STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[minute bull]

The finger clicking seemed a little too on the nose for me but otherwise I did like that sequence and indeed a good deal of the Rey/Kylo scenes which I think is really what makes it a frustrating film. Force Awakens for me was simply meh, it was passable entertainment but there was very little there(really only Kylo/Han) that hinted at something more so it was rather hard to suggest improvements. Last Jedi I think has some of the ideas that could have made for a great film yet ultimately misses the mark too often and backs away from them.

I couldn't find the picture I wanted, which was Rey approaching the foggy glass.

I do appreciate what you're saying because my chief complaint of Nolan's BAT-verse is that too many mistakes spoil what should have been a great iteration. And I also readily admit I would need to go back and relinquish my notions of how a "real" Batman should be depicted, and understand that Nolan ISN'T exactly going for naturalism at all.

 

[minute bull]

Oh and guys? We may be in for a little trouble here.

Denis Villeneuve Says His DUNE Will Be ‘STAR WARS For Adults’

 

[Bob Gray]

My defense is that it's self-doubt that's bothering him. Not that he couldn't save Kylo, and not that he brandished the lightsaber at him -- it was that moment of doubt that sent him spiraling into Beggar's canyon.

Seems like we're just gonna be reiterating our previous statements at this point. But i'll just say this again, I'll totally buy this. Absolutely, hook line and sinker, I'm there for the ride. IF they could sell me on Kylos whatever the hell it was that scared Luke so badly. Since they couldnt for reasons I've already said, at that point I'm existing outside of the movie and looking in critically instead of being drawn in and experiencing it.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Oh and guys? We may be in for a little trouble here.

Denis Villeneuve Says His DUNE Will Be ‘STAR WARS For Adults’

I'd agree with him that theres a lot of Dune in Starwars that doesn't get commented on as often as perhaps it should, Dune and Lord of the Rings with some Samurai and Western elements sums it up pretty well I'd say.

I enjoyed the Bladerunner sequel but honestly I did think Villeneuve was a little bit of a mismatch there, he just felt rather too cold in style for me compared to the noir romance of the original yet I can see that style being very effective with Dune.

The big challenge really is going to take it beyond being a heroic fantasy scifi? are your going to deal with the more advanced philosophy and the implications of being able to see the future?

 

[minute bull]

at that point I'm existing outside of the movie and looking in critically instead of being drawn in and experiencing it.

I know that feeling all too well.

A friend of mine used to be sad that I perceived films in such analytical layers, and it's true teachers of screenwriting will often say the more you know about the mechanics the more the errors will stand out and affect your viewing pleasure. Overtime, this has gone the opposite way for me; overtime I enjoy movies more this way because I am more able to forgive mistakes and shortcomings. Effectively, not getting lost in the experience, or perhaps in this case the nega-experience. I can focus more on what the movie endeavors to achieve, though it may fail, and take it from that standpoint.

IF they could sell me on Kylos whatever the hell it was that scared Luke so badly.

But but but it wasn't Kylo, it was Luke that scared Luke so badly. Kylo was the inciting action but is only incidental.

So what you're saying is you're never gonna be on board with this.

I enjoyed the Bladerunner sequel but honestly I did think Villeneuve was a little bit of a mismatch there, he just felt rather too cold in style for me compared to the noir romance of the original yet I can see that style being very effective with Dune.

Do you say that because of Villeneuve or are we both agreeing that DUNE is a daunting task to bring onscreen?

The big challenge really is going to take it beyond being a heroic fantasy scifi? are your going to deal with the more advanced philosophy and the implications of being able to see the future?

For me, Villeneuve doesn't exist on themes but rather moments of tension. He is for me a directorial equivalent of an awesome page-turner. The world will be filled I'm sure, but what I want to experience is his pulse-by-pulse narrative.

 

[Bob Gray]

Oh and guys? We may be in for a little trouble here.

Denis Villeneuve Says His DUNE Will Be ‘STAR WARS For Adults’

 

[chickenluver]

I think the problem of Han going back to being a smuggler is that he was living in a world with a restored Republic. He couldn't get a real job? Why would he go back to being a criminal?

 

[minute bull]

I think the problem of Han going back to being a smuggler is that he was living in a world with a restored Republic. He couldn't get a real job? Why would he go back to being a criminal?

Your timing doesn't work, since Kylo at that point was seduced by JJ Snookums, which means THIS is somewhere along the way of reverting the power balance of ROTJ back to ANH. [/devil's advocate]

And playing devil's advocate myself: I suppose I could argue Han reverting to his devil-may-care attitude is a cover-up for losing his son, even though touching Ren on the face is a weak punctuation on that line of thinking.

 

[chickenluver]

Your timing doesn't work, since Kylo at that point was seduced by JJ Snookums, which means THIS is somewhere along the way of reverting the power balance of ROTJ back to ANH. [/devil's advocate]

And playing devil's advocate myself: I suppose I could argue Han reverting to his devil-may-care attitude is a cover-up for losing his son, even though touching Ren on the face is a weak punctuation on that line of thinking.

Yeah I agree with that. The problem for me is I don't think reverting every back to the original film was a good idea in the first place.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

If Disney was smart they would let Denis V m. direct a movie instead of that wanna be Kubrick hack Rian Johnson.


The difference between both directors is staggering. One belongs on tv the other directs amazing movies

 

[minute bull]

Yeah I agree with that. The problem for me is I don't think reverting every back to the original film was a good idea in the first place.

I won't argue that, but it does expose the difficulty of a sequel. How much can we really change? It's simpler for SPACE OPERA, which is designed to have sprawling epic world-building, but even then sequels have to retain trappings of the original. As an extreme example, Quarritch is returning as the AVATAR villain partly because Stephen Lang created a lot of the film's appeal.

If Disney was smart they would let Denis V m. direct a movie instead of that wanna be Kubrick hack Rian Johnson.


The difference between both directors is staggering. One belongs on tv the other directs amazing movies

Ridley Scott all but lobbied himself. And I'm not yet to the point saying Rian Johnson belongs in television, especially when Abrams is in this particular mix. LOOPER is essentially Rian's STAR WARS movie, just like STAR TREK was Abramseseses'.

 

[chickenluver]

I won't argue that, but it does expose the difficulty of a sequel. How much can we really change?

Indeed. Kind of a problem with cinematic universes in general.

As an extreme example, Quarritch is returning as the AVATAR villain partly because Stephen Lang created a lot of the film's appeal.

What happened in the first? Did he die in such a way that bringing him back is a full blown retcon?

Maybe he'll be in a Darth Vader-esque life suit.

 

[minute bull]

What happened in the first? Did he die in such a way that bringing him back is a full blown retcon?

Maybe he'll be in a Darth Vader-esque life suit.

THREE GIANT ARROWS TO THE CHESSSS I believe it was. Tis but a scratch.

Sigourney coming back, too, but yeah Tree of Bullshit on the Rocks of Bullshit whatever.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

I'm actually surprised it's not doing well in China. Western culture losing its luster out there I guess.

 

[Hogey]

I'm actually surprised it's not doing well in China. Western culture losing its luster out there I guess.

I was under the impression that Star Wars has never done that well in china.

 

[chickenluver]

I'm actually surprised it's not doing well in China. Western culture losing its luster out there I guess.

It's because the previous films were never released there. Maybe the prequels were, not sure.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

I'm actually surprised it's not doing well in China. Western culture losing its luster out there I guess.

there is a near 500 million difference in foreign total intake between TFA and TLJ. more than half that sum is from 4 countries, UAE, China, Japan and Germany.

350 million difference domestically.

I don't think it has anything to do with western culture. the movie was just not good

 

[Strange King]

I guess I’m frustrated that literally everything Luke fought for was ultimately empty.
The Empire was replaced by the First Order. Palpatine was replaced by Snoke. Vader was replaced by Ren. He didn’t balance the Force. He didn’t rebuild the Jedi.
It just seems pointless.

if luke didnt succeed would of snoke been the emperors nemisis

 

[Tiny]

Check you out.

The comparison is between portrayals of Luke and Han, and I don't think Han got this level of blowback. You guys weren't putting your lightsabers to your wrists back then.

It's really curious to me because I feel TLJ is markedly superior to TFA in most areas, but mostly because I feel they tread almost comically similar ground.

Han wasn't written nearly as out of character as Luke was. I mean realistically he should have left Leia almost immediately after pregnancy. As I'd certainly peg him to get antsy and grow restless soon after the dust settled and hum drum relationship life kicked in. And the last thing I ever wanted to see was grandpa Solo jiggling loose change in his pockets for his grandchildren.

So going back to smuggling (the outfit he would likely most feel comfortable in) isn't out of character at all. The bad jokes? Yeah...that's bad. Getting killed at the end? Meh. He should have died in RoTJ to give that story some weight. Han's character was never meant to be the 'happily ever after' type he was shoe horned in.

But let's look at how this all played out after the epic 3 part (6 if you count the shitquels) storyline to finally topple the bad guys...

After a mere 20 years has passed;

- the rebels are back on the run
- the empire is even bigger than it was
- Luke has become a sloth milk drinking coward
- Han has gone back to smuggling
- Leia is still on the run.

Oh good! Why the fuck should anyone care about how this trilogy wraps up? These stories have shit on all the progress and character arcs of the past. So basically regardless of your investment or lack of with Rey...in the next trilogy 5 years from now and Libtard Disney wants to introduce their new trans minority protagonist who hits all the victim check boxes...Rey (who doesnt hit all the victim check boxes) could just be written off as a slurring drunk who's all but forgotten about the force again and dies in a rock slide. Who cares if that's drastically against how she's written in these movies...time happened! Isn't that such a bold excuse for bad writing?..."we can do anything we want! We will just explain it using 'time'!"

 

[Magooglie]

They're all great.
The characters have depth and arcs. We care about them. The stories have depth and arcs. We wanted things to go right for our heroes.

I like these characters but I feel that now they're hemmed in a tight spot writing wise. We'll see.

Han Solo is essentially a terrific RPG party character member. In the OT Leia, Luke, and Han would be the main party. Leia is attached to the main story and Luke has his own sub-story like Han. R2D2, C3P0, and Chewbacca are also in all 3 movies but are subservient to those 3. And then you have Obi Wan and Lando who are in less than 3 movies but can be considered party members and they have their own stories that interact with the main 3. Yoda and Wedge Antilles are guest characters. For 6 hours they do a good job.

The new trilogy fails in making terrific RPG party members. Rey has a story that is pretty Luke-esque and I would say Kylo also has a very good story. But Poe is a dummy, Finn is just around, and Rose is also just around. Finn has a potentially interesting back story but at this point they all just function as resistance agents. Poe and Rose could be the same character. Finn clashes with Phasma but that's because the resistance keeps sending him to where Phasma is, there's nothing really compelling about their encounters.