Star Wars Megathread

[Cool Hand Luke]

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-george-lucas-luke-skywalker-mark-hamill/#:~:text=Luke Skywalker Died In George Lucas' Star Wars:,sequel trilogy. By Chris Agar Mar 26, 2018

Luke Skywalker Died In George Lucas' Star Wars: Episode 9

Mark Hamill reveals Luke Skywalker died in George Lucas' version of Star Wars: Episode 9, back when Lucas was developing a sequel trilogy.

When it comes to credibility :
Mark Hamill > Kathleen Kennedy.

Not to mention, Lucas had originally planned to end the series with Episode 3 prior his sequel treatment. The prospective sale to Disney meant that Lucas had to re-look at how the Skywalker-saga would continue and ultimately end, which we know originally included Luke dying in episode 9. Disney decided to go a different route, the wrong route, alienating long time fans, HEAVILY insinuating Luke considered killing Kylo as he slept. I think there was a happy medium of introducing new characters while simultaneously providing a heroic closure to the Skywalker name for all fans. This may have made it hard to continue with new Star Wars movies taking place after, but I think the sales/marketing etc would have looked completely different and the reaction by 'toxic' fans avoiding Solo and Rogue One would not have happened.

The Mandalorian, clone wars etc has only proven one thing, that Star Wars IS about the Skywalkers.

 

[GtehMVP]

Yes, hermit & frustrated Luke was Lucas' creation. It was communicated to the art department in mid Jan 2013 for concept art that came out looking exactly like the movie. @GearSolidMetal inquired about this a while back as well.

Skip the part about Rey if you like, but it's interesting too because she was also a Lucas creation... just had a different name.

Link



That is the canon book in that second half: Star Wars Fascinating Facts - by Pablo Hidalgo

Here's an instagram from the LucasFilm employee who drew frustrated Hermit Luke concept art off of George's description. In case you didn't know... the sale was day before halloween 2012, & Lucas sat down with the art crew at Skywalker ranch in mid Jan 2013. That's when this guy got the concept from Lucas



Read the caption. That's what this guy's instructions were.
here's another one, though he didn't reveal it was Lucas' concept.... he did in the one just above, so that's a dun deal.



The following is the fantastic article... & I don't think that's an exaggeration to say that. This dude really did some great research & he actually updates this article periodically as well.

Link

haha I knew if anyone would go the extra mile in a response it would be you,thx

I'm at "work" otherwise I'd look into it myself, but what made Luke a frustrated recluse?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Yes, hermit & frustrated Luke was Lucas' creation. It was communicated to the art department in mid Jan 2013 for concept art that came out looking exactly like the movie. @GearSolidMetal inquired abou

Of course its 'canon' in your mind, just like...

This doesn't retort that Lucas had Luke die in Ep. 8. That book I posted you is Canon, & so that is indisputable information.

'Indisputiful information' you say?

To which I posted....

Luke Skywalker Died In George Lucas' Star Wars: Episode 9

...and you shut the fuck up real quick, didn't you?

Anyway, all of these 'official sources' you describe as 'canon' are made by Disney, which are trying... pathetically... to say to fans 'Everything you hated about the sequel trilogy was George Lucas's idea.'

For those who actually believe this, you're gullible shills.

That'd be very believable if Igur and Kennedy had used Lucas's outlines for E7-9, but they famously didn't do that, in fact they just said 'Fuck it, let give complete creative control for Ep8 to the writer and director of Looper.'

Brilliant idea to shit on the most famous and loved character of a franchise you've paid $4 billion dollars for.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Yes, hermit & frustrated Luke was Lucas' creation. It was communicated to the art department in mid Jan 2013 for concept art that came out looking exactly like the movie. @GearSolidMetal inquired about this a while back as well.

Skip the part about Rey if you like, but it's interesting too because she was also a Lucas creation... just had a different name.

Link



That is the canon book in that second half: Star Wars Fascinating Facts - by Pablo Hidalgo

Here's an instagram from the LucasFilm employee who drew frustrated Hermit Luke concept art off of George's description. In case you didn't know... the sale was day before halloween 2012, & Lucas sat down with the art crew at Skywalker ranch in mid Jan 2013. That's when this guy got the concept from Lucas



Read the caption. That's what this guy's instructions were.
here's another one, though he didn't reveal it was Lucas' concept.... he did in the one just above, so that's a dun deal.



The following is the fantastic article... & I don't think that's an exaggeration to say that. This dude really did some great research & he actually updates this article periodically as well.

Link

Very informative post, thank you.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

haha I knew if anyone would go the extra mile in a response it would be you,thx

I'm at "work" otherwise I'd look into it myself, but what made Luke a frustrated recluse?

Regarding George's vision... he left it open to interpretation & simply said that Luke was distraught over a traumatic event or something like that.

In the movie... it was a combination of obviously the school being burned down by his student & all the people who died and his failure to bring Ben back to the light like his sister tasked him to do. However, it was also the questions the ancient Jedi text left in his mind regarding whether or not the Jedi religion was really all that.

I mean obviously the Sith Religion is fooked... anyone who's not a totally self absorbed fook can see that... but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Jedi religion is the answer. They have their shortcomings as well... & so we find Luke with no religion... & that's a weird place to be.

I'm not saying you need an "already established" religion to feel confident in life, but you at least need a personal religion... & I think Luke found himself questioning everything he's ever known while recognizing the power of the dark side & he just decided to shut it off & have a think about it for a while. Maybe he got a little dramatic about it all & accepted that he was just going to die on Porg-To if necessary... but I think a piece of him knew he would have to rock up at some point. he did leave a map to him ffs if they needed him badly. & so he just let the galaxy be what it is without his participation while he tussled with these big questions.

The point being that he was just confused. He didn't know what to do with all this power he had & he's seen that the power he possesses can turn bad, & even felt it in himself... & so maybe Yoda was right that he was too old to control it when his training started. So he just stopped it & shut it off as best he could.

He was probably also frustrated with being a virgin & that Mara Jade never made canon.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-george-lucas-luke-skywalker-mark-hamill/#:~:text=Luke Skywalker Died In George Lucas' Star Wars:,sequel trilogy. By Chris Agar Mar 26, 2018

Luke Skywalker Died In George Lucas' Star Wars: Episode 9

Mark Hamill reveals Luke Skywalker died in George Lucas' version of Star Wars: Episode 9, back when Lucas was developing a sequel trilogy.

When it comes to credibility :
Mark Hamill > Kathleen Kennedy.

I find your meme confrontational, but Thanx for sharing your link. Please don't overlook this part of it though: "It's unsure if this is from Lucas' most recent draft, or one of his earlier ones."

a Canon SW's book says that Luke died in Ep. 8 according to George's final draft... what you're presenting is a post from IGN who is interpreting something an actor said 3rd party about Lucas' intentions.

Of course its 'canon' in your mind, just like...

Canon is indisputable fact in the Star Wars universe.

...and you shut the fuck up real quick, didn't you?

What are you talking about I shut up real quick? I'm working long hard hours & I go for days without having time to see my notifications now-a-days. I'm just now seeing this, so please do not read anything into any delays. Didn't I just say that this morning before I left for work though?

I don't understand your pov here. The time it takes me to respond has nothing to do with anything. I really don't have the time to be responding now tbh.

Anyway, all of these 'official sources' you describe as 'canon' are made by Disney, which are trying... pathetically... to say to fans 'Everything you hated about the sequel trilogy was George Lucas's idea.'
For those who actually believe this, you're gullible shills.

That'd be very believable if Igur and Kennedy had used Lucas's outlines for E7-9, but they famously didn't do that, in fact they just said 'Fuck it, let give complete creative control for Ep8 to the writer and director of Looper.'

Brilliant idea to shit on the most famous and loved character of a franchise you've paid $4 billion dollars for.

Interestingly the movie the Looper guy made was the closest version of Lucas' script out of all the movies.

@Kaybee am I a "gullible Shill?" (to the best of your knowledge of coarse) I'm just curious because I'm not sure how to take that description of myself that Gear was so kind to provide me with.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Very informative post, thank you.

 

[Morning Star]

Oh yay.



Exactly what everyone wanted.

True this is what we've been dying for. Not a badass Master Luke Skywalker, or a well thought out story that emotionally resonates with us. We need more of this, Rose Tico, and Robosexuals like the new Lando. The force is no longer female but non-binary.

 

[Morning Star]

Also IDGAF about the Bad Batch. I fucking love Filoni. Him and Jon Favreau are the only thing keeping SW afloat at this point. But FFS this is so unnecessary. Enough about the clone wars. Just retcon Luke becoming an alien walrus titty drinking bitch and give us more on Ahsoka and Ezra. Thanks.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I find your meme confrontational,

Please don't overlook this part of it though: "It's unsure if this is from Lucas' most recent draft, or one of his earlier ones."

Yes, that's a very curious addendum the author of the article put in before Mark Hamill's actual quote, which doesn't mention differences between any of Lucas's drafts.

[/b]"I happen to know that George didn't kill Luke until the end of [Episode] 9, after he trained Leia. Which is another thread that was never played upon [in The Last Jedi]."[/b]

'I happen to know' is at the beginning of people's sentences before they say something they know to be an absolute fact.

a Canon SW's book says

Canon is indisputable fact in my mind.

Fixed.

'Canon' is acknowledged events in a fictional universe.

Like there were several Star Wars comic books released after the 1977 original that were contradicted by the next two movies in the OT. The comic books were no longer canon.

Disney whipped away all canon - Comic Books, Novels, Video Games, etc when they bought the property and acknowledged only the movies and Clone Wars were canon.

So you saying 'GEORGE LUCAS HAD LUKE DIE IN EP8! ITS CANON!' is hilarious.

I'm tempted to not tell you that and just allow you to sound... well like you don't even know the definition of canon... because you don't.

You're welcome.

Interestingly the movie the Looper guy made was the closest version of Lucas' script out of all the movies.

That's not 'canon' because not even Disney or Rian Johnson himself have claimed that.

<Lmaoo>

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I get it, we had words in the past... but nobody wants to listen to us bickering any more, (myself included) so I'm taking the first step & not firing back with insults.

[/b]"I happen to know that George didn't kill Luke until the end of [Episode] 9, after he trained Leia. Which is another thread that was never played upon [in The Last Jedi]."[/b]

'I happen to know' is at the beginning of people's sentences before they say something they know to be an absolute fact.

I'm sure that is what Mark was told at Celebration Six, Aug 2012 when he, Carrie & Harrison met with Lucas to discuss their involvement in the sequel... but the writing continued for months after that. LucasFilm was sold October 30, 2012. Mark was not a writer. he had a conversation with George at an early point in production & the writing continued after that.

'Canon' is acknowledged events in a fictional universe.

Like there were several Star Wars comic books released after the 1977 original that were contradicted by the next two movies in the OT. The comic books were no longer canon.

Disney whipped away all canon - Comic Books, Novels, Video Games, etc when they bought the property and acknowledged only the movies and Clone Wars were canon.

So you saying 'GEORGE LUCAS HAD LUKE DIE IN EP8! ITS CANON!' is hilarious.

Point taken that canon applies to the fictional universe... but real world things being presented in those books are considered facts. I guess what you're saying is that there's a possibility Pablo Hidalgo is lying that Lucas' intention was for Luke to die in ep. 8.

What's your take on "Not My Luke" being Lucas' creation?

All these people are saying it.

• Pablo Hidalgo head of the story group
• Christian Alzmann The artist who drew Not my Luke...
• Phil Szostak LucasFilms creative arts manager & Christian's supervisor

All 3 are saying "Not My Luke" came from Lucas... & it was even approved by Disney in Pablo's book. Obviously then since we know Mark talked with Lucas prior to the end of writing... it's pretty clear that Mark's character arc evolved after that conversation.

 

[Bob Gray]

I get it, we had words in the past... but nobody wants to listen to us bickering any more, (myself included) so I'm taking the first step & not firing back with insults.



I'm sure that is what Mark was told at Celebration Six, Aug 2012 when he, Carrie & Harrison met with Lucas to discuss their involvement in the sequel... but the writing continued for months after that. LucasFilm was sold October 30, 2012. Mark was not a writer. he had a conversation with George at an early point in production & the writing continued after that.



Point taken that canon applies to the fictional universe... but real world things being presented in those books are considered facts. I guess what you're saying is that there's a possibility Pablo Hidalgo is lying that Lucas' intention was for Luke to die in ep. 8.

What's your take on "Not My Luke" being Lucas' creation?

All these people are saying it.

• Pablo Hidalgo head of the story group
• Christian Alzmann The artist who drew Not my Luke...
• Phil Szostak LucasFilms creative arts manager & Christian's supervisor

All 3 are saying "Not My Luke" came from Lucas... & it was even approved by Disney in Pablo's book. Obviously then since we know Mark talked with Lucas prior to the end of writing... it's pretty clear that Mark's character arc evolved after that conversation.

"Not my Luke" is more than just being a hermit. It's been years and I know that we've gotten into it many times, but one thing I've told you more than once is it isn't what happened, it's how it happens.

You can make Luke a frustrated, bitter hermit, so long as you sell it with your script. That's not what happened.

Lucas originally wanted a darker ending for the original trilogy, with Luke leaving because the events scarred him. Seems like he was still planning on taking that route with the sequels. But that doesn't mean it was Lucas vision to have Luke think of killing his nephew and abandoning his friends, and family, when they needed him most.

For me, that's one of the biggest points that don't get mentioned. Aside from igniting his saber in Kylo's room, Luke knows that his nephew is strong with the force and is under the influence of the darkest, most insidious force in the galaxy. So he just.....leaves? Let's him fall to the dark side completely? Bitch, please.

 

[minute bull]

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Not to mention, Lucas had originally planned to end the series with Episode 3 prior his sequel treatment. The prospective sale to Disney meant that Lucas had to re-look at how the Skywalker-saga would continue and ultimately end, which we know originally included Luke dying in episode 9. Disney decided to go a different route, the wrong route, alienating long time fans, HEAVILY insinuating Luke considered killing Kylo as he slept. I think there was a happy medium of introducing new characters while simultaneously providing a heroic closure to the Skywalker name for all fans. This may have made it hard to continue with new Star Wars movies taking place after, but I think the sales/marketing etc would have looked completely different and the reaction by 'toxic' fans avoiding Solo and Rogue One would not have happened.

The Mandalorian, clone wars etc has only proven one thing, that Star Wars IS about the Skywalkers.

I guess when you're in a certain position you see different characters differently? Long post coming up. Just getting some ideas out so I can stop thinking about it.

Arthur Conan Doyle didn't see Sherlock Holmes as some sacred cultural symbol, he saw him as a kind of douchebag detective he dreamed up one day. So he killed him and tortured him and did a bunch of stuff the reading public made him take back. When you don't see something as beloved and other people do, it creates a wide gulf for creators I guess.

Rainy Johnson didn't think of Luke as a symbol (archetype) on par with Sherlock Holmes or King Arthur, but, the people who watched Star Wars movies learned about legends and myths at the same age they learned about Star Wars. Like these are our legends, Luke is our model "boy hero" archetype. Even though the Star Wars stories are new, they will persist for at least a few more generations and probably longer, if Holmes (and Superman) are any indication.

Grant Morrison used to say that when he wrote a run on a comic he thought of it as having a piece of art history in his hands that he would either "fuck up" or "get right." I think that's why he stays popular and fans of particular titles are (usually) happy when he comes on board. I think Favreau sees things in a similar way.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Interesting article here:

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

lol

At the beating heart of the film is a courageous mechanic Rose Tico, played by Vietnamese-American actress Kelly Marie Tran.

what this article fails to do at any point is acknowledge at any point that maybe just maybe the movies were just shit. as usual, if their agenda doesn't translate into a successful film well then racism/misogency/altrightism etc.

 

[minute bull]

what this article fails to do at any point is acknowledge at any point that maybe just maybe the movies were just shit.

NOPE. This isn't about the film.

If all you guys said was that it was bad that would be it, but no -- you made it more than that, acted like you did, and THAT'S what got push-back. You guys relished in shit behavior, got called out, and don't like it when you get the exact same treatment. Then you double-down, because backing down on a four year old movie would be more ridiculous than dying on its hill.

 

[Morning Star]

Interesting article here:

JFC so hating a garbage movie is now white supremacy. Couldn't possibly of had anything to do with the nonsensical story, boring pointless side stories, terrible humor, breaking of lore, or the shitting on beloved characters and minimalizing others. Typical lazy hack journalism.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

NOPE. This isn't about the film.

If all you guys said was that it was bad that would be it, but no -- you made it more than that, acted like you did, and THAT'S what got push-back. You guys relished in shit behavior, got called out, and don't like it when you get the exact same treatment. Then you double-down, because backing down on a four year old movie would be more ridiculous than dying on its hill.

No that's where YOU are wrong. It was called a shit movie from the start and YOU couldn't handle it and then carefully devised a conspiracy theory about how anyone who disagreed with your opinions were clearly racist or nazis. The facism rears its ugly head as per usual.

That whole article is written by someone who crafts their whole persona around social justice and as per usual, if you have a differing opinion, you're the problem.

 

[One MMA Fan]

JFC so hating a garbage movie is now white supremacy. Couldn't possibly of had anything to do with the nonsensical story, boring pointless side stories, terrible humor, breaking of lore, or the shitting on beloved characters and minimalizing others. Typical lazy hack journalism.

I feel that sometimes this is more then just disliking a movie and the article tried to show why on some occasions and have some sort of backing for their conclusions.