STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Official Thread v.6

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like madmick pointed out above, he wasn't a sith, or even a jedi. he was a padawan. also, declaring that the prequels are stupid has no relevance to the conversation as they canon.

It doesn't matter if he's a padawan. It's still equally as stupid. In this very same movie his power is shown to be strong. He reacts instantly and holds blaster beam in mid air. He can read minds with the force. Seconds before he fights Fin he uses a force push to fly Rey up into the trees and KO her and she's strong with the force. Why did he struggle with the storm trooper? Because they needed scenes for the trailer. It was dumb.

Now you're trying to downplay Kylo to make the fact that he struggled with Fin less absurd.
 
Darth Vader had years of experience and fully embraced the dark side (or more so than Kylo Ren). Kylo Ren looks like he's the same age as Anakin from Episode 3. He's not nearly as experienced as Vader




Kylo is going to get trained by the emperor and then whoop some ass in Episode 8.

I'm guessing he will kill Luke and/or Fin/Rae
she hardly did that.

so the earth splitting in two wasn't enough for you?

By the time the earth split up Ren was bitch slapped/ face melted and ready to receive the final blow.

And while I already know Luke's role is to pass the torch, then die...Watching Kylo mark 2 get his ass eventually kicked again lost it's shine because as I've said...we've already seen it happen .
 
Which brings us back to that terrible cgi hologram named snookie or whatever. Heck, given the death star/star killer analogy, maybe that cgi dude really is 30 feet tall? That seems to be the writers answer to upping the threat level.

"just make it bigger"

Yea I don't know what's going on with him, not sure if it's like a wizard of oz thing going on and he's actually a normal guy in person or if he's really a giant but either way the CGI look was not that ominous
 
Snoke has that awesome voice. Andy Serkis is the actor, he did the voice-over for the trailers, the "there's been an awakening, have you felt it?" ones.

He was on Conan recently, had a funny comment where it would've been a completely different tone had he done that voice-over in a Jar Jar voice

 
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The big giant hologram guy was already introduced.

Please detect the level of sarcasim in my voice when I tell you just how incredibly excited I am that the main villain is going to be an old cgi dude named Snookie.
 
Why is his level of power so far below Vaders? Everything he did was stronger than anything Vader did. Vader blocked a few laser shots and choked a dude with his mind. If we're just going by what we've seen displayed, Rens level of power looks stronger than Vaders. Stopping lasers in mid air, pulling memories out of people brains, etc.

Effectively, this is like as if in Episode IV Vader kills Obi Wan and then Luke runs in, picks up Obis light saber and thrashes Vader. Yeah, Ren was injured but Vader has one arm, no legs and can't breathe.

You didn't see Vader do those things but I think we could assume he was capable. Take it for what it is, a fun new way to show a bad guy using the force. Not a litmus test for force powers.

The lightsaber battles in the prequels make the ones from the OT look like childs play but we all know that Vader was stronger with the force than everybody flipping around in the prequels.
 
Still waiting to see it, and not at all mad at the spoilers that have been divulged.

So just to be clear. Star Wars canon begins anew with The Force Awakens? I see wookiepedia is making two tabs for the important players bios now Canon or Legends.

If that's the case, I feel bad for the people that poured their heart and souls into making the Star Wars universe what it was after ROTJ, with novels, comics, and games. Although this might be better off for the new generation of fans.
 
Yea I don't know what's going on with him, not sure if it's like a wizard of oz thing going on and he's actually a normal guy in person or if he's really a giant but either way the CGI look was not that ominous
It was the hologram which was big. There's an interview or something of that sort with Andy Serkis claiming his character is 7 feet tall. Possible episode 8/9 spoiler below:

Which points to him being a Muun and no other than Darth Plagueis himself, who apparently survived and fooled Palpatine.
 
The movie was freaking great and lived up to my expectations. My only gripe is that they didn't accurately define the factions and their conflicts with each other or I missed it at least.

Are the First Order and the Republic at war?

And is the resistance a group of rebels in First Order controlled planets?

Hey man...sorry about the long post but this should answer your questions if you're interested.


I've read the comics and the major plot points/spoilers from the book "Aftermath" (which is apparently shit), I've also read the wookiepedia and seen the movie twice - this is what I've figured out so far:


SPOILERS BELOW

The First Order seem to have conquered a good portion of the galaxy, or at least intimidated several systems into joining their side, by the time The Force Awakens gets started.

The First Order is either a cult within the Republic that controls it behind the scenes, or an opposing force to the republic within the galaxy.​

AFTER ENDOR
To go to the beginnings of the First Order we have to start at the battle of Endor, which saw the Super Star Destroyer Exectuor, which was the capital ship of the Imperial fleet, destroyed. The Imperial fleet lost several admirals AND an important Grand Moff, Grand Moff Jerjerrod, they also lost the Death Star, the Emperor and Vader. So there was, naturally, a leadership crisis in the Empire. Palpatine had intended to rule the empire forever, he had no proper successor and the obvious choices to replace him were all dead. Planets rebelled and some joined the rebel alliance, others claimed independence, etc. That's one of the main reasons the imperial fleet lost at Endor and withdrew from the battle without being able to destroy the rebellion, they lost all their leadership and panicked then withdrew.

The empire reorganized and fought the battle of Jakku, which ended in an imperial rout. The rebellion had rallied enough systems to the cause of restoring the republic that they were able to defeat the imperial fleet outright - the imperial fleet also made lots of bad decisions during the battle and thus suffered their second devastating loss. That was basically the end of the empire. Solo, Luke, et all fought at the battle of Jakku. Jakku is the desert planet where Rey lived. Some small fragments of the Empire remained but the Rebellion seized Coruscant right after Jakku and reorganized the galaxy. They invited planets to join the republic but did not force them to join.
That's possibly where the New Order was apparently able to sneak in and gain some traction. There were certain planets that chose to remain "imperial" in a sense because they had a democratic right to do so. It seems the Republic recognized this as legitimate. So the "Empire" lived on in some places, but they weren't much of a force. The Republic had/has a massive fleet and millions (billions?) of inhabited planets supporting it.

Luke went on to try and re-start the Jedi Knights as the keepers of peace throughout the galaxy but failed to prevent some key students from turning to the Dark Side. I guess a major risk associated with teaching people about The Force is that people are flawed and might be turned to selfishness and rage for any number of reasons.
Luke taught some kids some lessons, and badda-bing badda-boom, he lost control of certain students. This "supreme leader Snoke" who may or may not have been a student of Luke's started a cult and recruited members, he managed to brainwash Ben who becomes Kylo Ren with stories of his grandfather and promises of power, and any number of other cult-esque strategies that tear people from their families.

ENTER THE FIRST ORDER
This cult gets in contact with whatever remains of the Empire and they form an "Alliance to restore The Empire" kind of thing, and either go on a warpath starting a full on Galactic war, or, they operate as a cult/independent territory and via cold war tactics they terrorize the Republic; OR they operate as a behind the scenes cult with a smattering of forces around the galaxy - it's not clear what was going on politically in "The Force Awakens" (probably by design since Disney knew Abarams only had 1 film on contract and they didn't want him designing the entire new universe).​

"The Resistance" seems to have been formed within First Order territory, or, as an offshoot of the Republic that would not sit idly by and watch the Empire re-form under the guise of --whatever it is-- that the First Order did to take control of systems.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?
As of The Force Awakens, the First Order is either:

A) In a full on war against the Republic, but they fear to engage the Republic fleet outright and the Republic Fleet is also unwilling to engage in a decisive battle, so there's a stalemate

B) In a Cold War against the Republic, where they engage in occasional skirmishes that see various territories ceded between one party and the other, followed by peace treaties.

C) Is a cult that is controlling the Republic behind the scenes and can't be crushed because of corruption

Whatever the case may be, the First Order is also fighting a resistance within the places they directly control that is supported by at least some elements of the New Republic, based on the lines of dialogue we heard in the movie.

Hope someone reads all that someday...
 
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By the effort that the fan boys are putting in defending and explaining this piece of crap a bystander could think people are talking about a Thomas Pynchon novel.

But no, they are trying to explain the shortcomings of a plot wrote by MOTHERFUCKING JJ ABRAMS.

You know why Kylo lost the fight to rey? Not because he was hurt , or because he was a padawan ( really, you guys going that way?) but because the movie is inconsistent and stupid. That is the real answer.
 
By the effort that the fan boys are putting in defending and explaining this piece of crap a bystander could think people are talking about a Thomas Pynchon novel.

But no, they are trying to explain the shortcomings of a plot wrote by MOTHERFUCKING JJ ABRAMS.

You know why Kylo lose the fight to rey? Not because he was hurt , or because he was a padawan ( really, you guys going that way?) but because the movie is inconsistent and stupid. That is the real answer.
That's literally why. Because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong.
 
How is Finn not inspiring??

Helped Poe escape and put his own neck on the line.



Couldn't kill innocent beings at the beginning of the movie. Knows his place in life is evil and wrong. So he corrects it.

Helps Rey and vice versa.

Knows he's outmatched at the end but still confronts Ren to save Rey.

If you didn't catch all that you simply don't like the character because you feel he was shoe horned in because he's black.


And for the record Pre Vizla in the clone wars cartoon goes toe to toe in a light saber battle. He was just human as well. Also that's canon.
 
It was the hologram which was big. There's an interview or something of that sort with Andy Serkis claiming his character is 7 feet tall. Possible episode 8/9 spoiler below:

Which points to him being a Muun and no other than Darth Plagueis himself, who apparently survived and fooled Palpatine.
That would be awesome.
 
I wonder where Snoke is located.

Is he on a battle ship?

Another planet?

An undiscovered region of space?

Or living on a republic planet?
 
As of The Force Awakens, the First Order is either:

A) In a full on war against the Republic, but they fear to engage the Republic fleet outright and the Republic Fleet is also unwilling to engage in a decisive battle, so there's a stalemate

B) In a Cold War against the Republic, where they engage in occasional skirmishes that see various territories ceded between one party and the other, followed by peace treaties.

C) Is a cult that is controlling the Republic behind the scenes and can't be crushed because of corruption

Neither.

The First Order is an imperial successor state which controls a small portion of the galaxy. The New Republic is the galaxy's preeminent superpower and biggest military force, so they choose to ignore the First Oder so long as the former imperials abide by their treaty obligations.

You can see this information in the Visual Dictionary. I just wish they had made it clear in the movie itself:

9I89gfk.jpg

AWLWe5L.jpg
 
That's literally why. .

No it is not. Kylo was portrayed as being really strong in the beginning of the movie.
And Rey was made out to be Mary Sue, God in the shape of a women. The girl that is going to save all society.

The agenda is obvious and JJ Abrams is stupid. We are talking about the guy behind the WORST MACGUFFIN OF ALL TIME IN MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 3.
And you are trying out to hard to explain.


There is a rule of tumb to any movie. If you try too hard to explain an obvious popcorn flick, the flick has failed in having a silly plot.

And this popcorn flick has a negative graded plot. It is stupid and derivative. Even transformers has a smarter plot than this shit.
 
Yeah the bigger the better.
Snoke should be 25 feet tall. That is going to make him uberbadass. And the next death star is the size of a supernova.
But can be destroyed by a blaster, but so what?

The bigger the better.
 
No it is not. Kylo was portrayed as being really strong in the beginning of the movie.
And Rey was made out to be Mary Sue, God in the shape of a women. The girl that is going to save all society.

The agenda is obvious and JJ Abrams is stupid. We are talking about the guy behind the WORST MACGUFFIN OF ALL TIME IN MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 3.
And you are trying out to hard to explain.


There is a rule of tumb to any movie. If you try too hard to explain an obvious popcorn flick, the flick has failed in having a silly plot.

And this popcorn flick has a negative graded plot. It is stupid and derivative. Even transformers has a smarter plot than this shit.
Oh, you actually gave the movie a 1/10. Never mind.
 
Neither.

The First Order is an imperial successor state which controls a small portion of the galaxy. The New Republic is the galaxy's preeminent superpower and biggest military force, so they choose to ignore the First Oder so long as the former imperials abide by their treaty obligations.

You can see this information in the Visual Dictionary. I just wish they had made it clear in the movie itself:

9I89gfk.jpg

AWLWe5L.jpg

Amazing! This is EXACTLY the kind of clarity I was looking for. and a conversation I had hoped to have. Can't believe you have such a great source here too. Awesome, thanks for this.

So, okay, the "First Order" retreated into a defensible series of systems and signed a peace treaty with the New Republic - but a resistance formed within their territory. Makes sense. They are in a kind of Cold War then.

Although the fact that they march around the galaxy, presumably in Republic territory, killing people, makes me think they have some serious power, otherwise they wouldn't be so blatant at risking war against the Republic - it's also strange the Republic didn't have a harsher response to their designing a super-weapon like Starkiller base, but it's possible The First Order kept it all a secret.

Even so, a full on war is now going on, but I guess the Starkiller base blew up the Republic fleet when they destroyed Hosian Prime?
 
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You guys know what else the genius behind this flick is responsible for?

The NOBEL PRIZE AND PULLITZER PRIZE WINNER PLOT OF ARMAGGEDON.

This mastermind, this einstein, thought it was really clever idea putting a bunch of drillers in a steroid.
While aerosmith played in the background.

Brilliant.
 
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