in control of the biggest military force in the galaxy. Soundz like the makingz of a pretty sweet conclusion to me.


I've been asked this so many times that I just made an "all inclusive" essay about it & so I will link you to that here.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/141603485/

It's pretty in depth & brings in a lot of Canon that's not in the movie... & so anyone who doesn't spend a lot of time with "non-movie" stuff can be streamlined by taking a bit of time to read this.

Thanks man, I'll def take a look at it.

I haven't seen Infinity War yet ( i haven't seen a spoiler yet somehow), I'm still getting over a damn busted leg, so I can't compare. I already knew who Thanos was too. I really like how ey has handled the MCU for the most part, so I'm sure he did a good job. From trailers it looks like he toys with established badass characters, so It probably helped non comic fans grasp how dangerous he is.

We're def going to disagree on the new sequel. I think it's hot hollow garbage, but I'm glad you were able to enjoy it!

 

[chickenluver]

OMG EVz... you just spoke blasphomy about the holy grail.

Don't you know that it's okay to sh*t on Star Wars but the Marvel elitists will have none of this stuff about their new holy movie being criticized. I'm pretty sure your account will be banned after this

There's criticism of the marvel movies in every thread on them. Quit being so over the top.

I love boba, have the Variant Play Arts figures, but again back story. Did you read that 40 short stories on the Boba situation? Kinda funny Explains why Boba is pissed at Vader

He doesn't need backstory. He's pissed at Vader because he's worried he'll lose his big payday. That's the way the script was written.

Are you talking about From a Certain Point of View? I'm not interested in the Disney canon. And how are they going to include Boba Fett in a collection of stories about characters from the original film, for the 40th anniversary, when Boba wasn't even in the original film?

 

[ChucksGlassJaw]

After it's Netflix release, TLJ's audience score has dropped to 46% on Rotten Tomatoes. It's just sad at this point.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Well he's portrayed as if he's going to be the central antagonist. And I think that was the plan before Johnson. But his backstory is all the more important imo, if he's going to be killed off before we learn more about the character. Burying essential lore outside of the main story is always a fail imo. For example when Alien covenant put backstories for all the characters in youtube clips. I think that's fine as supplemental info, but I don't think it's acceptable to put stuff like core character motivations and relationshis in extra material if the main story isn't going to address it at all.


All of the characters in that movie are married couples, and you get the feeling they MUST have done to to increase our investment in them, and to make it meaningful when characters lose a spouse. But since most of it's buried offscreen, when someone dies you just go meh.... which one was that again? Oh well he's dead now doesn't matter I suppose.

I see what your saying... & I do agree that some backstory would've been nice, but I think the only reason the Snoke info is so important is because we sat around for 2 years thinking about it.

If someone were to watch the 2 movies back to back for the first time, they'd get it. They'd be curious for the Snoke back story... but it wouldn't become the necessity that it became for us who sat around for 2 years discussing it.

All that canon stuff I told y'all about that wasn't in the movie... you don't need any of it to understand how this upper middle class kid became the leader of the biggest military force in the galaxy. That part was explained to perfection. I don't think even the biggest star wars casual has any problem understanding that. So Snoke's purpose is achieved. His back story is completely inessential to the plot & is only a curiosity at best.

 

[chickenluver]

Personally, I don't see any difference in getting the backstory through Wookieepedia.com or if it's in the movie.

That's because you know nothing about movies

 

[EvilDDS]

There's criticism of the marvel movies in every thread on them. Quit being so over the top.

He doesn't need backstory. He's pissed at Vader because he's worried he'll lose his big payday. That's the way the script was written.

Are you talking about From a Certain Point of View? I'm not interested in the Disney canon. And how are they going to include Boba Fett in a collection of stories about characters from the original film, for the 40th anniversary, when Boba wasn't even in the original film?

Hay I get it, all it takes is a line from Vader to establish his bad ass-ness! Maybe if they wrote a line for phasma then people would accept her better.
Boba is the man, quiet confidence, just hate the way he went out !

 

[Myrddin Wild]

After it's Netflix release, TLJ's audience score has dropped to 46% on Rotten Tomatoes. It's just sad at this point.

What's sad is people taking Rotton Tomatoes seriously. lol...

 

[ChucksGlassJaw]

What's sad is people taking Rotton Tomatoes seriously. lol...

You don't have to reply to every post in this thread. Stop being so insecure, ya weirdo.

 

[Mike]

I see what your saying... & I do agree that some backstory would've been nice, but I think the only reason the Snoke info is so important is because we sat around for 2 years thinking about it.

If someone were to watch the 2 movies back to back for the first time, they'd get it. They'd be curious for the Snoke back story... but it wouldn't become the necessity that it became for us who sat around for 2 years discussing it.

All that canon stuff I told y'all about that wasn't in the movie... you don't need any of it to understand how this upper middle class kid became the leader of the biggest military force in the galaxy. That part was explained to perfection. I don't think even the biggest star wars casual has any problem understanding that. So Snoke's purpose is achieved. His back story is completely inessential to the plot & is only a curiosity at best.

Well I mean Snoke and The First Order are just kind of there. They make little effort to really explain where they're from, how they became such a big threat. Just a few flashbacks of Snoke organizing them, meeting Luke, manipulating Kylo when he was lukes protege, would have gone a long way. As it is the movie relies on these relationships for the payoff to mean anything, but shows us very little onscreen to make us care.