Star Wars Megathread

[ChickenBrother]

Midichlorians are an overall "energy potential" rating. Most people are capped off at say a AA Battery, where teh Jedi would be like a golf cart battery. Yoda, Sid & Anakin had a bigger battery than that. (A generator to power a warehouse for example.) Instead of making analogies like this, we can simply use numbers:

• Non-users = 2
• Talsin = 50
• Other Nightsisters = 500
  
• Maul = 1,000
  
• Sid = 5,000

I just pulled those figures out of my ass just now to serve as the example, so don't hold me to the numerical differencez. I'm just saying that the Midichlorian count is a method of measurement that puts numbers on force sensitivity thus making it easier to discuss.


I've never had the problem I see others have with midichlorians. Whatever teh name is though doesn't matter, we can discuss it in terms of "higher & lower force sensitivity" if that works better for you.

Talzin had more force than typical people who are oblivious to it... while having less force sensitivity than even the other night sisters... & obviously less than Maul & Maul less than Sid. That's all I was saying.


Sid picked Maul at 14 years old because of his struggle with anger.... & obviously his sensitivity to teh force was high (midichlorian count n stuff)

Sid visited Talzin's home many times while teh pre-teen Maul would hide in his bedroom from teh ominous guest. Talsin wanted to be Sid's apprentice... & Sid strung her along insisting that she would never be his apprentice unless she givez him her 14 year old son. EEK!!! ...then he never made her his apprentice anywayz... lol Sith gonna sith.


She definitely did make teh most of her inherent ability & attachment to Dathomir.

Her power in teh force may not had been as high, but she knew how to channel & direct teh "Ichor" (Green mist energy of Dathomir) through her... better than any of them. The higher end stuff Talsin did, could only be achieved on Dathomir... or if she had a mobile container to travel with, that she could draw upon for power. (In her fight with Windu... she lost the fight when her portable power container broke.)

Those with more force sensitivities could do their mystical stuff anywhere... & without a physical "power container."

Conversely, Talzin... while on Dathomir... could project teh green mist power (Ichor) to manipulate people on other planets, but teh power was not as strong as compared to if teh person were on Dathomir.


For sure Sid's political & strategic forward thinking would've brought him to power with or without his higher force sensitivity.

That said... what better tool to negotiate politics... than to be able to read someone'z mind~ To manipulate someone's mind~ and also to become the separatists leader through brute showing of force as Sidious thus being able to orchestrate teh war in teh prequelz by being teh leader of both politics & brute force. He used all his abilities to make that happen. It wasn't all politics.

This discussion remindz me of teh new Ahsoka with Sabine being a capable warrior, but hasn't yet tapped into her force sensitivity. She'll never be as capable as Ahsoka, but she can train to become more capable than she currently is... & maybe that givez her an edge over others who don't do such thingz.

By contrast Talzin was extremely powerful while on Dathomir, but needed Sid to awaken her force sensibilities so that she could better operate in any location.

I feel like we're going in circles but if I'm understanding your position, do you concur that prime Talzin on Dathomir vs. prime Sidious 1 v 1, without outside interference is a very close fight and could go either way?

I feel like this is analogous to Green Lantern (say Hal Jordan) vs. Superman. Jordan has no innate superpowers other than very high willpower, but his power ring allows him to perform magical shit with green "ichor" that rivals or even exceeds superman's powers. And if contested within the 24-hour charge time of Jordan's power ring, without kryptonite, without Superman allowed to use the color yellow (other than full exposure to yellow sun), you have a prime vs. prime battle of virtually unbeatable combatants. And I'm talking regular prime, not superman ODed on yellow sun nor Green Lantern with his ring charged to 325% capacity, which of course would swing the battle.

Let's not overlook that the "L" that Talzin took to Palps has many qualifications. It was Sidious, Grievous AND Dooku vs. Talzin and Maul, with the tide only turning when Dooku joined the fray. And Talzin sacrificed herself to save Maul. We've never seen Talzin vs. Sidious 1 v 1 and without those other factors, the outcome could have been different.

 

[Thrawn33]

Yeah. Especially since the movie was billed as a sequel, not a reboot.

But it's a total cop-out to just say "hey remember all that cool shit that happened 30 years ago? Well it's happening again!"

Ryan Johnson might have failed hard, but at least he attempted to make a new movie out of it. Abrams didn't even try in the force awakens, and then when he did try to make something new with rise of Skywalker, he failed even harder than Johnson did.

Yeah, "At Least You Tried" isn't an option for either, when dealing with a billion dollar franchise...

 

[Hog-train]

I've never had the problem I see others have with midichlorians. Whatever teh name is though doesn't matter, we can discuss it in terms of "higher & lower force sensitivity" if that works better for you.

Me too. Why does everyone have this huge problem with it? Midichlorians makes logical sense.

 

[GSP_37]

Spoiler

Yeah will be interesting to find out if Ahsoka entered the world between worlds by herself, or if someone (Anakin?) pulled her in to save her.

Kinda sucks that Marrok turned out to be a random can but given that he did, hopefully they just move on and don't bring him back 3 times like they did with Moff Gideon.

Ahsoka leaving Sabine is my one gripe with the episode. WTF. This was 5 minutes after Huyang advised them to stay together and Ahsoka and Sabine agreed with cheesy shit-eating grins. Ahsoka was 20 feet away and it would have been like those Russian team fights where as soon as one guy goes down, the other team gangs up on whoever is left and the fight is over 10 seconds later.

Spoiler

Ahsoka could have handed Shin her ass after telling Sabine to stand down and get out of her way.

 

[GSP_37]

Ahsoka should have used the force since she didn't have an oven mitt handy.

 

[ferrisjso]

Someone there should have spoken out about rebooting A New Hope being really lame.

The culture at that time was dominated by prequel hate. TFA was answering all the critiques laid out by that movement for example in Henry Plinketts videos. TFA was the ultimate product of that Gen X led movement ie not using CGI not focusing on world building etc(probably why mystery box Abrams got picked).

People abandoned that movement once they realized how stupidly nostaglic it was but it was there and it was strong in the early 2010s. People wanted to go back to "real Star Wars that felt like Star Wars".

 

[ChickenBrother]

Spoiler

Ahsoka could have handed Shin her ass after telling Sabine to stand down and get out of her way.

Spoiler

Yep. It was basically Sabine saying "I want some payback" and Ahsoka going along with it. She could easily have force pimp slap KO'ed Shin into a tree in 2 seconds, like she did 5 minutes later while fighting Baylan.

And Baylan could easily have force choked Sabine and taken the map. But that one makes sense since Baylan wanted Sabine to hand it over willingly, so he could flaunt keeping his word and dishing out the sick burn on Ahsoka.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

You know...now that there's another galaxy to have wacky adventures with.... Thrawn doesn't have to die to allow Palps to be the big bad in the ST Galaxy....

Great point. The only reason we felt like Thrawn had to go down waz because he wasn't around in 30ABY. However he could've just went back to teh Chiss in teh outer regionz... or went back to this new galaxy.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I feel like we're going in circles but if I'm understanding your position, do you concur that prime Talzin on Dathomir vs. prime Sidious 1 v 1, without outside interference is a very close fight and could go either way?

BUT... only ON DATHOMIR... would her power make her a formidable opponent for Sid. We're basically saying that Dathomir is teh power source that is formidable to Sid, as she was not as powerful without teh power of Dathomir. That's an important caveat. Though that caveat does not take away from what she waz while on Dathomirian soil.

She can have that power "outside of Dathomir" if she creates a container of Isha that she carries with her, but if that container is destroyed... she loses her advantage.

It's very easy to see how Sid couldn't count on her as an apprentice... that needz to travel teh galaxy.... but also easy to see why he chose to bombard her with re-reinforcements at his side, when he attacked her on Dathomir.

Both points are valid

I feel like this is analogous to Green Lantern (say Hal Jordan) vs. Superman. Jordan has no innate superpowers other than very high willpower, but his power ring allows him to perform magical shit with green "ichor" that rivals or even exceeds superman's powers. And if contested within the 24-hour charge time of Jordan's power ring, without kryptonite, without Superman allowed to use the color yellow (other than full exposure to yellow sun), you have a prime vs. prime battle of virtually unbeatable combatants. And I'm talking regular prime, not superman ODed on yellow sun nor Green Lantern with his ring charged to 325% capacity, which of course would swing the battle.

Great analogy. That's exactly my point. Her power can be taken away by simply removing an artifact. (if she's off-planet.)

Let's not overlook that the "L" that Talzin took to Palps has many qualifications. It was Sidious, Grievous AND Dooku vs. Talzin and Maul, with the tide only turning when Dooku joined the fray. And Talzin sacrificed herself to save Maul. We've never seen Talzin vs. Sidious 1 v 1 and without those other factors, the outcome could have been different.

I'll give you that the outcome may or may not had been different... in a head to head deathmatch of Talzin vs Sid. Your point is sound that Talzin waz one of... if not "the only" person... that Sid waz nervous about facing head to head... but only if that fight were to take place on Dathomirian soil.

We've never seen Talzin vs. Sidious.

Spoiler

While I got your attention... how about Merrik being a green mist? Seemz like someone called that in these chats.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Spoiler

Yeah will be interesting to find out if Ahsoka entered the world between worlds by herself, or if someone (Anakin?) pulled her in to save her.

Kinda sucks that Marrok turned out to be a random can but given that he did, hopefully they just move on and don't bring him back 3 times like they did with Moff Gideon.

Ahsoka leaving Sabine is my one gripe with the episode. WTF. This was 5 minutes after Huyang advised them to stay together and Ahsoka and Sabine agreed with cheesy shit-eating grins. Ahsoka was 20 feet away and it would have been like those Russian team fights where as soon as one guy goes down, the other team gangs up on whoever is left and the fight is over 10 seconds later.

Spoiler

I'm loving teh world between world's angle... but not loving teh way she got there. Atm... it looks like Merrick (Edit: "Jedi dude") killed her.

To your point, she could've morphed there herself, or perhaps Anakin pulled her out of teh physical to save her. Another possibility...

However it went down... I literally wiped a tear when she realized that Anakin ended up returning back to good.

• (Chickin Bro: "5 minutes after Huyang advised them to stay together and Ahsoka and Sabine agreed"

Well if Huyang said it... & teh Jedi & teh rightful owner of teh darksaber should've bent a knee?

I think there were enough unforeseen thingz that the 2 had to adapt to... to understand why they didn't follow through with Lord Huyang's "request." They both agreed wit teh premise. I'm surprised you brought this oop.

• Merrik's a green Ichor mist.

Deal with it~

Spoiler

Spoiler

Ahsoka could have handed Shin her ass after telling Sabine to stand down and get out of her way.

The more pressing matter of universal takeover by Thrawn... was something that Ahsoka & Wren understood.

They both understood they'd have to hold their own ground in combat when it came down to it. If nothing else, Wren would delay Shin so that Ahsoka could complete teh mission.

The mission was more important than either of their lives. Ahsoka has made that clear several times while talking about sacrificing Ezra's return.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Ahsoka should have used the force since she didn't have an oven mitt handy.

<Lmaoo><45><45><Lmaoo>

 

[ChickenBrother]

 

[ChickenBrother]

Spoiler

I'm loving teh world between world's angle... but not loving teh way she got there. Atm... it looks like Merrick killed her.

To your point, she could've morphed there herself, or perhaps Anakin pulled her out of teh physical to save her. Another possibility...

However it went down... I literally wiped a tear when she realized that Anakin ended up returning back to good.

• (Chickin Bro: "5 minutes after Huyang advised them to stay together and Ahsoka and Sabine agreed"

Well if Huyang said it... & teh Jedi & teh rightful owner of teh darksaber should've bent a knee?

I think there were enough unforeseen thingz that the 2 had to adapt to... to understand why they didn't follow through with Lord Huyang's "request." They both agreed wit teh premise. I'm surprised you brought this oop.

• Merrik's a green Ichor mist.

Deal with it~

Spoiler

The more pressing matter of universal takeover by Thrawn... was something that Ahsoka & Wren understood.

They both understood they'd have to hold their own ground in combat when it came down to it. If nothing else, Wren would delay Shin so that Ahsoka could complete teh mission.

The mission was more important than either of their lives. Ahsoka has made that clear several times while talking about sacrificing Ezra's return.

Spoiler

That's a valid interpretation but to make it work better, they should have had Ahsoka defeat Marrok in the distance, like far away on a hill so Ahsoka couldn't have easily turned her attention to Shin. As it was, she was like 20 feet away and easily could have besmirched Shin in 2 seconds flat (as she later did WHILE FIGHTING Baylan). Then Ahsoka and Sabine could have gone to the map together and double teamed Baylan. Ahsoka is a master now but this came off like the finale of AOTC when Obi Wan cautions Anakin to take Dooku together, but young Anakin charges in recklessly and gets both of their asses kicked.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

The culture at that time was dominated by prequel hate. TFA was answering all the critiques laid out by that movement for example in Henry Plinketts videos. TFA was the ultimate product of that Gen X led movement ie not using CGI not focusing on world building etc(probably why mystery box Abrams got picked).

People abandoned that movement once they realized how stupidly nostaglic it was but it was there and it was strong in the early 2010s. People wanted to go back to "real Star Wars that felt like Star Wars".

To be fair I think the Plinkett videos were mostly focused on pointing out faults in the prequels, they did not really focus on how they thought a SW film should be made. I think that cluture followed them with people like Chris Stuckman glorying in pointing out the most basic film making techniques because it sold well to the lowest common denominator.

I do think as you say though theres truth to the idea that TFA was less a SW sequel and more the child of that culture, not just from SW either but I think the Matrtix sequels as well were the idea of treating a property seriously with some depth to the setting/characters became a dirty word.

Really I think most of what makes the rest of the sequels bad is already there with TFA, the hiring of JJ Abrams was I think one of the single biggest mistakes in Hollywood in the last 20 years.

 

[ferrisjso]

I feel like we're going in circles but if I'm understanding your position, do you concur that prime Talzin on Dathomir vs. prime Sidious 1 v 1, without outside interference is a very close fight and could go either way?

I feel like this is analogous to Green Lantern (say Hal Jordan) vs. Superman. Jordan has no innate superpowers other than very high willpower, but his power ring allows him to perform magical shit with green "ichor" that rivals or even exceeds superman's powers. And if contested within the 24-hour charge time of Jordan's power ring, without kryptonite, without Superman allowed to use the color yellow (other than full exposure to yellow sun), you have a prime vs. prime battle of virtually unbeatable combatants. And I'm talking regular prime, not superman ODed on yellow sun nor Green Lantern with his ring charged to 325% capacity, which of course would swing the battle.

Let's not overlook that the "L" that Talzin took to Palps has many qualifications. It was Sidious, Grievous AND Dooku vs. Talzin and Maul, with the tide only turning when Dooku joined the fray. And Talzin sacrificed herself to save Maul. We've never seen Talzin vs. Sidious 1 v 1 and without those other factors, the outcome could have been different.

Important caveat Talzin had control of Dooku in the beginning. Dooku joins in the fight because Palpatine broke him out of Talzins control. Talzin was planning essentially Maul/Dooku v Sidious.

I remember reading that Palpatine discovered Maul because originally Talzin wanted to be Palpatines apprentice. This establishes that Talzin did not view herself as Palpatines equal at least back then.

Big issue is Talzins needs to possess someone else to fight Palpatine and all the people she could possess can't beat him.

Not to say Talzin is irelevant to Palpatine she could probably beat all of his apprentices except ROTS Vader. Maybe shes capable of beating him but think she needs luck.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Important caveat Talzin had control of Dooku in the beginning. Dooku joins in the fight because Palpatine broke him out of Talzins control. Talzin was planning essentially Maul/Dooku v Sidious.

I remember reading that Palpatine discovered Maul because originally Talzin wanted to be Palpatines apprentice. This establishes that Talzin did not view herself as Palpatines equal at least back then.

Big issue is Talzins needs to possess someone else to fight Palpatine and all the people she could possess can't beat him.

Not to say Talzin is irelevant to Palpatine she could probably beat all of his apprentices except ROTS Vader. Maybe shes capable of beating him but think she needs luck.

I think both Sidious and Talzin benefited by collaborating with each other but yeah, Sidious was the A-side at least initially. However, I don't see possessions, etc. as indicative of weakness on Talzin's part. She's a witch and witches gonna witchcraft. After she leaves Dooku's body, she was giving Palps all he could handle and had she taken Maul's life force, she might have won. Remember also that she gave up some of her life force to restore Maul's sanity.

Sidious is the favorite in any 1 v 1 match up in SW, but Talzin was one of the few who could give him a run for his money under the right circumstances.

Interesting factoid: Barbara Goodson, who voiced Talzin in Clone Wars also voiced Rita Repulsa in the original Power Rangers. I was half kidding in the other thread when I said Morgan Elsbeth has a Rita Repulsa vibe. But looks like the OG nightsister was literally the same person lol.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Spoiler

I let teh dark side fill me & make my eyes glow yellow with Ahsoka & Anakin during that scene. Then I made teh decision that I want to live this life... not resist it... & all of my dark side dissipated.

I'm now @Myrddin Wyllt teh White.

Spoiler

n stuff

 

[ferrisjso]

Here's something neat I learned a few days ago.

You know how the Inquisitors are ranked ,2nd sister,3rd sister etc? Well it turns out the 10th brother was actually an ex Jedi Master(Dibs) and I think the higher numbers actually suggest a higher not lower rank.

 

[GSP_37]

Here's something neat I learned a few days ago.

You know how the Inquisitors are ranked ,2nd sister,3rd sister etc? Well it turns out the 10th brother was actually an ex Jedi Master(Dibs) and I think the higher numbers actually suggest a higher not lower rank.

Didn't the Obi Wan TV show have the one main large rear end Inquisitor numbered and coveting a higher rank, I thought was a lower number?

 

[ferrisjso]

Didn't the Obi Wan TV show have the one main large rear end Inquisitor numbered and coveting a higher rank, I thought was a lower number?

Yeah I thought so too. But they all younglings and Padawans and the 10th was an actual Jedi Master. Maybe 10 is higher cause the 1 and the 0? I dunno. .

Can see the Grand Inquisitor being ranked above a weaker Jedi Master but younglings and Padawans?