Spin/Stationary Bike Recommendations for HICT?

[anaconda]

I'm looking for a cheap bike to use for occasional LSD but, more frequently for HICT training (per Joel Jamieson).

If you guys don't know what it is, its basically cranking up the resistance and training at a slow pace continuously for time which causes several favorable adaptations and burns fat very well (according to him). Preferable method is versaclimber but that's expensive and huge.

So I'm looking for a decent bike to accomplish this. Most bikes now have magnetic resistance and I wanted to know if that will present any problems? Some bikes with magnetic resistance will slip when the resistance is too high.

Thanks for the help in advance!

 

[miaou]

By "accomplish this" do you mean burn fat? In other words, what are your goals with this?

And why wouldn't any stationary bike do?

 

[LegioTitan]

Man, I'd love to have a versaclimber. The one time I had access to one it was a quite enjoyable as far as machine conditioning goes.

Crazy expensive though.

 

[scoopj]

Get a road bike on craigslist along with a trainer. That will allow u to switch it up and keep it fresh.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

I can only do HICT on a legitimate spin bike (as in, a fairly expensive spin bike), and not just a normal stationary bike. I don't know any brand names, as I do not actually own one, and just use the gyms.

 

[scoopj]

This is what I have. Bought is second-hand but it was barely used.

 

[anaconda]

By "accomplish this" do you mean burn fat? In other words, what are your goals with this?

And why wouldn't any stationary bike do?

no i mean a bike which has high resistance settings which won't slip and is cheap.

A regular stationary bike is fine as long as the resistance can go up considerably.

 

[anaconda]

This is what I have. Bought is second-hand but it was barely used.

Can you set the resistance pretty high easily?

I would way rather spend the money on a road bike and have something like this to use at home too. Though then my wife won't be able to use it. I have a vintage road bike which I'm probably converting to fixie though.

edit: just saw that these things are as expensive as spin bikes! no thanks lol.

A spin bike would be better overall though since then my wife could use it too.

Here is one I saw on amazon for $200 (and ive seen similar ones on craigslist for cheaper):

http://www.amazon.com/Sunny-SF-B1001-Indoor-Cycling-Bike/dp/B003ZVHK04/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1366774721&sr=8-2&keywords=spin+bike

 

[miaou]

By "accomplish this" do you mean burn fat? In other words, what are your goals with this?

...

 

[anaconda]

...

I want something that I can use for LSD and also HICT training.

 

[miaou]

What are your goals?

 

[anaconda]

What are your goals?

better cardio...not sure what you're getting at here.

I train BJJ and compete, and am lifting twice a week.

I want to do more LSD in order to develop a better aerobic base. My base isn't bad but it could definitely be better (and I hate running).

I want to incorporate HICT in order to increase muscular endurance as well as fat loss. Also, people have mentioned that 1-2 sessions a week has helped them in terms of recovery.

 

[miaou]

I don't understand what you're not sure about.

You gave some info on HICT in the OP about it having several positive effects ("causes several favorable adaptations and burns fat very well") and I asked what your goals are for wanting to implement it because I want to know more about it. You subsequently went on to sort of ignore/avoid a simple and direct question, for whatever reason, so I asked again.

Your goals are pretty vague/general ("better cardio", "increase muscular endurance", "fat loss"). Given that you train BJJ, lift and do LSD, what do you expect to get out of HICT work that you're not already getting out of the previous three?

 

[anaconda]

I don't understand what you're not sure about.

You gave some info on HICT in the OP about it having several positive effects ("causes several favorable adaptations and burns fat very well") and I asked what your goals are for wanting to implement it because I want to know more about it. You subsequently went on to sort of ignore/avoid a simple and direct question, for whatever reason, so I asked again.

Your goals are pretty vague/general ("better cardio", "increase muscular endurance", "fat loss"). Given that you train BJJ, lift and do LSD, what do you expect to get out of HICT work that you're not already getting out of the previous three?

Ohhhh ok. Sorry I misunderstood the purpose of your question. Wasn't trying to be obtuse about it. Considering you're one of the more knowledgeable people on here I thought maybe you were going to tell me that I don't need to do HICT or something like that.

Here is some info which is what got me interested in it. A more scientifically minded person such as yourself can get more out of it too, most likely (this is all from Joel Jamieson):

If you want to burn fat like none other then get on a versaclimber, crank the resistance up as high as possible and go for 2 sets of 20 minutes keeping your heart rate in the 160s. Nothing will stimulate fat loss more than that because the high resistance will mean you're using a ton of fast twitch and slow twitch fibers and it's upper and lower body. Believe me it's brutally hard but it works. It will also improve your aerobic conditioning very effectively too. If you don't have access to a versaclimber you can use a spin bike with the resistance cranked way up so you're only able to manage 20-30rpm and accomplish the same thing but without the upper body's involvement.


Yes they are brutal but very effective. Keep your heart rate under your anaerobic threshold, which will be about 5-10bpm lower than it is when running. Essentially what you're accomplishing is the same thing as an interval but for much longer periods of time. One of the principle reasons intervals are effective is that the shorter higher intensity work recruits the fast twitch fibers but since it's high velocity they also fatigue quickly and you have to rest. The method I'm describing is such low frequency, i.e. low velocity, that you can do it for a long time and the fast twitch fibers are recruited because of the high resistance. It's a very effective method but yes it is not fun either. I'll call it HICT for high intensity continuous training or something like that, ha. Now if only I could get Tabata's marketing agent.

HICT is not targeting the heart so much as the muscles oxidative abilities themselves, specifially the fast twitch oxidative-glycolytic fibers to be exact. It's different than cardiac output work. Remember there is two sides to energy production, supply from the cardiovascular system and demand from the neuromuscular system. You need to develop both sides of the equation together in the right order and with the right methods to really improve your conditioning.

HICT will probably work the Type I fibers to some extent, but the purpose is more to improve how well the Type II Oxidative-Glycolytic fibers can use oxygen, i.e. to make them more oxidative. While this means they will have metabolic properties closer to the Type I fibers, that doesn't mean they actually transform into type I fibers.

From his book:

The HICT method is extremely effective and a method I would consider a "secret" simplybecause I have never seen it discussed in western literature before and I don't know of any other coaches writing about it or using it with their athletes. I first learned of it from a Russian coach named Val Nsedkin, one of the most knowledgeable coaches I've ever known, and I have used it with many athletes with tremendous success over the last 2-3 years.

This method is different from other forms of aerobic training in that it is both high intensity,and relatively high volume. This unique characteristic is also why itso effective. Whereas most aerobic training methods are either high intensity/ low volume intervals, or high volume/ low intensity continuous training, the high intensity continuous training method is high intensity based on resistance rather than speed and thus it allows for a higher volume of stimulus.
Because other high intensity methods are essentially highspeed intervals, you can only perform them for a limited amount of time before you fatigue and have to slow down. Generally, most high intensity intervals only last 10-60 seconds before there is a rest interval, but with the HICT method you intentionally go slow and use maximal resistance to prolong how long you're able
to maintain the high intensity. This is a huge difference and distinction and it makes it unlike any other commonly used aerobic training method.

The easiest way to use this method is with a spin bike that allows for high resistance. All you have to do is crank up the resistance as high as you can while maintaining a pace of just 20-3Orpm. This high resistance will force your fast twitch fibers, but the slow pace will mean you can maintain this work for much longer than traditional intervals. Because your heart rate is under the anaerobic threshold and there is adequate oxygen supply, this method is extremely
effective at increasing the aerobic abilities of your fast twitch fibers. The end result is that your fast twitch fibers can generate ATP for much longer before fatiguing.

Here's a video:

 

[miaou]

Thanks for posting those. Joel is a well-educated, experienced and accomplished S&C coach, and I respect and value his opinion.

Having said that, apparently this is not a protocol that has scientific backing (to my knowledge, it isn't studied in the literature), which is not to say it isn't effective, but which means scientific statements on how it works and what are the physiological adaptations is produces simply cannot be made. Assumptions/hypotheses? Yes. Confident scientific statements like the ones contained in the above quotes? No.

Statements like "Nothing will stimulate fat loss more than that because the high resistance will mean you're using a ton of fast twitch and slow twitch fibers and it's upper and lower body" are problematic, imo. For a person who already does some resistance training (and therefore already gets a significant anabolic stimuli for muscle retainment during weight loss), I don't see why this would be any more effective for fat loss than any other activity that burns similar amounts of calories (whether that is LSD, HIIT, threshold training, etc.).

Plus, if I understand this correctly, you are using an intensity level that allows your heart rate to remain bellow the anaerobic threshold and allows you to do hundreds of reps per set (when it comes to a spin bike, he suggests 20-30 rates per minute for a number of consecutive minutes). At this intensity level and at this speed of movement, I don't think it is reasonable to go ahead and assume that high-threshold MU recruitment is a given. If anything, HIIT would definitely recruit far more high-threshold MUs (i.e. many more fast twitch fibers), because the intensity and speed of movement are that much greater.


TL;DR: If Joel gave an anecdotal account along the lines of "I've used this on a number of athletes with great success" that would be absolutely fine in my book. Imo, he makes a number of unsupported (to my knowledge) scientific claims which he pretty much presents as facts. Not hatin', just commenting.

 

[anaconda]

Thanks for the input.

He does mention in several places that he has had success using this. And the reason its not cited (he claims) is due to the fact that it is more well documented in Russian and German sports science. He does state great anectdotal success. BTW most of those quotes were from the huge thread from 2008 (How to finally solve your conditioning problem). So its "old" info but he still uses it and advocates it now too so I'm assuming he still finds value in it.

If I find more info on it I'll be sure to share it with you.

In any case, LSD is also a big factor for me wanting to get a spin bike, and I will also need one with high resistance in order to do HIIT.

So back to the original question Any spin bike recommendations?

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- Hey TS, this is a good bike?

http://www.amazon.com/Sunny-Health-Fitness-Indoor-Cycling/dp/B002CVU2HG/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366898681&sr=8-1&keywords=spinning+bike

 

[DarceBrabo]

So back to the original question Any spin bike recommendations?

Just wanna re-ask this. Im currently in the market for a good spin bike myself, and definitely would appreciate the opinion from some of the more savvy guys here.

 

[anaconda]

- Hey TS, this is a good bike?

http://www.amazon.com/Sunny-Health-Fitness-Indoor-Cycling/dp/B002CVU2HG/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366898681&sr=8-1&keywords=spinning+bike

This is the one I'm leaning towards now if I end up buying new. It seems to be the best bang for the buck and has tons of good reviews.

However, I most likely will just get a higher end model used off of craigslist. I'd rather get a high end spin bike used for the same price (or cheaper). I can get commercial versions used for $350-500 but I'm not going to spend that much on a bike right now.

I'll prob get a high end personal use one on craigslist for $100-250 in the next couple of weeks unless someone has some better suggestions.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

This is the one I'm leaning towards now if I end up buying new. It seems to be the best bang for the buck and has tons of good reviews.

However, I most likely will just get a higher end model used off of craigslist. I'd rather get a high end spin bike used for the same price (or cheaper). I can get commercial versions used for $350-500 but I'm not going to spend that much on a bike right now.

I'll prob get a high end personal use one on craigslist for $100-250 in the next couple of weeks unless someone has some better suggestions.

- I've been thinking about getting one too.