Television Star Wars THE ACOLYTE (Cancelled After One Season)

[Clippy]

Listen I understand arguing into the void and people not understanding what you are trying to say and how frustrating it can be especially when you are outnumbered. I don't think the show was terrible but truth be told the parts of this show I watched bored me to tears. I'm always saying how I prefer TVs to movies for long form stories because we get more content. This show was PAINFULLY stretched out. The basic lore concept is not the overarching issue I have with the show its that S1 of this show should have been like like half the season maybe even less. No I don't have a problem with their explanation of the divine birth that was all fine thats not why I think it should be decanonized.

I didn't like the Ki Adi Mundi thing because they could have picked a number of people where there would have been no issue whatsoever who didn't famously say "the Sith have been extinct for millenia" to investigate the Sith. They had a bunch of choices they could have made for that cameo picking him out of all them felt like changing stuff for the sake of changing it. Also Ki Adi Mundi gets added to the Council right before the Prequels and this has him take a fucking century to make it despite being the supposed third big wig after Yoda and Mace Windu. In Legends he was supposed to make it on the Council before being a Master as the precedent for Anakin making it without being a Master. So now they've really butchered this dudes story.

Listen I've spoken out multiple times over the whole media hate complex YT has built around Star Wars that act like Kathleen Kennedy is the greatest evil of our time. But the TLJ hate is what built that whole industry because it was actually genuine people really didn't like that movie. Not because it was terrible film but because it was a franchise film where Rian Johnson abused a beloved character who'd been a symbol for decades. From my vantage point some people were not very nice to you at that time and you're upset at them. I understand that and holding a grudge because you feel mistreated. At the same time this is not a winnable fight and trying to convince them TLJ was a good film isn't going anywhere. Its been almost 7 years man. At the end of the day its a movie. There are more important things in life then convincing strangers on the internet you don't get along with a movie was good. Theres no real stakes here.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

 

[Madmick]

This is only a fun thing to say while contained in this echo chamber, but the reality is that a lot of people liked it all the way through & are very upset that it's not getting a 2nd season.

The people who like it, recognize the quirky writing... that just didn't trump the show for the fantastic lore it brought to teh table.

Forbes magazine doesn't exist in an echo chamber. The show has atrocious audience ratings on every service that takes them.

Relatively, in the context of the population the show reached with Disney's enormous reach, no, "a lot of people" didn't like the show. Barely anybody at all did.

 

[Clippy]

lol as if you can win using facts and logic

 

[I Am Legion]

You can talk about the forced SJW/Diversity inclusion bullshit in the Disney Star Wars series The Acolyte. And I believe it turned many people off. You could point to incohesive writing, and weird non-Star Wars type characters and ideas that piss off purists. But to me it comes down to the show being BORING. The only show that Disney has done that hasn't been boring was Andor. All the other ones have suffered the same fate....dull and boring.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

ai written ^^?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

You can talk about the forced SJW/Diversity inclusion bullshit in the Disney Star Wars series The Acolyte. And I believe it turned many people off. You could point to incohesive writing, and weird non-Star Wars type characters and ideas that piss off purists. But to me it comes down to the show being BORING. The only show that Disney has done that hasn't been boring was Andor. All the other ones have suffered the same fate....dull and boring.

I've been rewatching The Shield, the FX series on basic cable from 2001-2008, and its legitimately the best cop show ever and it was produced on a shoestring budget.

'Shoe-string budget' meaning Walton Goggins recently stated it was "the cheapest show on TV."

So what is the #1 factor that kept the ratings and DVD sales high? The absolute cheapest factor involved in the quality of any show... the writing.

The writing of a series or film should be viewed as just as important as the writing within a book... if its not of a quality to keep the audience invested then absolutely nothing else matters.

Doesn't matter if it has a 5-Star Cast that would win Emmys.
Doesn't matter if it has a budget rivaling major films.
Doesn't matter if its has CGI that is better than anything we've seen.
If the writing isn't there, the audience won't be there to appreciate any if those other factors.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I didn't like the Ki Adi Mundi thing because they could have picked a number of people where there would have been no issue whatsoever who didn't famously say "the Sith have been extinct for millenia" to investigate the Sith. They had a bunch of choices they could have made for that cameo picking him out of all them felt like changing stuff for the sake of changing it.

Probably one of the biggest lore themes in teh Skywalker saga is how the Jedi self destructed from within. (Sid just flipped teh final switch)

Ki was very specifically chosen "because" he said that. No other character could've drove home teh point that the Jedi kept secrets even within their own order" more than having Ki present during this cover up.

Also Ki Adi Mundi gets added to the Council right before the Prequels and this has him take a fucking century to make it despite being the supposed third big wig after Yoda and Mace Windu.

There were countless Jedi during the High Republic era & only 12 council members. I don't see a problem with this. Vanestra was something like 150 yearz old... & a big deal too... as much or more than Ki... & she wasn't on teh council.

In Legends he was supposed to make it on the Council before being a Master as the precedent for Anakin making it without being a Master. So now they've really butchered this dudes story.

They removed that one small part of the story. It doesn't really change much at all. I don't recall Anakin making the council, so this legends story was already butchered by Lucas in teh prequels. This was understood by all who enjoyed Lucas' "levels of canon."

Rian Johnson abused a beloved character who'd been a symbol for decades.

No way Rian rolled up & created Luke's treatment, & then Disney was like "okay, whatever you want." Meanwhile they micro-managed Solo to such a degree that they took a tremendous loss to change direction mid-way through production.

I can dig it up if needed, but Lucas' vision for Luke was as a withdrawn recluse, & a picture he had done by an artist is obviously what they used for his demeanor & likeness because it looks just like what we see on film.

From my vantage point some people were not very nice to you at that time and you're upset at them. I understand that and holding a grudge because you feel mistreated. At the same time this is not a winnable fight and trying to convince them TLJ was a good film isn't going anywhere.

It's happening now too!!!
Post 1754 I showed one guy who rolled in here out of nowhere last week insulting me on his very first post in this thread... & continuing insulting me after that.

You're mistaken that I'm trying to convince anyone to like this, or TLJ. Since my very first post about Star Wars here on teh dog (in TLJ thread) all I ever wanted to do was to talk about the lore & have good convos. My convos with Chikin brother for example display how my convos go when I'm not being personally attacked... but the other person has a different pov. We talk about the lore even though we don't always agree.

You're right that in TLJ thread, I was attacked ruthlessly by a dozen super-haters that were running out anyone who liked it. They were like a little gang that haunted those threads throughout every day. I simply stood up for my right to be in there with my opinions without being insulted. I still do... & it's literally in the guidlines for this Mayberry forum that I should be able to do that without being harrassed.

I don't get into these pissing matches with others until they insult me first. At that point I try to remind them of their manners.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

lol as if you can win using facts and logic

How cowardly is it to put someone on ignore and then continue to talk shit about them.

The very first thing he said in this thread was a rant about me. He then continued to harrass & belittle me & still does.

For that matter, how are so many people allowed by the mods to continually harrass me in here? I get insulted in here continually, & everyone seems fine with that, but when I speak up for myself, they all dog pile me as if I'm the problem.

It was all fine in TLJ threads when I was allowed to talk shit back, but after my 2 week trial, I was assured this would be handled by management.

 

[SuperAlly]

You’re the only man on earth who doesn’t realise or won’t admit the Ki thing was a massive F up

Probably one of the biggest lore themes in teh Skywalker saga is how the Jedi self destructed from within. (Sid just flipped teh final switch)

Ki was very specifically chosen "because" he said that. No other character could've drove home teh point that the Jedi kept secrets even within their own order" more than having Ki present during this cover up.


There were countless Jedi during the High Republic era & only 12 council members. I don't see a problem with this. Vanestra was something like 150 yearz old... & a big deal too... as much or more than Ki... & she wasn't on teh council.


They removed that one small part of the story. It doesn't really change much at all. I don't recall Anakin making the council, so this legends story was already butchered by Lucas in teh prequels. This was understood by all who enjoyed Lucas' "levels of canon."


No way Rian rolled up & created Luke's treatment, & then Disney was like "okay, whatever you want." Meanwhile they micro-managed Solo to such a degree that they took a tremendous loss to change direction mid-way through production.

I can dig it up if needed, but Lucas' vision for Luke was as a withdrawn recluse, & a picture he had done by an artist is obviously what they used for his demeanor & likeness because it looks just like what we see on film.


It's happening now too!!!
Post 1754 I showed one guy who rolled in here out of nowhere last week insulting me on his very first post in this thread... & continuing insulting me after that.

You're mistaken that I'm trying to convince anyone to like this, or TLJ. Since my very first post about Star Wars here on teh dog (in TLJ thread) all I ever wanted to do was to talk about the lore & have good convos. My convos with Chikin brother for example display how my convos go when I'm not being personally attacked... but the other person has a different pov. We talk about the lore even though we don't always agree.

You're right that in TLJ thread, I was attacked ruthlessly by a dozen super-haters that were running out anyone who liked it. They were like a little gang that haunted those threads throughout every day. I simply stood up for my right to be in there with my opinions without being insulted. I still do... & it's literally in the guidlines for this Mayberry forum that I should be able to do that without being harrassed.

I don't get into these pissing matches with others until they insult me first. At that point I try to remind them of their manners.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

You’re the only man I’m earth who doesn’t realise or won’t admit the Ki thing was a massive F up

Echo-Chamber mentality.

There's this insignificant fellow called George Lucas who is fine with it. They literally asked Lucas about it in pre-production.

They purposefully put Ki in this show to contrast what he said in teh pre-quels. I'm sure you understand the logic, you just don't want to accept it. That's no reason try & belittle me as if I'm the only one who likes it.

I'm far from the only one. It's likely you don't watch or read reviews from people who are neutral to love the show on the internet. I always "admit" if I feel I got something wrong when I'm presented with a good counter-opinion. I've done it many times in Star Wars threads. I haven't heard a reason as to why Ki's presence is a problem, that resinates me. It makes perfect sense to me.

I legitimately enjoy his presence here in this cover up that he was right there for, but the secret was kept to where he didn't even know. I feel you are not appreciating the contrast there, & that's fine, but I don't understand your insistence on the idea that there's something wrong with my logic, when I've displayed my thought process by discussing it with those who feel otherwise.

 

[ferrisjso]

Probably one of the biggest lore themes in teh Skywalker saga is how the Jedi self destructed from within. (Sid just flipped teh final switch)

Ki was very specifically chosen "because" he said that. No other character could've drove home teh point that the Jedi kept secrets even within their own order" more than having Ki present during this cover up.


There were countless Jedi during the High Republic era & only 12 council members. I don't see a problem with this. Vanestra was something like 150 yearz old... & a big deal too... as much or more than Ki... & she wasn't on teh council.


They removed that one small part of the story. It doesn't really change much at all. I don't recall Anakin making the council, so this legends story was already butchered by Lucas in teh prequels. This was understood by all who enjoyed Lucas' "levels of canon."


No way Rian rolled up & created Luke's treatment, & then Disney was like "okay, whatever you want." Meanwhile they micro-managed Solo to such a degree that they took a tremendous loss to change direction mid-way through production.

I can dig it up if needed, but Lucas' vision for Luke was as a withdrawn recluse, & a picture he had done by an artist is obviously what they used for his demeanor & likeness because it looks just like what we see on film.


It's happening now too!!!
Post 1754 I showed one guy who rolled in here out of nowhere last week insulting me on his very first post in this thread... & continuing insulting me after that.

You're mistaken that I'm trying to convince anyone to like this, or TLJ. Since my very first post about Star Wars here on teh dog (in TLJ thread) all I ever wanted to do was to talk about the lore & have good convos. My convos with Chikin brother for example display how my convos go when I'm not being personally attacked... but the other person has a different pov. We talk about the lore even though we don't always agree.

You're right that in TLJ thread, I was attacked ruthlessly by a dozen super-haters that were running out anyone who liked it. They were like a little gang that haunted those threads throughout every day. I simply stood up for my right to be in there with my opinions without being insulted. I still do... & it's literally in the guidlines for this Mayberry forum that I should be able to do that without being harrassed.

I don't get into these pissing matches with others until they insult me first. At that point I try to remind them of their manners.

Wait so you're actually going with the whole "Ki Adi Mundi covered it up" thing from that comedy sketch?






Yes Chicken Brother is pretty great that should be a unifying thing we can all agree on.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Wait so you're actually going with the whole "Ki Adi Mundi covered it up" thing from that comedy sketch?






Yes Chicken Brother is pretty great that should be a unifying thing we can all agree on.

The cover-up is specifically why they chose KI to be a part of this investigation. You're saying that "I'm going with it..." as if there's some doubt as to why he was cast to be there. That is precisely why he was chosen to be in this. I have no problem with it & I enjoy the contrast. It's an exclamation point on the corruption of the Jedi.

Lucas agreed that it was okay to put him in there.

This skit is a bit of comedy, but there'z zero canon that that shows Ki knew anything about the Sith. It was also understood that they didn't know if Maul was a Sith when Ki said it. He literally said it just after Qui-gon deduced that "the thing they fought" was a sith... so that part of the skit is just twisting things.

 

[SuperAlly]

Echo-Chamber mentality.

There's this insignificant fellow called George Lucas who is fine with it. They literally asked Lucas about it in pre-production.

They purposefully put Ki in this show to contrast what he said in teh pre-quels. I'm sure you understand the logic, you just don't want to accept it. That's no reason try & belittle me as if I'm the only one who likes it.

I'm far from the only one. It's likely you don't watch or read reviews from people who are neutral to love the show on the internet. I always "admit" if I feel I got something wrong when I'm presented with a good counter-opinion. I've done it many times in Star Wars threads. I haven't heard a reason as to why Ki's presence is a problem, that resinates me. It makes perfect sense to me.

I legitimately enjoy his presence here in this cover up that he was right there for, but the secret was kept to where he didn't even know. I feel you are not appreciating the contrast there, & that's fine, but I don't understand your insistence on the idea that there's something wrong with my logic, when I've displayed my thought process by discussing it with those who feel otherwise.

Basically, for you, everything about any Star Wars show or movie is great

Not everyone else shares your low standards

That’s cool. You dont have to convince everyone you are correct that only praise of Star Wars is allowed. You will never win with this crusade because the vast majority of cinemaphiles don’t share your low standards

 

[moreorless87]

You can talk about the forced SJW/Diversity inclusion bullshit in the Disney Star Wars series The Acolyte. And I believe it turned many people off. You could point to incohesive writing, and weird non-Star Wars type characters and ideas that piss off purists. But to me it comes down to the show being BORING. The only show that Disney has done that hasn't been boring was Andor. All the other ones have suffered the same fate....dull and boring.

I don't think its actually nearly as big a factor with most viewers as gets talked up, anti woke grifters run this stuff like crazy and some rather bland centralist libs love it as well but to most viewers I think its really far less of an issue that the overall quality.

It tends to be as well people go looking for "woke" in stuff were the quality can be questioned so they can play it up as the main issue but look at Andor, Mexican lead, evil white co lead, female authority future, non sexualised lesbian political activists and a student anti fascist plus "working class trade union planet". I would say Andor was actually the MOST political Starwars has ever been onscreen, not just for that stuff of course though but showing the mundanity of a evil in an increasingly facist government and the uprising against it from ordinary people.

Were I do agree with the anti wokers though is that Kennedy probably does bare a good deal of blame for the franchises recent weaknesses, not because she's some hardcore feminist, I don't think she is at all, rather I think she's a bean counter who has little or no creative talent and so has run(although I suspect Disney higher ups also bare a good deal of blame) in a questionable fashion. Hiring JJ Abrams was really the cynical bean counter move, basically recreate what he'd done for Trek which seemed like a sucess but quickly used up any goodwill depending mostly on bland nostalgia which showed little respect for its source material.

Since then I suspect she's lost some power, could be Disney don't want to fire her for fear that would play into the anti woke narrative but Favreau/Feloni do seem to have gained a good deal of control of certain shows(and now films) plus Gilroy and co seem to work with a fairly free hand on Andor having to accept that Rogue One is now clearly the best regarded Disney film. As a resultt I think the franchise feels pretty messy, loads of different shows/films with different people behind them pulling in different directions.

 

[ferrisjso]

The cover-up is specifically why they chose KI to be a part of this investigation. You're saying that "I'm going with it..." as if there's some doubt as to why he was cast to be there. That is precisely why he was chosen to be in this. I have no problem with it & I enjoy the contrast. It's an exclamation point on the corruption of the Jedi.

Lucas agreed that it was okay to put him in there.

This skit is a bit of comedy, but there'z zero canon that that shows Ki knew anything about the Sith. It was also understood that they didn't know if Maul was a Sith when Ki said it. He literally said it just after Qui-gon deduced that "the thing they fought" was a sith... so that part of the skit is just twisting things.

But I thought you said the Jedi covered it up. Meaning.....Ki adi Mundi. The whole giant theme about the Jedi being corrupt etc. Your right that is a good theme but theres a lot of ways you can go about establishing it.

But yeah I'm not a fan of that pick. They could have chosen so many other Jedi for that cameo. You know like our lord and savior Yarael Poof. It just feels like they made the pick that would cause the most disruption. And even if you agree with it Mundi was certainly the pick that would have caused the most disruption.

I don't think Lucas really cares about small details like that. He named Obi-Wans homeworld after Jon Stewart because he didn't have an answer for a question he didn't particuarly care about the answer to. You think if a showrunner asks nicely George Lucas is going to die on the hill of maintaining the consistancy of a background character he had say like 5 lines in his movies?

 

[deviake]

I don't think its actually nearly as big a factor with most viewers as gets talked up, anti woke grifters run this stuff like crazy and some rather bland centralist libs love it as well but to most viewers I think its really far less of an issue that the overall quality.

It tends to be as well people go looking for "woke" in stuff were the quality can be questioned so they can play it up as the main issue but look at Andor, Mexican lead, evil white co lead, female authority future, non sexualised lesbian political activists and a student anti fascist plus "working class trade union planet". I would say Andor was actually the MOST political Starwars has ever been onscreen, not just for that stuff of course though but showing the mundanity of a evil in an increasingly facist government and the uprising against it from ordinary people.

Were I do agree with the anti wokers though is that Kennedy probably does bare a good deal of blame for the franchises recent weaknesses, not because she's some hardcore feminist, I don't think she is at all, rather I think she's a bean counter who has little or no creative talent and so has run(although I suspect Disney higher ups also bare a good deal of blame) in a questionable fashion. Hiring JJ Abrams was really the cynical bean counter move, basically recreate what he'd done for Trek which seemed like a sucess but quickly used up any goodwill depending mostly on bland nostalgia which showed little respect for its source material.

Since then I suspect she's lost some power, could be Disney don't want to fire her for fear that would play into the anti woke narrative but Favreau/Feloni do seem to have gained a good deal of control of certain shows(and now films) plus Gilroy and co seem to work with a fairly free hand on Andor having to accept that Rogue One is now clearly the best regarded Disney film. As a resultt I think the franchise feels pretty messy, loads of different shows/films with different people behind them pulling in different directions.

It amuses me when people talk about a dark skinned person or a woman in a show like it's radically left, woke or whatever and some of the cast made certain comments, when at best it's surface level milquetoast liberal ID politics, meanwhile actual, in some cases heavy duty, even militant leftwing politics go right passed them. It never gets old.

 

[SuperAlly]

It amuses me when people talk about a dark skinned person or a woman in a show like it's radically left, woke or whatever and some of the cast made certain comments, when at best it's surface level milquetoast liberal ID politics, meanwhile actual, in some cases heavy duty, even militant leftwing politics go right passed them. It never gets old.

It amuses me when some people realise it’s not the why but the how that people tend to have issue with. Goes right past them. Never gets old.

 

[deviake]

It amuses me when some people realise it’s not the why but the how that people tend to have issue with. Goes right past them. Never gets old.

Two things can be true at once - that the people involved in a show can bullshit like the dissatisfaction is purely identity based and not cuz the show sucked and that certain people really do cry too much about skin tone, gay, woman, whatever. I've seen some of the comments on these boards before in various threads, lets not bullshit.

 

[ferrisjso]

Two things can be true at once - that the people involved in a show can bullshit like the dissatisfaction is purely identity based and not cuz the show sucked and that certain people really do cry too much about skin tone, gay, woman, whatever. I've seen some of the comments on these boards before in various threads, lets not bullshit.

I feel like a bunch of us were defending this show in the beginning when we knew it was probably going to suck because we know the "go woke, go broke" crowd was going to use this show sucking to fuel their grift when the show sucking had nothing to do with that.

The only thing Disney did in that regard is hiring such an aggressively alphabet director. But can't really blame them for wanting to give those YT people the finger knowing damm well they'd lose their minds. But yeah that directors main issue was stalling everything for Season 2 and that was the main reason there will be no season 2. She wasn't even going to show Darth Plageuis at all in Season 1 and somebody stepped in.