STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[90 50]

Abrams could have made Finn not shit or he could have made Kylo more than just a less-hateable Anakin, for starters. Sometimes the next guy ends up having to polish turds.

I think abrams was trying to show Finn was force sensitive and could also become a jedi later, but rian killed that.

 

[jlagman]

In SW just because something is set up as a suicede mission doesn’t mean they don’t get out of it.

Flying into asteroid fields, attacking a Death Star with a tie fighter, you get the point.


On another topic, with the hate for poes funny quirk lines they missed the best opertunity for one

Leia: You can’t just hop into an x-wing and blow shit up
Poe: isn’t that what your brother is famous for?

Perhaps you're right, maybe I didn't watch Rogue One as a "Star Wars fan", rather, as a movie goer who saw that "twist" coming from a mile away.

 

[jlagman]

I think abrams was trying to show Finn was force sensitive and could also become a jedi later, but rian killed that.

Because...he found the "on button" on a lightsaber?

 

[90 50]

Because...he found the "on button" on a lightsaber?

Because Kylo senses something in him, because he looks “awakened by something” on Tatooine, uh I mean jakku

There are things like that, not Nessisarily because he could use a lightsaber(curiously well with no training)

Kylo obviously knows him, it’s possible he felt the force sensitivity earlier and had trained him on how to use it some. It seemed like he had done it before.

But that’s just speculation

 

[Magooglie]

I don't know how creative she is -- I think her main strength is knowing the audience, not just the STAR WARS audience, but everyone and endeavoring to expand the mythos so that everyone can feel like they've got an avatar within the universe. It's not that we couldn't already do this with the pre-established White-ass characters, but the fact is there's no reason that STAR WARS needs to keep its cast homogeneous.

I think trying to be diverse is an admirable trait. But I wouldn't call it a strength just yet. Whoever is making Fast and Furious movies beats her in the diversity department. Her historical strength being a producer is probably administration and organization. Feige is an anomaly so it's not like it's easy to find another one.

 

[minute bull]

speculation

To tell the truth, speculation is a middling byproduct of Abrams' "Mystery Box" storytelling style. Audiences can't help but to expect more from his imagery; it's designed for maximum intrigue but precious little pay-off. That's why he belongs on television.

I think trying to be diverse is an admirable trait. But I wouldn't call it a strength just yet. Whoever is making Fast and Furious movies beats her in the diversity department. Her historical strength being a producer is probably administration and organization. Feige is an anomaly so it's not like it's easy to find another one.

That's so weird to me, because to me all Feige does is masquerade behind a nice-guy face while making everyone toe a very safe line. What people seem to overlook about the MCU is all its stories have already been written, so now it's just a matter of jazzing up this or that revamp. The hard part's done, and grants AUTOMATIC familiarity/nostalgia.

STAR WARS is creating new territory.

 

[jlagman]

But that’s just speculation

Which is one of the things, IMO, that are ruining people's film experiences.

 

[da1nonlyBAYCAT]

i think my original rating was an 8 or something, but now that I've thought about it more it's more like a 5

 

[jlagman]

To tell the truth, speculation is a middling byproduct of Abrams' "Mystery Box" storytelling style. Audiences can't help but to expect more from his imagery; it's designed for maximum intrigue but precious little pay-off. That's why he belongs on television.


That's so weird to me, because to me all Feige does is masquerade behind a nice-guy face while making everyone toe a very safe line. What people seem to overlook about the MCU is all its stories have already been written, so now it's just a matter of jazzing up this or that revamp. The hard part's done, and grants AUTOMATIC familiarity/nostalgia.

STAR WARS is creating new territory.

I'd go as far as to also blame the likes of the MCU and the Hollywood trend of universe/franchise building, for people having such expectations.

 

[90 50]

To tell the truth, speculation is a middling byproduct of Abrams' "Mystery Box" storytelling style. Audiences can't help but to expect more from his imagery; it's designed for maximum intrigue but precious little pay-off. That's why he belongs on television.


That's so weird to me, because to me all Feige does is masquerade behind a nice-guy face while making everyone toe a very safe line. What people seem to overlook about the MCU is all its stories have already been written, so now it's just a matter of jazzing up this or that revamp. The hard part's done, and grants AUTOMATIC familiarity/nostalgia.

STAR WARS is creating new territory.

Lucas already had written 7-9 pretty much, just they sucked from a certain point of view and Disney didn’t follow it.

You can read them online, page turners they were not.

I’ll have to dig around in the attic, im pretty sure I still have all my bantha tracks newsletters. Even way back in the 80’s he said he had the complete story plotted out. Just not full scripts then.


But what they should fucking do, is hire lucas’s Ex wife, she’s the one who made the originals good.

She left him half way throug Jedi, and that’s when the turn to Ewoks (jar jar etc etc ) shit started.

 

[90 50]

We went from lines like

“ I love you”, “I know”

To

“I crashed into you and risked everyone’s lives because I have jungle fever”

 

[Deleted member 110072]

It served the bones of the entire plot of Rogue One; the Empire created a super weapon, we have to send spies on a suicide mission. The thing about cinematic suicide missions, is that the audience should care about those characters and what good is that if the characters were blandly written and acted, with most of their deaths being pretty meaningless?

How much does that cheapen the suspense of the first appearance of the Death Star in ANH and Leia's reaction to the destruction of Alderaan?

No, the video you posted is from Return of the Jedi and is referencing stealing the plans to the 2nd deathstar which the Emperor allowed to take place to lure the rebels in, its not referencing events in Rogue One which are mentioned in the opening crawl of the original as the rebels "first victory".

So again I don't see any foregone conclusion that everyone dies but also again even if that was the case it doesn't remove dramatic tension, a great many films forshadow or directly reveal there endings and still have tension.

 

[minute bull]

But what they should fucking do, is hire lucas’s Ex wife, she’s the one who made the originals good.

She left him half way throug Jedi, and that’s when the turn to Ewoks (jar jar etc etc ) shit started.

Do you mean Gary Kurtz?

Because you'd be 100% correct, except for the wife part, and I would lose my shit if Disney brought him back.

 

[90 50]

Do you mean Gary Kurtz?

Because you'd be 100% correct, except for the wife part, and I would lose my shit if Disney brought him back.

There are numerous documentaries citing his wife being the one to rein his silly ass in on his ideas, especially with new hope.

After she left him his ass went back and added silly shit to it.

That bitch should have put up with his shit and never left the kitchen accept to help keep the sillyness down.she wouldn’t taken one for the team

 

[Magooglie]

That's so weird to me, because to me all Feige does is masquerade behind a nice-guy face while making everyone toe a very safe line. What people seem to overlook about the MCU is all its stories have already been written, so now it's just a matter of jazzing up this or that revamp. The hard part's done, and grants AUTOMATIC familiarity/nostalgia.

STAR WARS is creating new territory.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees with that statement. Feige has guided a very comprehensive, elaborate, complex, interconnected, and ultimately enjoyable experience for the Marvel fans. Sure Mark Millar probably deserves a lot of credit too, but Feige has done an immense job. Who else has a credit like that? Not DC, not Fox. If we're talking a sequential series of new material, Fast and Furious beats Kathleen Kennedy on that level too.

 

[90 50]

No, the video you posted is from Return of the Jedi and is referencing stealing the plans to the 2nd deathstar which the Emperor allowed to take place to lure the rebels in, its not referencing events in Rogue One which are mentioned in the opening crawl of the original as the rebels "first victory".

So again I don't see any foregone conclusion that everyone dies but also again even if that was the case it doesn't remove dramatic tension, a great many films forshadow or directly reveal there endings and still have tension.

Eggzachery

<{monica}>

 

[jlagman]

No, the video you posted is from Return of the Jedi and is referencing stealing the plans to the 2nd deathstar which the Emperor allowed to take place to lure the rebels in, its not referencing events in Rogue One which are mentioned in the opening crawl of the original as the rebels "first victory".

So again I don't see any foregone conclusion that everyone dies but also again even if that was the case it doesn't remove dramatic tension, a great many films forshadow or directly reveal there endings and still have tension.

Again, maybe I didn't watch it as a "Star Wars fan" and maybe I saw it as a movie goer who noticed a predictable pattern early on in the narrative and was ultimately not won over by the blandly written and acted characters who, I foresaw, having to make "ultimate sacrifices" by the end. Maybe I never felt the tension, because I needed to give a shit about the characters, but didn't.

Maybe, the only mildly redeemable aspect of the film was Darth Vader's cameo, before suddenly vanishing after realizing how much physical degradation there must have been between RO and ANH. Try watching them back-to-back sometime and notice how Vader goes from flashy lightsaber user to being an old guy poking another old guy with a stick.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

LOL. "Daddy, can we put in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK." Great kid there.

What's Jyn's physical weakness? Is it looking like Eddie Redmayne? Was it the limp at the end there? I'm discounting what you say for comedic effect, so don't get me wrong -- but at the same time I'm not one who prescribes to the idea Rey is a Mary Sue, especially in TLJ -- which pits her against some real turmoil, inner and outer.

The only real difference I can tell is we get to see Jyn be abandoned while Rey's history is preferred as a mystery.

Physically she's obviously far less competent than Rey who barely ever needs the help of anyone else, not just in instant force abitlies but say becoming an ace pilot with 30 seconds flying time in the Falcon. She's not incompetent but even within her own group Chirrut and Baze are clearly more competant and she's saved several times by others which I think brings a lot more tension.

Morally she's basically a selfish cynic at the start of the film only interested in looking out for herself which obviously gives her room to develop into a more selfless hero.

That's certainly true, but I'm not trying to establish a hierarchy of pandering here. It's more of the discrepancy of why R1 gets the pass that TLJ absolutely doesn't.

If anything I would say Rogue One got it more at the time of release with that Red Letter media ATST! ATST! ATST! video which was ridiculously hypocritical compared to the free ride they gave Abrams film the following year for more extreme examples.

To me the difference is really that Rogue One tries to recreate the whole setting of the originals with a lot of smaller details were as TFA takes a small handful of the best known ones and pushes that right in your face as much as possible.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Again, maybe I didn't watch it as a "Star Wars fan" and maybe I saw it as a movie goer who noticed a predictable pattern early on in the narrative and was ultimately not won over by the blandly written and acted characters who, I foresaw, having to make "ultimate sacrifices" by the end. Maybe I never felt the tension, because I needed to give a shit about the characters, but didn't.

Maybe, the only mildly redeemable aspect of the film was Darth Vader's cameo, before suddenly vanishing after realizing how much physical degradation there must have been between RO and ANH. Try watching them back-to-back sometime and notice how Vader goes from flashy lightsaber user to being an old guy poking another old guy with a stick.

Your just wrong that the film was dealing with a foregone conclusion in the characters fates, it was dealing with a foregone conclusion that the plans would be stolen of course but again this is hardly the daming criticism you seem to think it is, every film based on a major historical event is a waste of time by this standard.

As far as the characters go again to me it depends on what you want, no they weren't all Marvel/Abrams style characters with sass on demand every 15 seconds but then again neither were the characters in the original, I did find most of them to have a good deal of personality though and some of the banter was actually entertaining unlike the prequels/sequels silly attempts at humour.

I'm not really seeing the issue with Vader myself, look at his fight with Luke in Empire Strikes back and it seems pretty similar to me depending on the same brutal style, no prequels backflips here. The only difference is we see him deflecting some blaster bolts for the first time, when he's actually hacking the rebels up though its very much the same brutal chops as the originals.

 

[minute bull]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees with that statement. Feige has guided a very comprehensive, elaborate, complex, interconnected, and ultimately enjoyable experience for the Marvel fans. Sure Mark Millar probably deserves a lot of credit too, but Feige has done an immense job. Who else has a credit like that? Not DC, not Fox. If we're talking a sequential series of new material, Fast and Furious beats Kathleen Kennedy on that level too.

Physically she's obviously far less competent than Rey who barely ever needs the help of anyone else, not just in instant force abitlies but say becoming an ace pilot with 30 seconds flying time in the Falcon. She's not incompetent but even within her own group Chirrut and Baze are clearly moreso and she's saved several times but others which I think brings a lot more tension.

That's not a physical weakness, that's a comparison.

Morally she's basically a selfish cynic at the start of the film only interested in looking out for herself which obviously gives her room to develop into a more selfless hero.

And this is Jyn or Rey? Mind syntax. We got a lot of people here biting off a lot more than they can chew, choking on their own bile. You don't want to be one of them.

Red Letter media

Those fucking cans. Make another hostage spoof; it's so funny.

To me the difference is really that Rogue One tries to recreate the whole setting of the originals with a lot of smaller details were as TFA takes a small handful of the best known ones and pushes that right in your face as much as possible.

Story vs Images. I see the dilemma.