1. We now have a new forum called Fantasy Matchup Discussion. Access it here

Sport jiu jitsu

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by legend killa, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. legend killa

    legend killa Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    northern cali
    Is sport bjj diluting the street aspect of the art?It seems now days there is a great deal of time spent on the sport aspect.You have guys making up moves that would get you killed on the street.And waht you do in training is gonna be the first thing you do on the street.
     
  2. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    11,351
    Likes Received:
    9,631
    Location:
    USA!USA!USA!
    First thing I would do is make sure I am not standing in lava and/or broken glass...

    ...then I would punch you the fuck out for making this stupid thread.
     
  3. lonewolf_454

    lonewolf_454 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    652
    Likes Received:
    1
    it's a valid thought. Sport BJJ isn't geared for MMA or streetfighting situations. Some schools tend to focus Sport BJJ others MMA or self-defense.

    Having said that, I think most guys who are well versed in "Sport" BJJ could still do very well in a street situation and would know better than to try and pull moves that put you in dangerous positions.
     
  4. Lester McGrath

    Lester McGrath Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vega Alta, Puerto Rico
    You don't always have the luxury of examining your sorroundings.

    Also, if time is not taken to practice grappling for self-defence, it could become as usefull as Olimpic TKD or sumo.
     
  5. hamoom

    hamoom Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Costa Mesa CA

    :eek:
     
  6. Lester McGrath

    Lester McGrath Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vega Alta, Puerto Rico
  7. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    11,351
    Likes Received:
    9,631
    Location:
    USA!USA!USA!
    Or spelling!
     
  8. Darwinist

    Darwinist Super Simian

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Messages:
    18,042
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Akureyri, Iceland
    Frankly, I don
     
  9. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    116
    I TRAIN TO KILL
     
  10. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    12,843
    Likes Received:
    1,091
    Your question is fair enough. However, I do have some major problems with the self-defense side of BJJ.

    A lot of people use sport BJJ to refer to the new school competition style and street BJJ to refer to the old school style taught by Helio, Rorian, etc. Street BJJ is thought of as keeping a tight closed guard to avoid strikes, controlling the arms during guard passing to avoid strikes, stalling a lot and waiting for the opponent ot make a mistake, etc. The problem is that this stuff is not street effective at all. In fact, I dare say that the faster paced sport BJJ is more effective.

    Despite what Helio says, BJJ was never developed for self-defense. The self-defense aspects of BJJ (see old Gracie Jiu-Jitsu tapes for old school self-defense techniques) would be better covered in a judo class. The main difference between BJJ and judo is the heavy focus on groundfighting. And such a heavy focus on groundfighting is not very practical for the street.

    Helio made his career out of winning vale tudo fights, not self-defense. He did this primarily by using his guard to tire out his opponents in marathon matches hours long. He would then force them to make a mistake and get a submission. Nowadays with time limits this strategy doesn't work anymore. Helio and his supporters say this waters down the self-defense aspect.

    How is it self-defense to fight someone 1v1 for hours, without any weapons, friends who jump in, or police to break it up? That is competition, not self-defense. Calling old school BJJ self-defense is a joke.

    Modern sport BJJ is actually more practical for self-defense, in my opinion. I say this because it is more active and focuses on attacking with a sweep or submission quickly rather than waiting for the opponent to give you an opportunity. In a self-defense situation, there simply isn't much time to do anything on the ground. Therefore I think the sport BJJ attitude is better.
     
  11. Darwinist

    Darwinist Super Simian

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Messages:
    18,042
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Akureyri, Iceland
    If we want to get into the whole "which is better" argument, I
     
  12. ColtonS

    ColtonS Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    British Columbia Canada
    lol!!
     
  13. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,441
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Joe's Garage
    i think balto's comments are right on the money. old school bjj , or maybe just the strategy of old school bjjers, is even further from street defense than modern, new school bjj. the bjj in mma, imo, is the best bjj has ever been for street defense. its much more aggressive and forces the submission, instead of advocating a lay and pray strategy from the bottom.

    that being said, i dont give a hot fuck about teh big bad streets. i do bjj for sport, fun, and maybe (someday) vale tudo.

    also, anything i would use on the streets i probably learned in my first 3 months in bjj. not that im not better at those things now, but i learned them in the first 3 months:

    1. double leg to knee on belly to controling him and waiting for help
    2. defending a takedown with a guillotine or sprawl.
    3. triangle, armbar from guard or any basic guard sweep

    no fancy x-guard, even tho i could probably set up the heelhook and twist an untrained person's knee off before they got a chance to punch me in the face.
     
  14. MTJJ_PuMpED

    MTJJ_PuMpED Guest

  15. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    11,351
    Likes Received:
    9,631
    Location:
    USA!USA!USA!
    Joker, why did you join my beloved BJJ class?
    To kill sir!
    So you're a killer?
    Yes, sir!
    Let me see yer war face.
    Sir?
    Your warface. WRAAAAAA! Now let me see your war face.
    Aaaaaaaaaa...
    You didn't scare me son, now work on it.
     
  16. Terrier

    Terrier Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    UK
    My class seems to be mostly sport BJJ based and I agress we do somemoves that would probably lead to you getting your head kicked in in the streets. Then again if you were dumb enough to try some of those moves in vale tudo/street fighting then you maybe deserve to get beaten down.

    It's common sence to know what is for sport only and what is for self defence/MMA
     
  17. black-jack-shalack

    black-jack-shalack Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    14,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hockey Town USA

    I disagree. Helio may have gained fame from valetudo fights but the art was developed on the streets of Brazil. He only had a couple valetudo fights. There weren't a lot of valetudo fights in rings etc.. back then. It was guys fighting in parkinglots, backyards, playgrounds, basketball courts etc... That is where the techniques were refined. Not in the handfull of valetudo fights Helio or any other Gracie had. Despite what people claim it was developed for the street and was devloped on the streets of Brazil. Not in a ring or a cage. Those things came much alter.
     
  18. ddk

    ddk White Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    any art you train in that doesnt involve guns or knives is sport, imo. that being said, i love sport bjj.
     
  19. infamous mattyd

    infamous mattyd Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Dirty Jersey
    I am a bouncer, and what was said about alcohol is right. I am a big guy, about 250lbs...ok fine 255lbs you happy, you fucking bastards!!!!???? but I digress... I will prob never be in a fight, and if I am i will do anything I can to run.(not at work of course, and there I have 7 other huge guys w/ my back) bjj does not negate a knife or gun and thise things can make their apperance quickly. please train for your health and fun and to make friends. plus bjj gives me an identity, it goes hand in hand w/ my law school identity. when people think of me they think fat law-student and crazy guy who likes wrestling that looks like gay sex. please people, ask mirada, street fights go bad quickly and should be avoided!
     
  20. 2om30

    2om30 Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    Messages:
    8,699
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Hawai'i
    There alot of moves that can be used from sport BJJ for the street. Of course you won't pull guard in a middle of a parking lot or a bar. It's up to the individual to use the intelligence to figure out what moves to keep and what to disregard, and adapt.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.