Special Forces Influencers

[KnightTemplar]

Their job is to entertain, not inform. Unless you think they're spreading disinformation.

I don't follow any, but have some information from previous generations.

The SAS had a failed mission in the Gulf War. One of the men on it, using the nom de plume Andy McNab, wrote a book about it called Bravo Two Zero, which was the unit's call sign. Then another one of the men on the mission, using the nom de plume Chris Ryan, wrote his own book about it, The One That Got Away, significantly contradicting McNab's. McNab said Ryan was lying. Then another former SAS soldier, Michael Asher, researched the history of the mission and wrote his own book about it, The Real Bravo Two Zero, contradicting both McNab and Ryan. In turn they said he was lying. Later other soldiers who were on the mission and other people joined in, all accusing the others of lying like a big Royal Rumble. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There also was a book called the Nemesis File, writted by Paul Bruce (nom de plume), in which he described how he had killed 30-40 people in an SAS death squad in Ireland. I'm just going from memory, but I think he said they operated in the Republic as well as NI, and not only did they execute people supposedly involved with the PIRA (or similar groups), they also grew their hair out, dressed in civilian clothes and executed random Catholics they picked up in a fake taxi in Belfast, Shankill Butcher style. They didn't torture them like the SBs though, just shot them.

This book caused a big furore when it came out and the result of the investigation was supposedly that Bruce was in an ordinary regiment, REME I think, and failed SAS selection, and everything from SAS selection on in his book was just made up. However it's an open secret that there actually were SAS/SBS/MRF death squads in Ireland that operated similarly to what he described. So some people think he was telling the truth, and the 'investigation' was a whitewash. Most of the book is plausible, however here and there there are glaring errors, like mistaking the calibre of a gun, which no former soldier would make. So some say Bruce is a fantasist so far from reality he can't even get basic details right. Others that those errors were put there on purpose to discredit stories leaking out about SAS/etc. death squads.

Whatever the reason, it's completely accepted that the SAS/SBS/SRR ran death squads in Afghanistan that murdered large numbers of people. There's been at least one big documentary about it and I think some kind of investigation might still be ongoing. While their work in Ireland is still a bit taboo.

I also heard that Jean Charles de Menezes was killed by such a death squad. He was the person chased by armed men in plain clothes through the London Underground on 7/7 before being shot dead. He was an electrician who supposedly had done some work not long before on the bus that blew up in Tavistock Square. Officially it was the police who did it, however it is admitted that the SRR were peripherally involved. Notice also that originally it was reported that, by an unfortunate coincidence, the CCTV that would have recorded the moments running up to de Menezes's death, and the shooting itself, wasn't working. However, reassuringly after checking they reported that it was.

It was supposedly the same unit that killed the patsies for 7/7. They weren't on the vehicles that exploded, and when they realised that they were going to be framed, ran to Canary Wharf. Possibly hoping to get on a boat or ship? And were shot dead there.

The Nemesis File is a complete work of fiction. No soldier who served in Northern Ireland, much less with Special Forces, would have thought it real for even a moment. There were no, "death squads", in the sense of SAS soldiers being sent out with specific orders to kill IRA terrorists. When an SAS unit was tasked, it's job was to kill or capture the terrorists during the operation. However, the SAS are some of the best trained and most aggressive soldiers in the world. IRA, INLA etc terrorists would, if they were lucky, be given just one chance to surrender. Any terrorist who didn't immediately throw down their weapon and raise their hands could expect no mercy. The SAS themselves described this as,

"Big boy's games, big boy's rules".

Of course, there were many SAS operations where terrorists were captured and handed over alive to the RUC(civilian police).

The MRF was the forerunner of specialist units like 14 Intelligence Company and the SRR. The MRF, unlike true Special Forces Units, did not have a tough Selection Course to weed out unsuitable candidates, and many MRF soldiers were poorly trained and ill-disciplined. Which led to it being disbanded after a number of failed operations that saw both Catholic civilians and soldiers from the unit killed. The units that replaced the MRF, the 14 Intelligence Company, aka, "The Det" and latterly the SRR, set very high standards for recruitment and training. Indeed, all recruits for UKSF now undergo exactly the same Selection course, and only if they pass are they allowed to choose which unit they join: SAS, SBS or SRR.

In practice, most recruits for the SAS come from the Army's elite Parachute Regiment, while the SBS is almost entirely made up of the Royal Marines, who's standards are at least as high as the Paras. This leads to a great deal of competition between the two units, and mutual dislike. The SAS regard the SBS as not being aggressive enough. The SBS view the SAS as being arrogant prima donas with itchy trigger fingers. This rivalry can be traced back at least as far as the Falklands War, when a tragic friendly fire incident resulted in an SAS patrol killing an SBS operator.

Regarding the tragic killing of JCDM: I've spoken to serving police officers who personally knew those involved: de Menezes was killed by a police officer, a member of the Met's elite CO19(Armed Response)Unit. There was an SRR soldier involved: he was carrying out covert observation of a block of flats linked to one of the people wanted in connection with the 7/22 attempted bombings. He was urinating into a bottle, and when JCDM left the building, he was unable to get a clear look at his face. He radioed Gold Command at the Met and told them JCM might be one of the wanted terrorists, but he couldn't be sure. Poor communication with the CO19 coppers on the ground led to them believing JCDM was a suicide bomber and shooting him multiple times in the head at point blank range.

 

[650lb Sumo]

The Nemesis File is a complete work of fiction. No soldier who served in Northern Ireland, much less with Special Forces, would have thought it real for even a moment. There were no, "death squads", in the sense of SAS soldiers being sent out with specific orders to kill IRA terrorists. When an SAS unit was tasked, it's job was to kill or capture the terrorists during the operation. However, the SAS are some of the best trained and most aggressive soldiers in the world. IRA, INLA etc terrorists would, if they were lucky, be given just one chance to surrender. Any terrorist who didn't immediately throw down their weapon and raise their hand could expect no mercy. The SAS themselves described this as,

"Big boy's games, big boy's rules".

Of course, there were many SAS operations where terrorists were captured and handed over alive.

The MRF was the forerunner of specialist units like 14 Intelligence Company and the SRR. The MRF, unlike true Special Forces Units, did not have a tough Selection Course to weed out unsuitable candidates, and many MRF soldiers were poorly trained and ill-disciplined. Which led to it being disbanded after a number of failed operations that saw both Catholic civilians and soldiers from the unit killed. The units that replaced the MRF, the 14 Intelligence Company, aka, "The Det" and latterly the SRR, set very high standards for recruitment and training. Indeed, all recruits for UKSF now undergo exactly the same Selection course, and only if they pass are they allowed to choose which unit they join: SAS, SBS or SRR.

In practice, most recruits for the SAS come from the Army's elite Parachute Regiment, while the SBS is almost entirely made up of the Royal Marines, who's standards are at least as high as the Paras. This leads to a great deal of competition between the two units, and mutual dislike. The SAS regard the SBS as not being aggressive enough. The SBS view the SAS as being arrogant prima donas with itchy trigger fingers. This rivalry can be traced back at least as far as the Falklands War, when a tragic friendly fire incident resulted in an SAS patrol killing an SBS operator.

Regarding the tragic killing of JCDM: I've spoken to serving police officers who personally knew those involved: de Menezes was killed by a police officer, a member of the Met's elite CO19(Armed Response)Unit. There was an SRR soldier involved: he was carrying out covert observation of a block of flats linked to one of the 7/22 attempted bombings. He was urinating into a bottle, and when JCDM left the building, he was unable to get a clear look at his face. He radioed Gold Command at the Met and told them JCM might be one of the wanted terrorists, but he couldn't be sure. Poor communication with the CO19 coppers on the ground led to them believing JCDM was a suicide bomber and shooting him multiple times in the head at point blank range.

Well as usual I don't agree with everything you've said, however thanks for the info, you seem to know a lot about this area.

They changed the special forces a bit, it used to be only Marines could join the SBS, and it was under Navy control (via the Marines), but now anyone (from the British military) can join, and the special forces are under joint command. Of course joint commands tend to be dominated to some degree by the Army. SAS and SBS selection used to be separate as well, but it's mostly unified now as you say. Not completely though I don't think. As the military gets smaller and smaller more and more things are done collectively. The Navy, Army and RAF used to have separate dog training schools for instance, but they shut the Navy and RAF ones in the mid 90s.

I've gone back and corrected my OP, as indeed de Menezes was killed on 22/7/2005, the day after the failed bombings of 21/7/2005, which were a fortnight after the main event. Like I said my post was from memory, so there'll be the odd little error here and there. But obviously anyone can look this stuff up.

Spoiler: Media

Link to The Nemesis File https://z-libdotgs/dl/25633650/03f2a4 (change DOT to a full stop)
Panorama documentary establishing that elements of the British Government cooperated with Loyalist Paramilitary death squads:

 

[crabmeat]

I don’t really listen to Jocko or Goggins anymore, and Tim Kennedy has lost some credibility for me, though I did enjoy his book... it was a good read.

Former Delta Force Operator John "Shrek" McPhee, also known as the Sheriff of Baghdad, is supposed to be the real deal.

The few podcasts I have heard him on, he tells some wild stories, but apparently, he’s a wild dude.

Shawn Ryan seems cool. He doesn’t try to hype himself up as a badass, despite being a former Navy SEAL and CIA contractor.

Soldiers from the SF community are going after SGM McPhee, too.

 

[650lb Sumo]

Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but I do vaguely remember something about the SAS saying the SBS weren't up their standards, on land missions, and the SBS were sent on land missions, either by themselves or with the SAS, as in theory they are there for water missions, but there weren't enough. So better send them on something that's secondary for them, than have them sit twiddling their thumbs and burning money. And this was part of the reason for allowing anyone to apply for the SBS and putting SF under joint command.

This gets into the point of the Marines. Originally there were no marines, and sailors did all that. Then as technology progressed, ships got bigger and sailed further for longer and so on, countries acquired overseas empires, they decided it would be better to have sword/musket/go and fight on land specialists on board the ships. Then technology progressed further and they were made almost obsolete. But instead of closing them down, or reducing their size greatly, they were kept but their job was changed.

When the British armed forces were really big, in WW2, all three had commandos. As the armed forces were shrunk it was decided the Marines would be the only commandos - the other forces lost theirs*. So the Marines exist as basically a small, elite second army. 95% of the time their job has nothing to do with the sea and could/should be done by the Army. [Edit: I feel I implied here that ground combat having something to do with the sea should be done by the Marines. But it generally shouldn't, it should be done by the Army.] Some of it could be done by sailors. They also have sappers and stuff, people who need lots of specialist equipment and training, provided by the Army. It's a bit of a silly set up, although the Marines are very good and people like them. They are being 'streamlined' and nudged back to a slightly more maritime role now though.

* = technically some people who are not from the Marines but work with them are also commandos.

 

[rocketskates]

See that all the time too.
“ oh you’re not a SWAT? Jump Out Boy, task force this or that officer? Your opinion is invalid

Also police side is also chock full of “experts” with very little background. Taken a bunch of classes with a lot of different trainers who had very little street time and a lot of command staff time, who talked a big game but their actual work and resume don’t back it up.

I’m nothing special on the PD side just 15 plus years as a patrol cop.

Former Marine and 17 year cop here. I’ve worked patrol, investigations and crimes against children; you’ll likely agree with me on this—-but the best cops are the ones who are good at talking to people.

I’ve known several cops who could talk a guy off a ledge but also take that same guy down within seconds if he broke bad and decided he wanted to take someone with him. The most chill cops are usually the most squared away and capable of violence to defend themselves or innocent people.

Same goes for the military guys that I served with. The laid back ones were always the ones you depended on when it hit the fan. Ran into a few MARSOC (still Recon at the time, yes I’m old) guys in Iraq and they were really chill.

 

[Dalarna3]

While needing war heroes is natural, it seems like it's gotten oversaturated with grifters.

 

[Kardashians]

I’d rather watch those guys than some dudes giving make up tutorials all things considered. Sometimes the algorithm is a cruel master.

The fuck are you checking out bruh? Never had a man applying makeup on my YouTube algorithm

Now, fat disgusting bitches on the other hand . . .

 

[Rawex]

The fuck are you checking out bruh? Never had a man applying makeup on my YouTube algorithm

Now, fat disgusting bitches on the other hand . . .

@lsa

 

[Kardashians]

@lsa

Stop trying to mess up my algorithm bro

 

[Rawex]

Stop trying to mess up my algorithm bro

 

[KnightTemplar]

Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but I do vaguely remember something about the SAS saying the SBS weren't up their standards, on land missions, and the SBS were sent on land missions, either by themselves or with the SAS, as in theory they are there for water missions, but there weren't enough. So better send them on something that's secondary for them, than have them sit twiddling their thumbs and burning money. And this was part of the reason for allowing anyone to apply for the SBS and putting SF under joint command.

This gets into the point of the Marines. Originally there were no marines, and sailors did all that. Then as technology progressed, ships got bigger and sailed further for longer and so on, countries acquired overseas empires, they decided it would be better to have sword/musket/go and fight on land specialists on board the ships. Then technology progressed further and they were made almost obsolete. But instead of closing them down, or reducing their size greatly, they were kept but their job was changed.

When the British armed forces were really big, in WW2, all three had commandos. In fact the SAS started off in the RAF, that's why they're called Air Service and have squadrons etc. As the armed forces were shrunk it was decided the Marines would be the only commandos - the other forces lost theirs*. So the Marines exist as basically a small, elite second army. 95% of the time their job has nothing to do with the sea and could/should be done by the Army. Some of it could be done by sailors. They also have sappers and stuff, people who need lots of specialist equipment and training, provided by the Army. It's a bit of a silly set up, although the Marines are very good and people like them. They are being 'streamlined' and nudged back to a slightly more maritime role now though.

* = technically some people who are not from the Marines but work with them are also commandos.

The SAS were formed in North Africa, in July 1941, by David Stirling, a Brigade of Guards officer. They were originally called, "L Detachment, SAS Bigrade". This was misinformation, designed to make the Germans think there was an entire SAS Brigade instead of a relatively small force. There was no direct RAF involvement. The Original SAS worked very closely with the Long Range Desert Group, another elite Army unit.

The Royal Air Force did have it's own Commando units, an interesting bunch of chaps who were highly trained ground crew. Their role was to refuel and rearm aircraft while also holding ground in hostile territory. Like many special forces units, including the SAS themselves, the RAF Commandos were disbanded at the end of WWII.

There is extreme tension between the SAS and SBS at the moment, with the SAS accusing the SBS of cowardice and the SBS alleging the SAS committed war crimes in Afghanistan, up to and including the murder of unarmed civilians. One SAS veteran has said he has never seen the relationship between the two elite units be so bad.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Soldiers from the SF community are going after SGM McPhee, too.

- Who is that? Why several of those guys are CT?
Or police podcasts here are full of cts

 

[650lb Sumo]

The SAS were formed in North Africa, in July 1941, by David Stirling, a Brigade of Guards officer. They were originally called, "L Detachment, SAS Bigrade". This was misinformation, designed to make the Germans think there was an entire SAS Brigade instead of a relatively small force. There was no direct RAF involvement. The Original SAS worked very closely with the Long Range Desert Group, another elite Army unit.

The Royal Air Force did have it's own Commando units, an interesting bunch of chaps who were highly trained ground crew. Their role was to refuel and rearm aircraft while also holding ground in hostile territory. Like many special forces units, including the SAS themselves, the RAF Commandos were disbanded at the end of WWII.

There is extreme tension between the SAS and SBS at the moment, with the SAS accusing the SBS of cowardice and the SBS alleging the SAS committed war crimes in Afghanistan, up to and including the murder of unarmed civilians. One SAS veteran has said he has never seen the relationship between the two elite units be so bad.

Yeah I was conflating different groups there wrt the SAS.

Interesting!

 

[shadowmanifold]

I would never have lasted a week in the military but I really like Shawn Ryan's podcast. His interview style is just really chill. Jocko podcast I am just bored of. It is just a bit too over the top if not a former "team guy".
Pete Hegseth on Shawn Ryan was really interesting. I would have had no idea who he was when seeing him in the news right now otherwise but thought he seemed great.

 

[FyrFytr998]

The fuck are you checking out bruh? Never had a man applying makeup on my YouTube algorithm

Now, fat disgusting bitches on the other hand . . .

Like I told the other dude. Hazards of teenage daughters using your account on the TV.

 

[Kardashians]

Like I told the other dude. Hazards of teenage daughters using your account on the TV.

Lmao. Fair enough. You gotta get your daughters in order tho. What is this sissy shit? Blegh.

 

[Bia]

Soldiers from the SF community are going after SGM McPhee, too.

Must be the jealous SEALs, he bagged them in every interview

 

[crabmeat]

- Who is that? Why several of those guys are CT?
Or police podcasts here are full of cts

Must be the jealous SEALs, he bagged them in every interview

Nah, these are soldiers, mostly Green Berets.

Their whole thing is complaining about McPhee not calling out Kennedy. McPhee was one of Kennedy's SNCO's at a point in time. These were during some periods where Kennedy made purported bs claims/stories.

Also, they claim must be profiting off of Kennedy due to this. Their argument is when he appeared on Rogan's and Ryan's show (a very short period after Kennedy's appearances) he just said good things about Kennedy, nor called out his bs during the shows.

Then, there's the complaints about methods McPhee used for interrogation.

 

[pugilistico]

This guys channel is alright,he calls out the bs of “influencers” like Tim “50 grenades” Kennedy or the Mcphees that claims he walked through multiple taliban checkpoints by acting retarded (his words not mine),don’t know how true that one is nor do I care.

This embarrassing beef should not be online but when Tim has guys in his own company calling him out for complete phony bs to sell his books,it’s telling.

He can tighten up his videos but he seems more balanced. Definitely does not seem like to SEALs though haha. His video on the John Chapman MoH scandal came up. That is a travesty and the SEALs and Navy should be ashamed if it is true.

I don't mind the idea of US special ops guys cleaning up cartel members but I wonder if it'll actually solve the issue. I'm sure we'll get ex operators making podcasts of that eventually.