STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

If you have seen STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI, how would you rate it?


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She's a nice looking young lady. Daisy Ridley also appears in the recent adaptation of Murder on the Orient Express, in which I think she looks even better.


428497A700000578-4716604-Daisy_Ridley_was_sandwiched_between_Penelope_Cruz_and_Willem_Daf-a-43_1500599465949.jpg

I dislike her character in this movie

Can I talk to you about the recent events on the train madam?
Nope.
Did you know this fine young black gentleman before getting on the train?
No racist pig


Yeah no thanks

Is this character in the original story?
 
I dislike her character in this movie

Can I talk to you about the recent events on the train madam?
Nope.
Did you know this fine young black gentleman before getting on the train?
No racist pig


Yeah no thanks

Is this character in the original story?

Yes, she's in the original story. Though in the original story Colonel Arbuthnot is not black.
 
Funny thing is, I have delved into the story so many times but at the present moment I can't seem to remember why exactly she is so stand-offish.

When people act that way I think it sends signals subconsciously to your brain saying that something is up

Even by the end of the movie the greatest detective in the world thought it was her and her boyfriend.

Its leads to a red herring or a fake ending that you see in many horror movies.

I don't think she has any other purpose other than that
 
When people act that way I think it sends signals subconsciously to your brain saying that something is up

Even by the end of the movie the greatest detective in the world thought it was her and her boyfriend.

Its leads to a red herring or a fake ending that you see in many horror movies.

I don't think she has any other purpose other than that

Well I think any detective story requires a bit of that, so I won't hold red herrings and misdirection against the story.

But I'm trying to remember why in the context of the story she delivers the line, "No, not now. . . When it's all over, then." If I remember correctly, Arbuthnot was getting a divorce from his present wife to be with Mary. But I don't think that was the case in the recent film, or at least it wasn't laid out explicitly like that. Or maybe I'm wrong, I'd need to watch it again.

I still want you to check out the '74 film at some point so you can compare the two.
 
Thing is, alot of people are not seeing how Hubris is a huge theme in this film from what Im seeing in groups and discussions and such.

The Jedi - their hubris lead to the rise of the Emperor, as they never believed a Sith could rise again, and that the Jedi were perfect
Luke - His Hubris lead to Kylo Ren being born
Snoke - his confidence lead to Ren splitting him in half
Kylo - his lead to Luke "being with him forever" and the Rebellion escaping
Poe - his lead to them needing to go to crait in the first place and the deaths of hundreds of the rebellion
Finn and rose - trusting a stranger in DJ lead to their capture, beliving in him and that Maz would not be associated with scoundrels to some degree.

Plenty of the characters are layered if you sit and think about it. It just feels like "derp we need everything shown on screen and explained to us"

Luke running off to become a nobody was no different than Yoda running off to hide from The Empire - he was considered the wisest of all Jedi Masters, yet even he did not sense the rise of the sith, leading to the jedi downfall - hubris once again

All that said: Fuck Rose.

Honestly though this seems like the kind of defence we saw of the Matrix sequels, the idea that if you can link some theme or philosophical idea to a film it automatically gives it merit. Ultimately ithe quality of a film is going to depend on how well its addressed and as with the Matrix sequels I tend to think quite a lot of this stuff was woefully simplistic in this film.
 
Nice theory.

Can you describe what we're defending this movie from?

Is it from the scathing seventh time you said "lmao?"

Or are you saying we somehow didn't in fact like something we thought we liked? Our feelings were either mistaken or misinterpreted?

Expand on this theory, if you can.

It's where you try to excuse bad writing by playing make believe about things you think happened off screen that were never hinted at or eluded too because...again...bad writing. It's shit opinions like this that have forgave and allowed hollywood the incentive to not focus in on telling a great story, but to instead toss you a glorified 2 hour long children's commercial. Why tell a good story? These idiots will just fill in the blanks in their heads!

This is idiocracy at it's best.

Up your standards.

Or long gone are the days of great summer block busters like T2 or Jurassic Park...and now we are fed, Transformers...and DC movies and this shit.
 
Honestly though this seems like the kind of defence we saw of the Matrix sequels, the idea that if you can link some theme or philosophical idea to a film it automatically gives it merit. Ultimately ithe quality of a film is going to depend on how well its addressed and as with the Matrix sequels I tend to think quite a lot of this stuff was woefully simplistic in this film.

I think with some movies the themes are presented so subtly that you may not initially realize they're there. Once you do see them though, you find that the film is actually much more layered than you originally thought and it changes the way you view the film.
 
I think with some movies the themes are presented so subtly that you may not initially realize they're there. Once you do see them though, you find that the film is actually much more layered than you originally thought and it changes the way you view the film.

I would say exactly the opposite, the film is very often lacking in subtley, stating its themes in a very obviously fashion but not actually giving them much depth. Look at that casino planet, I mean politically I'm on the left and would be sympatric with the basic ideas there but it was like being lectured by a cocky 12 year old on the subject.

I don't like to look down on blockbuster cinema but again this feels like the Matrix sequels to me, "you didn't get it" defences for a film that really isn't that hard to "get", its not like your say responding to people calling Tarkovsky boring.
 
I would say exactly the opposite, the film is very often lacking in subtley, stating its themes in a very obviously fashion but not actually giving them much depth. Look at that casino planet, I mean politically I'm on the left and would be sympatric with the basic ideas there but it was like being lectured by a cocky 12 year old on the subject.

I don't like to look down on blockbuster cinema but again this feels like the Matrix sequels to me, "you didn't get it" defences for a film that really isn't that hard to "get", its not like your say responding to people calling Tarkovsky boring.

I would agree that SOME of the themes are very obvious and occasionally even feel shoehorned in for no good reason. (The animal cruelty theme is one of them.)

But I do feel like there are themes and ideas surrounding the characters that a lot of people aren't picking up on, themes and ideas that are only understood when you look at TLJ in context with the entire Star Wars saga. I've already talked about a lot of this so no need to repeat it, but I do feel like people are missing stuff, about Luke especially but also about Rey and Kylo.
 
I have brought this up before

Similar thing happened with Luke between Empire and Jedi

At the end of Empire he very vulnerable and broken in contrast to him at the start of Jedi where he is very strong and confident

We didn't see the inbetween and we didn't question it.

Return of the Jedi gives us more of an "outsiders" view of Luke as a mysterious powerful would be Jedi at the start of the film BUT it does not show a significant shift in the core of his character. We see that very much still there in the scenes with Yoda/Obi Wan and it ultimately makes up the main climax of the film.
 
Return of the Jedi gives us more of an "outsiders" view of Luke as a mysterious powerful would be Jedi at the start of the film BUT it does not show a significant shift in the core of his character. We see that very much still there in the scenes with Yoda/Obi Wan and it ultimately makes up the main climax of the film.

He's clearly grown I power and ability though, so we must infer that he has continued his training and grown in his knowledge and understanding of the Force between Empire and ROTJ.

We don't see this training happen on-screen, but because of his increase in abilities we can understand that it took place.
 
I would agree that SOME of the themes are very obvious and occasionally even feel shoehorned in for no good reason. (The animal cruelty theme is one of them.)

But I do feel like there are themes and ideas surrounding the characters that a lot of people aren't picking up on, themes and ideas that are only understood when you look at TLJ in context with the entire Star Wars saga. I've already talked about a lot of this so no need to repeat it, but I do feel like people are missing stuff, about Luke especially but also about Rey and Kylo.

Luke pointing out the failings of the prequel era Jedi for example to me goes back again to these films depending far too much on comparison to the prequels and again he really adds nothing of depth dramatically beyond the mere observation. Equally pointing out the "legend" around himself wasn't exactly the most biting commentary and again there was no real depth provided to the observation to me.
 
He's clearly grown I power and ability though, so we must infer that he has continued his training and grown in his knowledge and understanding of the Force between Empire and ROTJ.

We don't see this training happen on-screen, but because of his increase in abilities we can understand that it took place.

He's grown in power and ability but the dramatic conflict we see introduced in ESB has not been resolved and goes on to form the centre of ROTJ.

In this case though were asked to buy into very significant shifts in Luke that not only happen off screen but aren't even addressed in much detail despite seeming to contradict the wisdom we see him gain in ROTJ.
 
I think that we should not forget the proper role of inference in understanding films. Often in films the message is indirect. Things are conveyed subtly thought subtext and implication. And I think the same is true in some respect with TLJ.

So allow me to let you in to my way of thinking. . .

Let's take Luke for instance: He's grown old and cynical. So we have to ask ourselves WHY he has become this way. There must be a reason, after all.

So what do we know about Luke's situation? We know that he fought a war and defeated the Empire, but that the Empire was able to collect itself and regroup under the banner of the First Order. The First Order has grown very powerful and has hunted the Rebellion almost to extinction. This is the point in the story that we're dropped into with The Last Jedi, the moment at which the Rebellion could literally be snuffed out because they are so small and weak.

You have to think that this series of events has had a serious effect on Luke. He risked his life fighting against the Empire when he was young, even losing a hand in the process. But what did it really achieve? Not much it seems. The victory was short-lived. The Empire wasn't really defeated and the war has continued all of these many years. This has to have frustrated Luke and perhaps even made him feel impotent. He's seen friends die on the front lines of battle, and for what? Just so that the fighting can continue and more can die?

And what else do we know? We know that he established a Jedi Temple. At one point he felt the dark side growing in his disciple Kylo Ren--who is also his nephew--and he was on the verge of murdering him in his sleep, but when Kylo woke up all Luke saw "were the eyes of a scared boy whose master had failed him." They then fought and Kylo burned down the temple, taking some of the remaining disciples and murdering the rest.

All that Luke had worked to build was now gone. Destroyed. His life's work has literally gone up in flames. As a Jedi master, and as an uncle to Kylo, he was a failure. Luke clearly feels excessive guilt for this. If he had made a different decision in that moment then it's entirely possible that Kylo would never have turned, his other disciples would not have been murdered and his Jedi temple would still be flourishing.

So when you consider all this, and you see the end result of who Luke is in The Last Jedi, do you really think he's not a layered character? Can you not see exactly how and why Luke went from the baby-faced, upbeat kid we see in the OT to the grizzled, cynical old man we find in TLJ? Does it not make sense?
That's a good story you told. And that's what the movie SHOULD HAVE addressed.
An amount of inference in film is normal, and essential for the sake of pacing, tone, and time. I don't need every scene spelled out and acted out.
But the amount of inference you're asking me to accept is incredible. To me, it's like Rian made this film without thinking about the audience.
I came to the theater to watch a movie, not imagine the life a character had from the pieces of a puzzle I was given.

But your example with Luke...we haven't seen this character on screen in like..what..30 years?
In TFA we hear mention of him. The resistance wants to find him to help them. There's this secret map that he left, we find his light saber, and that light saber seems to have some sort of connection to Rey, and then we end the movie with this grand scene of Rey looking into Luke's, offering his light saber to him.
Luke seems like a pretty big deal character here.

Fast forward to TLJ...what exactly does Luke do? What do we learn?
Why does he think the Jedi should end? Why didn't he try to save his nephew like he did his father? What are his motivations? Why does he even bother to come back in the end? Maybe he was tired of war and battle...but the audience shouldn't have to guess why a hero with the importance that a guy like Luke has is sitting on the sidelines.

This family makes no sense. Luke is not just giving up on being a hero, he is giving up on his family. His twin sister and nephew.
Why does Ren hate his parents so much? Leia and Han...beloved characters. What could make a son hate them? What kind of relationship did they ever have? Leia seems completely at peace about having to kill her son.
This movie says A LOT of things, but does nothing to actually show or explain the motivations of the characters.
Why someone would kill their father
Why a hero like Luke isolated himself on an island...these are questions that make no sense to leave to inference. They should be answered directly

As i am writing this, i think it's my problem with the entire movie and characters. It's soulless. No one really talks about their feelings or motivations. They just react to whatever happens to them, but don't seem to have any motivation to do anything but stay alive
Again, i don't NEED to have everything explained step by step...but the reason why people fall in love with characters is because they TALK AND DO stuff. What memorable lines, moments,and scenes between characters did we have in this movie that weren't CGI explosions and battles?
 
The critics score on rotten tomatoes is now down to 90%.

Free fall
 
It's where you try to excuse bad writing by playing make believe about things you think happened off screen that were never hinted at or eluded too because...again...bad writing. It's shit opinions like this that have forgave and allowed hollywood the incentive to not focus in on telling a great story, but to instead toss you a glorified 2 hour long children's commercial. Why tell a good story? These idiots will just fill in the blanks in their heads!

This is idiocracy at it's best.

Up your standards.

Or long gone are the days of great summer block busters like T2 or Jurassic Park...and now we are fed, Transformers...and DC movies and this shit.
Amazing.

You have been sniffing your butthole for far too long if you think that dogshit means anything. Plenty of clouds in the sky to yell at. Go for it.

It's too bad people gotta drop so low to compensate for disappointment. Can't take their licks like a man, and probably tip poorly too. Guess you gotta squeeze that lemon.
 
Attention fans of Jyn Erso: an explanation for a minor plot point in TLJ.

Plot_Hole.jpg

Hmm.....took quite a while to rediscover it from BBY to present time. Wonder where they had copies since the planet with the info blew up?
 
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